Question about the Great Schism

[Hesychios]

Hi gary,

If Millions of Catholics are convinced the consecration of Russia is something that need be done. …

The problem is the highest authority of your church has already stated that the consecration has been done. I read somewhere that it was actually done twice.

So what millions of Catholics may think doesn’t mean very much, some people will probably never be satisfied regardless of how many times it has actually been done.

As for how the Orthodox feel about it, offended or not the deed was already done.

Personally, I don’t believe in the consecration, so I don’t care how many times such a thing might be attempted. What would bother me is that a large Orthodox population is regard by some Roman Catholics as a legitimate target for conversion, and that is still an element of this whole ‘consecration of Russia’ movement, at least from the lay perspective.

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Michael,

Personally, I don’t believe in the consecration, so I don’t care how many times such a thing might be attempted. What would bother me is that a large Orthodox population is regard by some Roman Catholics as a legitimate target for conversion, and that is still an element of this whole ‘consecration of Russia’ movement, at least from the lay perspective.

I imagine some Catholics (especially Latins) might think that the consecration was not done because most Christians in Russia are not yet in communion with Rome. I agree with you that some Catholics probably (and wrongly) view the consecration as a tool for proselytization of EO in Russia.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Andrew,

Only the Latin church is autocephalus.

Not true. Only the Catholic Church herself is autocephalous. The Latin CC is autonomous in relation to the one Catholic Church.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[GaryTaylor]

Hi gary, The problem is the highest authority of your church has already stated that the consecration has been done. I read somewhere that it was actually done twice.

So what millions of Catholics may think doesn’t mean very much, some people will probably never be satisfied regardless of how many times it has actually been done.

As for how the Orthodox feel about it, offended or not the deed was already done.

Personally, I don’t believe in the consecration, so I don’t care how many times such a thing might be attempted. What would bother me is that a large Orthodox population is regard by some Roman Catholics as a legitimate target for conversion, and that is still an element of this whole ‘consecration of Russia’ movement, at least from the lay perspective.

I could understand why you would feel bothered.

The consecration has never been done specially as requested. Russia itself as instructed was never mentioned alone. Nor in public with all the Bishops. I’m pretty sure they’d be satisfied with that.

What I’m hearing from listening to JP-II and Benedict is there willingness to do what the majority ask for. Geez I looked at all the organizations, there’s literally millions that without a doubt are convinced of this. But I also undestand the Popes position. Thats one humble fellow from my experience listening to him. I don’t believe unless there is a open door opportunty for him do something like that he would go against the will of the EO or the government their. That I just don’t see as the right thing to do anyway as a Catholic. And here is an area where many insist it should be done anyway. I don’t agree.

And as to anyone in the EO believing in this whole situation or not. Really thats not the issue nor I don’t believe their was any requirement for that. Hey if one finds truth there fine. If not thats understandable. What is needed is for the Catholics to do it. And for them to be able to do what they feel they need to for mankind. Its the right to be able to worship as one choose’s. Not so easily done in this day and age in some countrys.

If nothing happens then theres no harm done. If World Peace occurs then conversion at that point isn’t even an issue?

God Bless, Gary

 

[GaryTaylor]

Dear brother Michael,

I imagine some Catholics (especially Latins) might think that the consecration was not done because most Christians in Russia are not yet in communion with Rome. I agree with you that some Catholics probably (and wrongly) view the consecration as a tool for proselytization of EO in Russia.

Blessings,
Marduk

I posted on this thread JP-II comments at Our Lady of Fatima to the Sister “after” the consecration at Fatima in the 80’s. They clearly indictate he knew the consecration wasn’t done as instructed. Aside from the fact that in two personal interviews with the Sister she has stated in person it wasn’t completed as instructed but more importantly wasn’t accepted. The actual fact of what has been done are a known.

Card. Bertone back then made a statement speaking for the Sister claiming the consecration had been done. No Pope has ever officially claimed its completed. On the contrary in 2010 Benedict specifically said this isn’t over. Also as I mentioned the exact instructions were to consecrate Russia in public by name, with all the Bishops of the CC. As far as what has been done, these are the small acts with reverence the CC has been able to provide.

Simple, God said…Bring me unblemished sacrifice. And thats what was required in the OT. Not, let me see what I can come up with for you God. As a result not once but twice the Temple was destroyed for not following Gods instructions. Here we come to an exact situation thats repeated time and time again in Biblical History.

