Question about truth of Mormonism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scholastica15
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Scholastica15

Guest
Mormonism is a very hot topic and when missionaries come to the door, they tell you the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the one true church. Along with this, they also tell you that the Book of Mormon is the ‘fullness to the everlasting gospel’. For those of you with a B.o.M. at home, please turn to Alma 7:10.
. For the people who don’t have one, it states:

“And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel…”

This verse was speaking of Jesus being born. Oddly enough, it says that he will be born at Jerusalem and as most people know, Jesus was born in Bethlehem. The Book of Mormon is claimed to be the Word of God. If it truly is, then I would think that the Word of God would be right and it would definately have the birthplace of the one the Mormon church emphasizes so much on(Jesus Christ), correct. And I truly do not think there is any way to justify this or make up an excuse. What could one possibly say? Joseph Smith MEANT Bethlehem…? Well if he had translated it from plates, I would think the plates would have had it right.So the main question is, if the Book of Mormon is untrue, then therefore the church would be untrue right? Just a thought and I would love to hear all and any comments on this.

God Bless.
 
Scholastica15 said:
Mormonism is a very hot topic and when missionaries come to the door, they tell you the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the one true church. Along with this, they also tell you that the Book of Mormon is the ‘fullness to the everlasting gospel’. For those of you with a B.o.M. at home, please turn to Alma 7:10.
. For the people who don’t have one, it states:

“And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel…”

This verse was speaking of Jesus being born. Oddly enough, it says that he will be born at Jerusalem and as most people know, Jesus was born in Bethlehem. The Book of Mormon is claimed to be the Word of God. If it truly is, then I would think that the Word of God would be right and it would definately have the birthplace of the one the Mormon church emphasizes so much on(Jesus Christ), correct. And I truly do not think there is any way to justify this or make up an excuse. What could one possibly say? Joseph Smith MEANT Bethlehem…? Well if he had translated it from plates, I would think the plates would have had it right.So the main question is, if the Book of Mormon is untrue, then therefore the church would be untrue right? Just a thought and I would love to hear all and any comments on this.

God Bless.
Click to expand...
View of the Hebrews
(1825 edition)
By Ethan Smith

irr.org/MIT/Books/View-Hebrews/viewhe1a.html
 
One “explanation” that I heard of that passage was that Bethlehem is considered a “suburb” of Jerusalem.

As I understand it, Jerusalem at that time was a lot smaller than it is now, and the distance between the two covered a lot of open country - maybe it could be considered a “suburb” today (although I really don’t think that it is) but back in those days, I don’t think the concept of a “suburb” even existed.

The one I’m wondering about, though, is how they got the elephants into South America. (Elephants in the wild live in Africa and Asia - any elephants in the Americas are either in zoos, or have escaped from zoos).

But even if it turns out that Bethlehem could be considered part of Jerusalem, and even if it turns out that there could have been elephants in South America when the “lost tribes” apparently arrived there in canoes, :rolleyes: the Mormon religion is still false, and we can know that it is false because it has no connection to the religion that was established by Jesus Christ, with Peter as its head, between 30 and 33 AD, or thereabouts.
 
Scholastica15 said:
Mormonism is a very hot topic and when missionaries come to the door, they tell you the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the one true church. Along with this, they also tell you that the Book of Mormon is the ‘fullness to the everlasting gospel’. For those of you with a B.o.M. at home, please turn to Alma 7:10.
. For the people who don’t have one, it states:

“And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel…”

This verse was speaking of Jesus being born. Oddly enough, it says that he will be born at Jerusalem and as most people know, Jesus was born in Bethlehem. The Book of Mormon is claimed to be the Word of God. If it truly is, then I would think that the Word of God would be right and it would definately have the birthplace of the one the Mormon church emphasizes so much on(Jesus Christ), correct. And I truly do not think there is any way to justify this or make up an excuse. What could one possibly say? Joseph Smith MEANT Bethlehem…? Well if he had translated it from plates, I would think the plates would have had it right.So the main question is, if the Book of Mormon is untrue, then therefore the church would be untrue right? Just a thought and I would love to hear all and any comments on this.

God Bless.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t make too much of this if I were you. I currently live in Southern California, but grew up in Concord, Massachusetts. When people ask me where I’m from originally (everyone in California seems to be from somewhere else originally), I usually tell them I’m from Boston. Why? Because almost nobody knows where Concord is, but everyone knows where Boston is and Concord is only about 14 miles northwest of Boston.
The Mormons will tell you that all of the Nephites knew about Jerusalem, but very few of them would know where Bethlehem is.
Bethlehem is about 10 km southwest of Jerusalem.

