Question about The Society of Saint Pius X

[Icarus210]

well there are over 1.4 million faithfull following the Traditional path though SSPX world wide… so I think you should all start praying that Pope Benedict moves as fast as the vatican can move. dont you think???

I know we pray for him every mass.

Please dont shoot the messenger, You very well may need our priests

 

[JKirkLVNV]

well there are over 1.4 million faithfull following the Traditional path though SSPX world wide… so I think you should all start praying that Pope Benedict moves as fast as the vatican can move. dont you think???

I know we pray for him every mass.

Please dont shoot the messenger, You very well may need our priests

As for that, there are over 1 billion Catholics worldwide. Even if you drop away the negligent or the "cafeteria Catholics, etc., there is still a far larger number of Catholics who are simply obedient to the Holy See (including traditionalists who simply continued in their obedience). Nonetheless, we worship the God who leaves the 99 safe in the fold and goes out searching for the lost sheep, so we have every good hope for the SSPX, the Orthodox, our Protestant brethren, etc. I pray for the Holy Father daily, but in terms of alacrity, I’ll rather pray that the SSPX bishops will be the ones to pick up the pace. They’re the ones in error.

And we don’t need anything. One of the basic, traditional teachings of the Catholic Catholic Church is that she is complete and lacking nothing, by virtue of Christ’s promise, by virtue of the fact that she is His Bride. Whatever comes into her, SSPX, Orthodox, or, frankly, Protestant (they give GREAT sermons, for example) may well serve her, but only because what they have of value they got from her anyway.

 

[RobDH]

We have no idea who is and who is not schismatic. While we can’t point to specific people we can say that it is likely that there are priests and laity also in schism. Also, the marriages and confessions(except in danger of death) are invalid due to the jurisdictional problems.

This one letter from Ecclesia Dei Commission covers all of this:
latin-mass-society.org/laitysspx.htm

Thank you for posting this and thus answering questions I’ve had for sometime. Though it pains me, my wife and I will stop attending the TLM we most often go to.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

The Society of St Pius X refused to celebrate the Mass according to the liturgy approved by the Second Vatican Council. Their leader Lefevre, was a bishop, and the rights of bishops are quite complicated in canon law, so this in itself didn’t lead to automatic explusion from the Church. However Lefevre, fearing that he would die and leave the society without a bishop, consecrated three other bishops despite being instructed not to do so by Pope John Paul II. This was a clear act of disobedience for which he and the new bishops were excommunicated.

The part of your summation that I bolded is false. The Pope told Lefevre that he could select a successor for the Society and the day after he and the pope agreed to this, Lefevre consecrated three, instead of one priest of the Society as bishops.

 

[bear06]

Thank you for posting this and thus answering questions I’ve had for sometime. Though it pains me, my wife and I will stop attending the TLM we most often go to.

Many prayers that you find another licit TLM near you. Hopefully you already have an option but I’m sure if you give your location, you’ll get many suggestions. Some might be ones that you don’t even know about.

 

[RobDH]

The part of your summation that I bolded is false. The Pope told Lefevre that he could select a successor for the Society and the day after he and the pope agreed to this, Lefevre consecrated three, instead of one priest of the Society as bishops.

It would still appear to be a clear case of disobedience.

 

[CatholicNick]

This question has been asked by about 20 other people. You know that 99.9% of us are not going to declare anyone in schism. That said, I can say without a doubt that it is a possibility. It’s also possible there is no schism. We can only be wary of the SSPX.

Finally!

I agree with ya

 

[BobP123]

Thank you for posting this and thus answering questions I’ve had for sometime. Though it pains me, my wife and I will stop attending the TLM we most often go to.

It doesn’t sound like you’ve developed a schismatic mindset. Ultimately that is the difference between being able to attend a SSPX Mass or not. In fact any Mass, for that matter.

I sincerely hope you will find a TLM which you can feel comfortable with and soon.

 

[childofmary1143]

To witness a wedding or to forgive sins a priest must have faculties from the bishop of the diocese. It is my understanding that Eastern Orthodox bishops have jurisdiction over their dioceses; SSPX bishops do not.

This is a very confusing aspect of Liturgy and Sacraments. How can Eastern Orthodox Bishops have valid jurisdiction if SSPX Bishops don’t? What makes Eastern Orthodox MORE CATHOLIC than SSPX? While I don’t totally support what SSPX did I would say that SSPX is more Catholic than Eastern Orthodox.

 

[Nita]

We have no idea who is and who is not schismatic. While we can’t point to specific people we can say that it is likely that there are priests and laity also in schism. Also, the marriages and confessions(except in danger of death) are invalid due to the jurisdictional problems.

This one letter from Ecclesia Dei Commission covers all of this:
latin-mass-society.org/laitysspx.htm

Thanks a lot Bear.

Nita

 

[TraditionalCath]

To all the ppl who think SSPX is non valid… I became a catholic through them 4 years ago. (2 years catechism plus confirmation from Bishop Williamson.

I have been to 2 NO masses which really did nothing for me in the sence of being an ex Anglican there was no difference…and the last one I went to the priest gave a “common absolution” to the whole congregation… So I never went back there.

1 question for all you experts

Am I a catholic? or a catholic in Schism, or an Illicit catholic… or still a heathen?

Waiting with baited breath.

the canonical status of the laity of the sspx has not been determined.

 

[hosemonkey]

the canonical status of the laity of the sspx has not been determined.

It seems to me that if you have made your profession of faith in the Catholic Church, are validly baptised etc. then you are Catholic. I would explore this further with your (non-SSPX) parish priest, but it seems to me that you would be good to go.

 

[BobCatholic]

the canonical status of the laity of the sspx has not been determined.

SSPX is a priestly order and thus there are no “laity” of the SSPX.