The legal aspects of the treatment of Catholics in Russia is under protest by the Vatican today. BTW, Here I’m not really trying to dialogue about Fatima. Not my point.

My point is the CC being able to do as they please as a Religion as any other Religion is able to do world wide in particular Russia. With at the time, the Patriarch of Russia calling the Catholic movement an “Invasion of Russia” is it really any wonder the Catholic Church has been, well, “acting Christian” about the situation and being diplomatic?

You have a leader of Russia today who claims he’s a Christian. He attends the EO Vladimir Putin and claims a religious awakening? Fact is he belonged to the Communist Party before 91. Communism hasn’t gone anywhere. There is no social or political reform in Russia, its all cosmetic. And in the material world of the West we pay little attention to it, feel its not the main issue today, or with the infallable US …it doesn’t matter because we have everything under control. While we literally spend Trillions on Government Defense. The change in name title with Putin is Independent now btw.

Where do Catholic’s Invade? Where is Evangelism practiced? They help the poor, hungry, homeless, and needy. And its no different that what their cause would be in Russia. Catholic Services would be immediately be initiated and outreach programs set-up. Thats what Catholics do and have been doing for centurys. They help people.

Defining Russia is another topic we have heard the opionions on this thread as to social/political situation. Problem is they still are a nuclear power who is promoting war with nuclear assitance to Islamic countries. Nothing different to what they have done against the US since what Korea, Cuba, Viet-nam, Iran etc? There play with Red China is well documented. A country with 1000 Nuclear warheards which could be directed at the US an fired under 10-minutes. One anywhere is enough to set off world war. We came within 10-minutes of being in WW-III with Russia in 95 when Norway sent a US Rocket over Russian Air Space. Within 2-minutes the Nuclear warheads were aimed at all major US cities.

To conclude this is millions of Catholics who believe this has to happen. When you take the Confraternity of the Rosary, Fatima, the Blue Army, all the Fathers such as the Dominican Fathers and the Sisters, then those who are the followers? No need to underestimate the truth of the magnitude the situation its apparent! The President of Catholic Doctrine just spoke on this. Gregory Hesse, Doctor of Divinity and Canon Law, and was prime minister of Austria. Made several recent comments on this topic. Rabbi Shiller of Israel commented on the error of not following the instruction to the letter of Fatima could literally mean National or International disaster.

No my friend this isn’t some passing fad. Its over half the Catholic Population, and considering of the other half 1/4 are not even aware of the reality and sleepwalking? I’d say theres a problem that needs to be resolved.

Problem is not Fatima or those who believe or follow.

Its the situation of the CC and the EO to be able to work as Christians for mankind. To work together to bring the NT to a reality. And no-one is asking anyone to convert to anything. We expect the same christian hospitality which we show everyone one else worldwide.

Its one thing to say, well we don’t want to be in Communion with the CC. Understandable, ashame, but no issue. Its a completely another situation and in total contrast in opposition to the Catholic Church desire for freedom within a majority EO country. And theres a zero ability to work together as Christians here? Truth be told that is what is happening. A paranoia about the “Change of Heart” of EO christians should the CC develope in Russia? Thats what I see and hear. In the Bible this is exactly what Christ spoke on with religion.

The recent comment by this Pope on this topic? “If time permits and Gods willing.”

God Bless, Gary

 

[GaryTaylor]

Morning my friend, your thoughts? No… we are talking Facts here. Do you have any facts contrary to what I posted?

And you know this is without even going back to the Catholic Moritorium in Russia. Which I dialogued on completely in this thread.

God Bless, Gary

 

[GaryTaylor]

Again you seem to want to relate to your feelings and opinions. I’m talking about the exact situation with the CC and EO in regards to Russia. All of which is documented fact.

What you think will help the situation? I have no clue. What I think will help the situation is honest truth in regards to the current documented situation.

When you say I seemed to elevate Fatima? How so? Again these are the simple facts available to anyone today.

My brother so far your talking but not saying anything.

God Bless, Gary

 

[GaryTaylor]

Brother you keep saying I think, I think, I think. Prosleytising? No I am pointing out documented Catholic facts in current news.

The fears and feelings of the EO as far as prosleytising is well documented. Its even on Wikipedia.

What does it have to do with the current situation the CC is forced into today by Russia. Obviously a great deal.

Little to do with theology and Cold War? No the dates are mid 90’s and above. To the recent Iran situation. If you re-read what is pointed out is its pretty much the same situation as it has been in history. There is no social or political reform in Russia. Its a facade an image. Continued into today. I mentioned earlier a few books and comments on this …did you read this thread?

I see you want to pick and chose what you again you “think” might be error. But are presenting no facts?

And as far as better off quiet? No thats not my theory. But I could understand if you desire to follow that path.

I already see a circular conversation here and a waste of my time. Do you have some facts you can relate to? This is what I’m talking about. Not what people think about Fatima, which btw your opinion is also noted, not what people think about the CC situation in Russia. Not what we think about the government in Russia. All thats well and fine.

It comes down to what we know is happening today in the church and in the world. And openly talking about it to build this better world. Which btw I have been hearing about for- ever. Again while Trillions are spend yearly on War.

Your doing a great job with misdirection and avoiding the facts. A conversation which I have no desire to continue without facts. I get you “opinion” I understand it. I clearly understand Michaels.

My point has nothing to do with communion, I would love to see it but won’t live to. It has everything to do with religious freedom of the CC which also as I stated is protested today by the Vatican in regards to Russia. Has everything to do with why a schism still exists.

The title of this post is Question’s on the Schism. Not ecumenism and communion. From where I sit this is the issue right now.

The situation with Fatima unfortunately isn’t going away. It doesn’t matter if its required belief, doctrine, depost of faith etc…Its growing, it exists. It plays into the schism for “fear” of converstion by the EO…“fear”. Again feelings we are talking here about, feelings.

God Bless, Gary

 

[GaryTaylor]

Let me speak a bit more objectively on this without offending anyone. (name removed by moderator) btw so were all on the same page I do respect his opinion and we have collaberated on several threads I admire his position.

Nonetheless the Catholic Church in its ex-cathedra proclaimations by the Pope. Have a set a standard for those who follow the Faith. The situation with the BVM is historic fact.

Now when we add todays teaching within the church, for example you or I attend the CC and at some point we are involved in “giving” to the church or the Sisters, or Fathers of Dominicans, or Oblites, Charity or whatever. Well in return you know they send you Thank-You notes and general information which is going on.

What “is” going is the teaching of the children growing up Catholic, they are taught at a world level about the BVM, be it by book, DVDs etc. And all the topics come up like Guadalupe, Lourdes, Fatima are all constants, this is aside from the teachings of the BVM. And of course the Church Mass, Holy days of Obligation and RCIA itself.

In esssense the message of Our Lady and the Church is promoted World Wide constantly. Its not going to stop, its not going away, nor is the Church as after 2000-years we can take note on.

So while I do see so many possiblities to that which can no doubt can be changed. This here I see no chance of happening. At least in the immediate future. Time is the only resolve to the situation. And thats up to God. Unless of course we can consecrate Russia “TODAY”. Then there is immediate HOPE.

These followers believe in the “End” the Holy Father will consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Truth be told those are the BVM words to Sr Lucy. In weight of what has come true by this Sister relating the words of Mary. They in the Vatican are left with but one solution. And its the one they took. And thats not to mention Russia in a public consecration to offend the social/political and religious situation of the ROC. Matter of fact JP-II was advised before the Consecration of the World at Fatima not to mention Russia. Which is why the Post Conversation occured with the Pope and the Sister. The Sister has “no choice” but to pass on the Truth as she received it. But at the same time is bound by obedience as a vow. In much the same way a Pope is bound by Moral judgement in Gods eye. He cannot create a War by a wanton act with this consecration. Though he can just do this today if he so desired. But Moral obligation has to be considered and that is the sanctity of LIFE.

They don’t know when this will be done or how much disaster and chaos will continue in the meantime. And until its done all these followers are convinced the chaos, war and violence will continue and grow. Whats self apparent is just mans history of War just in the last Century. Its impossible, impossible to put an effective defense together for the social reform of Russia or mans evolution in general. When last year they were threatening the USA with violence in the interference with Russia/Iran Nuclear situation. Never mind back any further. To say, Geez they are looking a little like the USA over there today? Thats saying what? We have a mess in our own backyard. We as Christians need to focus also on this. I see an effort by all believe it or not to do this in the US, and yes with the Protestants also.

The arguement arrises’s also that well the ROC or CC has already done this in Russia as Christians. And thats noted and admirable. These followers in the CC have instruction from God to do this in a specific way? They just want to get it done according to His word through Mary who in truth is interceding. Can Mary interceed for God? Its pretty well documented in History. To say Vladimir had a Religious awakening and believe that, but not believe the the Miracles which have occured and are documented in History through Mary? Little far fetched don’t ya think?