 

[RobDH]

Many prayers that you find another licit TLM near you. Hopefully you already have an option but I’m sure if you give your location, you’ll get many suggestions. Some might be ones that you don’t even know about.

My thanks to both you and to BobP123.

I was already uncomfortable because of some statements made by the priest and certain laity in the past. The church is not close by and we are used to traveling some distance, as our previous bishop had been less than generous with his permissions for TLMs. But there are other locations not that much further away. It just means we can’t go every Sunday.

I know that I’m not the only one in our local parish interested in TLMs (I’ve become a sort of unofficial spokesman and “clearinghouse” for recommendations about the area TLMs) and our priest was already interested in possibilities long before the Muto Proprio was released. He has studied some Latin and I’ve told him about the FSSP’s willingness to help.

I was quite surprised and pleased when he spoke to me after this morning’s Mass, telling me that it appears the new bishop had already quietly been looking to discover who might be capable of offering indult Masses. Perhaps he was just preparing for the possibilities of the then promised motu proprio. I’m sure it will take some time to find out who is genuine qualified but there do seem to be, if not “winds of change”, at least breezes.

 

[hosemonkey]

My thanks to both you and to BobP123.

I was already uncomfortable because of some statements made by the priest and certain laity in the past. The church is not close by and we are used to traveling some distance, as our previous bishop had been less than generous with his permissions for TLMs. But there are other locations not that much further away. It just means we can’t go every Sunday.

I know that I’m not the only one in our local parish interested in TLMs (I’ve become a sort of unofficial spokesman and “clearinghouse” for recommendations about the area TLMs) and our priest was already interested in possibilities long before the Muto Proprio was released. He has studied some Latin and I’ve told him about the FSSP’s willingness to help.

I was quite surprised and pleased when he spoke to me after this morning’s Mass, telling me that it appears the new bishop had already quietly been looking to discover who might be capable of offering indult Masses. Perhaps he was just preparing for the possibilities of the then promised motu proprio. I’m sure it will take some time to find out who is genuine qualified but there do seem to be, if not “winds of change”, at least breezes.

I am not sure where you are located in California, but we are up in the high desert(north of Lancaster) and our only choices for TLM is Bakersfield (SSPX) and indult at 8:00 am, Colton (SSPX 150 miles away) so we elected to return to our local parish and wait. I am not sure how our Bishop feels about the TLM, but I am pretty sure that our parish priest won’t care much for it. So, if your Bishop is looking on it favorably, you are fortunate, but as for us, we are just staying away from SSPX until they make up their minds. As I said, they have a lot to offer the Church if they can get over the “us and them” mentality. Let’s pray hard for it.

 

[RobDH]

…but as for us, we are just staying away from SSPX until they make up their minds. As I said, they have a lot to offer the Church if they can get over the “us and them” mentality. Let’s pray hard for it.

We’re in the San Francisco bay area, and only about 30-50 miles from several TLMs, private or public, so we aren’t bad off. We attend a TLM at least once a month but are still very active in our local parish.

As to the “us and them” attitude, that’s what caused me pause at the SSPX churches I’ve visited. The majority of the congregations are nice people who just want traditional Catholicism. But when the few are in the “hierarchy” of the local church, there are some problems, at least from my prospective. I’m sure that varies within the SSPX movement. I agree that the majority would be a welcomed addition to “regular” church communities.

 

[BobP123]

the canonical status of the laity of the sspx has not been determined.

There is no such thing. SSPX has no laity.

Canon Law allows attandance for anyone under certain conditions. If one can’t meet those conditions, and I suppose many can’t, then he shouldn’t go. And if one’s conscience bothers him, then definitely he shouldn’t go.

No one is forcing anyone else one way or the other on the matter.

 

[bear06]

We’re in the San Francisco bay area, and only about 30-50 miles from several TLMs, private or public, so we aren’t bad off. We attend a TLM at least once a month but are still very active in our local parish.

As to the “us and them” attitude, that’s what caused me pause at the SSPX churches I’ve visited. The majority of the congregations are nice people who just want traditional Catholicism. But when the few are in the “hierarchy” of the local church, there are some problems, at least from my prospective. I’m sure that varies within the SSPX movement. I agree that the majority would be a welcomed addition to “regular” church communities.

I’m in the Oakland diocese so I’m sure you know of St. Margaret Mary’s. Also, if you’ve been attending a chapel then I’m guessing it’s the one in the Santa Clara area. I believe there are two different indult Masses going down there right now. The newest one is at Oratory of the Chapel of Our Mother of Perpetual Help, located at 1298 Homestead Road in Santa Clara, telephone (408) 248-4330. The ICRS has been brought in there.

 

[bear06]

There is no such thing. SSPX has no laity.

Canon Law allows attandance for anyone under certain conditions. If one can’t meet those conditions, and I suppose many can’t, then he shouldn’t go. And if one’s conscience bothers him, then definitely he shouldn’t go.

No one is forcing anyone else one way or the other on the matter.

Are you being technical or are you not aware of their Third Order?
sspx.org/third_order.htm

 

[RobDH]

I’m in the Oakland diocese so I’m sure you know of St. Margaret Mary’s. Also, if you’ve been attending a chapel then I’m guessing it’s the one in the Santa Clara area. I believe there are two different indult Masses going down there right now. The newest one is at Oratory of the Chapel of Our Mother of Perpetual Help, located at 1298 Homestead Road in Santa Clara, telephone (408) 248-4330. The ICRS has been brought in there.

Thank you. Yes, I have attended at the Oratory (wonderful folks)and others in the area, and have been to St. MM’s also. There’s also one at the Seaman’s Chapel on Fisherman’s Wharf in S.F. They are all excellent TLMs. These are all in the 30-50 mile range from us.