Scientists can’t explain the Miracle of the Sun and it being predicted on top of that? It defies Natural Law as we understand it. Only God does that. Only He can do that.

Cont.

 

[GaryTaylor]

We have a problem and its a big one. You know I’ve been to war and held a career in Goverment Defense while my father was alive. We cannot continue to spend Billions without no replenishment of these funds. And this is happening because there is no manufacturing or production in Goverment Defense nor has there been since the Cold War. Basically we work off what is needed when its needed today. And continue to go in hole doing so. So the depletion of economy and resourse’s continues.

Since the Cold War we have continued to be caught in this mouse trap of the middle east. While China and Russia grow stronger and stronger. We are caught in the desert not in a no-quarter war which we can just destroy, kill and eliminate and end. Which by Moral standards we don’t want to do. But when we speak economy its the only way for War to increase the economy by proping up the manufacturing through employment. So while we weaken, Russia and China grow stronger.

So here we stand, and of course those are some evil forces in the middle east. But they are not the Kings and Queens in this chess game. I assure you in a no-quarter war they can easily be eliminated in the middle east. What can’t be easily eliminated is Russia and China. They can provide a no-quarter war which if we continue at the rate we are going we can’t win on the ground, we would have to revert to Nuclear Weapons. War at a disconnected distance is not the plan anymore. Its to weaken and overcome by manpower and not destroy the world in the process. China is already at this level and continue to prepare for war. Russia is about where we are today. Of course this beomes a strategic issue and debate from here.

But the problem comes back around to the stance of both churchs. I fail to see in the wake of what I have already seen what harm this could do. If in fact we can stop war and bring in a era of World Peace through God. I say let these people go for it. They are going to do this at some point, at some time this is gonna happen. You take it to the bank, its gonna happen. If we can stop the chaos and have it happen now? All the better.

If we have to fulfill this message and the Good will be Martyred and have much to suffer? As we are already doing and seeing. Then we will continue down this path. And in the end what is Gods will is going to happen. Maybe in our view of “time” none of us will see this. But you know what I have bad feeling that this is happening very quickly and there are many here who will see this unfold. And many not just in the church but all those who follow the chess game of war feel that same way.

Hopefully through Gods will bondage for the USA isn’t on the agenda. But don’t ever think we are infallible. You can have the best weapons and the best plan in the world and I assure at the start of each battle, all bets are off and the plan goes out the window. History has long record of unbelievable odds being overcome in war. Look at Mohammad as a war general? We almost lost a no-quarter war to Japan. Through attriction we won with one aircraft carrier left and a Nuclear Weapon.

Church? To me, before this situation deteriorates any futher. I believe we need to get this done. I don’t believe we need to be in full communion through I do believe that will be the end result and be nice. I believe there’s a diabolical disorientation going on. We see some of the players like Bin Laden etc. But nonetheless we have the war of Good and evil existing and continuing. And there’s a couple more Bin Ladens out there.

If by the will of God theres chance to stop the chaos? I believe not only we should do this as followers of God, but have to do this through obedience. God didn’t say the EO and CC had to do anything together. But when as the CC being in the situation it has been in for 2000 years has an obligation to fulfill Gods words, and something stands in that way, how should we view that? Ecumenism and communion is a moral situation we feel obligated to accomplish. We are bound by Gods word to do exactly as He states. And the most recent statement is the BVM and Russia confirmed by God. So lies the situation?

Why do you suppose two of those children have been canonized and nothing has been done with Sister Lucy? This is not over, not even close. If you have Gods church existing everywhere it choose’s to in the world, helping all those who are the throw-aways of society. The poor, sick, homeless, needy we want them all. All the children going for abortion we want all them also in Russia. We want them worldwide including here in the USA.

The moral compass the CC has provided in past centurys is obvious to all Theologians of the world. I noted the remarks on this by Rabbis in Israel. They are worried. They followed the CC and see the good it has provided for mankind through the centurys. They believe we need just go ahead and do this.

I believe as rational thinking individuals we can put our personal “feelings” aside for the sake of life. And get this done. Then we can revisit schism and more than likely see it from the correct perspective.

Whats the fear, the CC will overnight explode and absorb the ROC? If your truth is truth then the exact opposite will happen. If this thinking and Theology of the BVM is correct then Gods will is done and what will happen will happen.

I gave you an idea of the those following this CC teaching today which is basically 50% of the CC, another 25% doesn’t even have a clue whats going on, the remainder 25% well they believe, they sort of believe, they don’t believe, they don’t know what to believe. Some are not even sure there’s is a God and others stick to the Deposit of Faith? That Deposit of Faith is a known and obvious to “ALL” Catholics as far as the BVM that would mean 100% of the Catholic Church. All the church.

Cont.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Aside from this on this post what I’m doing is showing you that its being “taught” in the CC to the following generations and in the Church by “everyone” of the elect everywhere in the church, all the orders of the Fathers and Sisters. And believe it or not the CC is growing still. This give’s you an idea of how many believe this. This doesn’t even account for those who are not in the church who believe this.

Your choice in faith is your perogative. These people made a choice, they are following it. And of course all the other historic values and ideals of the schism are noted. We all pretty much know the story. “I think” anyway. I know most posting here do. Anyway I pretty much said all I have to on this point. And at this point I’m going to take (name removed by moderator) advice and leave this alone now and be quiet. I believe its the right Christian path at this time. And I respect everyones opinions since to a large extent we are the same individuals speaking here.

We when say the Bull in the China closet so to speak or the Elephant in the room? To me this is it.

Anyway its good speaking to all of you and God Bless all of you. And when I say that I mean it, and not sarcastically. Me…I’m all done with Schism

God Bless, Gary

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

GaryTaylor;7962517]Aside from this on this post what I’m doing is showing you that its being “taught” in the CC to the following generations and in the Church by “everyone” of the elect everywhere in the church, all the orders of the Fathers and Sisters. And believe it or not the CC is growing still. This give’s you an idea of how many believe this. This doesn’t even account for those who are not in the church who believe this.

Blessing’s Gary; Interesting post’s. From reading your post’s, It occurred to me, how the Blessed Virgin Mary has always played a critical role in human history since the Annunciation and giving birth to God incarnate in human history.

How the BVM played a crucial role in revealing and bringing to fulfillment the Old Covenant in the New Covenant.

The BVM has always inspired the Early Church Fathers devotion and veneration of her as being the model of the Catholic Church personified in her Motherhood and virginity.

The Blessed Virgin Mary brought Jesus to a dieing world, She also brings Jesus to the Eastern nations, and finally to the Western Nations via the Aztecas.

It is said by some, that the blessed Virigin Mary will be the one to bring Jesus to the believers of Islam.

Can the blessed Virgin Mary be the one to bring the grace and peace of Jesus Christ to the schism? Yet all that stands in the way is men?

You mentioned in an earlier post of how divine providence needs to take presidence here over men. I tend to follow you along those lines.

What is to prevent both ROC and the CC to join in prayer and fasting, asking for the intercession of our blessed Lady and saints, so as to remain still and “know that God is God?” So as not to prevent the work of providence in addressing the schismatic issues.

Would the ROC object to a unified prayerful undertaking with the CC on a calendered date annually or other? I wonder if this avenue has ever been addressed towards the schism?

Peace be with you

 

[Mickey]

Personally, I don’t believe in the consecration, so I don’t care how many times such a thing might be attempted. What would bother me is that a large Orthodox population is regard by some Roman Catholics as a legitimate target for conversion, and that is still an element of this whole ‘consecration of Russia’ movement, at least from the lay perspective.

Ditto.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Originally Posted by Hesychios
Personally, I don’t believe in the consecration, so I don’t care how many times such a thing might be attempted. What would bother me is that a large Orthodox population is regard by some Roman Catholics as a legitimate target for conversion, and that is still an element of this whole ‘consecration of Russia’ movement, at least from the lay perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (name removed by moderator)
Oddly enough this echoes my thoughts on the matter also.

Ditto.

I hope I am mistaken here if “fear” is detected from your Orthodoxy? I pray any lingering schism is not based on human fears? Since when does “Truth” have a place for fear?

I thought the Consecration of Russia, was the blessed Mother bringing the peace, grace and Love of Christ to the Russian people and defeat of communism. The soil has been prepared and planted for you to water the seed of your martyrs, why do you fear the Pope?

If anything the pope makes himself a target everytime he addresses Russia. The pope should be slow and careful and be confident that the price he should pay to consecrate Russia by divine providence will not come without a great price. The blessed JPII was shot three times.

There can be no fear in Truth. The pope should fear and tremble should he disobey providence and fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he has made perfect forever those who are being consecrated.
25
We should not stay away from our assembly, 13 as is the custom of some, but encourage one another, and this all the more as you see the day drawing near.
27
but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.
29
Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace?
31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32
Remember the days past when, after you had been enlightened, 16 you endured a great contest of suffering.
33
At times you were publicly exposed to abuse and affliction; at other times you associated yourselves with those so treated.
34
You even joined in the sufferings of those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, knowing that you had a better and lasting possession.
35
Therefore, do not throw away your confidence; it will have great recompense.
36
You need endurance to do the will of God and receive what he has promised.
38
**But my just one shall live by faith, and if he draws back I take no pleasure in him." **39
We are not among those who draw back and perish, but among those who have faith and will possess life.

 

[Harpazo]

Originally Posted by Hesychios
Personally, I don’t believe in the consecration, so I don’t care how many times such a thing might be attempted. What would bother me is that a large Orthodox population is regard by some Roman Catholics as a legitimate target for conversion, and that is still an element of this whole ‘consecration of Russia’ movement, at least from the lay perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (name removed by moderator)
Oddly enough this echoes my thoughts on the matter also.

I hope I am mistaken here if “fear” is detected from your Orthodoxy? I pray any lingering schism is not base on fears? Since when does “Truth” have a place for fear?

I thought the Consecration of Russia, was the blessed Mother bringing the peace, grace and Love of Christ to the Russian people and defeat of communism. The soil has been prepared and planted for you to water the seed of your martyrs, why do you fear the Pope?

If anything the pope makes himself a target everytime he addresses Russia. The pope should be slow and careful and be confident that the price he should pay to consecrate Russia by divine providence will not come with a price. The blessed JPII was shot three times.

There can be no fear in Truth. The pope should fear and tremble should he disobey providence and fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he has made perfect forever those who are being consecrated.
25
We should not stay away from our assembly, 13 as is the custom of some, but encourage one another, and this all the more as you see the day drawing near.
27
but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.
29
Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace?
31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32
Remember the days past when, after you had been enlightened, 16 you endured a great contest of suffering.
33
At times you were publicly exposed to abuse and affliction; at other times you associated yourselves with those so treated.
34
You even joined in the sufferings of those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, knowing that you had a better and lasting possession.
35
Therefore, do not throw away your confidence; it will have great recompense.
36
You need endurance to do the will of God and receive what he has promised.
38
But my just one shall live by faith, and if he draws back I take no pleasure in him."
39
We are not among those who draw back and perish, but among those who have faith and will possess life.

No fear at all. Though I don’t think it would be farfetched to say that we have the same reaction to it as when the Mormons posthumously baptized John Paul II.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Mickey]

No fear at all.

Though I don’t think it would be farfetched to say that we have the same reaction to it as when the Mormons posthumously baptized John Paul II.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

No fear at all. Though I don’t think it would be farfetched to say that we have the same reaction to it as when the Mormons posthumously baptized John Paul II.

In Christ,
Andrew

Point well taken, although the consecration remains a reality check in real time with real lives, supported by historical facts. While your latter baptism example, does draw the taste of humor. In time divine providence will prevail.

 

[Harpazo]

Point well taken, although the consecration remains a reality check in real time with real lives, supported by historical facts. While your latter baptism example, does draw the taste of humor. In time divine providence will prevail.

That’s fine. It just doesn’t phase use either way. I don’t know if Orthodox back then when it happened felt the same, but nowadays we don’t think about it.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Uh-oh. If Mary is working through Catholicism with the Fatima visions, why are we looking into Orthodoxy then?!

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I agree with your post here; It should be noted what the “Immaculate Heart of Mary” is revealed from the gospels. The gospels clearly reveal the immaculate heart of Mary, as she would ponder and keep all these gospel events of Jesus in her heart including the passion of Jesus Christ when the sword pierced her heart as Simeon prophecised.

The Immaculate heart of Mary, mirrors the suffering which the Russian people will have to endure and did endure from communism, the Immaculate heart of Mary consecrated to Russia gives hope when there was no hope. The Immaculate heart of Mary suffers as Russia suffered, so as to give birth to Christ to a communistic Russia who removed God from her people.

The pope is just the messenger, don’t strike the messenger, Mary’s Immculate heart will heal Russia back to Christ.

If both CC and ROC can reflect on the Immaculate heart of Mary, no hurt, sorrow, friction, schism can ever compare or live up to her Immaculate heart, these will all fall away. If only we can say “Yes” to God as the blessed Virgin Mary does.

Peace be with you