There are far bigger problems with the Book of Mormon than this.
God bless you,
Paul
 
dosdog said:
You need to do more research
Click to expand...
I suppose you mean find and read things by people who support the mormon church and doctrine? Well, I’m fine with just the Bible and the Bible says Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and the Book of Mormon has it incorrect.

Sure, maybe people say “Boston” instead of “Concord”, but lets be real here: this is Jesus’ birthplace. I think any true Christian should have that right.

And out of curiousity PaulDupre what are the other issues with the B.o.M? I would like to know and this thread is about the truth of Mormonism.
 
Scholastica15 said:
I suppose you mean find and read things by people who support the mormon church and doctrine? Well, I’m fine with just the Bible and the Bible says Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and the Book of Mormon has it incorrect.

Sure, maybe people say “Boston” instead of “Concord”, but lets be real here: this is Jesus’ birthplace. I think any true Christian should have that right.

And out of curiousity PaulDupre what are the other issues with the B.o.M? I would like to know and this thread is about the truth of Mormonism.
Click to expand...
First Mormons do not believe the Bible was translated correctly
They think the Church is apostate quoting bible verses will get you no where
 
Scholastica15 said:
I suppose you mean find and read things by people who support the mormon church and doctrine? Well, I’m fine with just the Bible and the Bible says Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and the Book of Mormon has it incorrect.

Sure, maybe people say “Boston” instead of “Concord”, but lets be real here: this is Jesus’ birthplace. I think any true Christian should have that right.

And out of curiousity PaulDupre what are the other issues with the B.o.M? I would like to know and this thread is about the truth of Mormonism.
Click to expand...
Trust me, dosdog is no supporter of Mormonism. I myself am an ex-Mormon, now Catholic. I lived as a faithful convert to Mormonism for 11 years. I served a mission in Taiwan, was married in the temple, served as a gospel doctrine teacher, and was counselor to one branch president and one bishop. I attended the temple 19 or 20 times. So I know whereof I speak.

The latest and greatest in the debunking of the BofM is the DNA evidence which proves that, contrary to the BofM claims, the American indians are not descended from Israelite Jews who came to the American continent in 600 BC. Rather, they are descended from Mongolians who crossed the Bering straits on foot during the last ice age about 10,000 years ago. Learn about it here. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the link on the left hand side to watch the whole video.

Also, the Book of Mormon contains some really huge anachronisms. The main BofM timeline goes from 600 BC to 421 AD. The book claims that the Nephites, the righteous white people, had horses and chariots and steel weapons and glass and silk and honey bees and elephants. None of these things existed in the Americas in this time frame.

The BofM also claims that the Nephites built great cities made of cement, and great cement highways that connected all of the cities to each other for high-speed travel by chariot. There is no archaeological evidence of cement or of any high-tech society in the Americas prior to Columbus.

The BofM claims that the Nephites had a fully Christian culture that spoke Hebrew and wrote their history in a “reformed egyptian” script. Yet there has never been any trace of any language similar to Hebrew or Egyptian in any of the tribes native to the Americas. There is no evidence of any knowledge of Judaism or Christianity in the pre-columbian Americas. The Mormons have been searching for evidence of the BofM for more than 150 years and have come up completely dry.

By contrast, the more archaeologists explore the meditaranean area, the more evidence they find to corroborate the bible account of life in that area. Most of the cities, cultures and languages described in the bible have been definitively identified in digs by archaeologists, both Christian and non-Christian.

Hope this helps,
Paul
 
Scholastica15 said:
I suppose you mean find and read things by people who support the mormon church and doctrine? Well, I’m fine with just the Bible and the Bible says Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and the Book of Mormon has it incorrect.

Sure, maybe people say “Boston” instead of “Concord”, but lets be real here: this is Jesus’ birthplace. I think any true Christian should have that right.

And out of curiousity PaulDupre what are the other issues with the B.o.M? I would like to know and this thread is about the truth of Mormonism.
Click to expand...
Considering the number and enormity of the wowsers in the BoM, the Jerusalem/Bethlehem thing is minor. Read the book sometime, if only for entertainment.

JSA
 
blackrobe said:
Considering the number and enormity of the wowsers in the BoM, the Jerusalem/Bethlehem thing is minor. Read the book sometime, if only for entertainment.

JSA
Click to expand...
Make sure you pack some No-Doze. The BoM is a real snooze-fest.
 
PaulDupre said:
Make sure you pack some No-Doze. The BoM is a real snooze-fest.
Click to expand...
I remember reading one time that the book was so badly written that, at the time, Joseph Smith couldn’t even get it published as fiction - he had to self-publish it at a vanity publisher’s, because no real pubisher would take it.
 
Yes, that’s true. Farmer Martin Harris put up the money to print the Book of Mormon.

God bless,
Paul
 
PaulDupre said:
The latest and greatest in the debunking of the BofM is the DNA evidence which proves that, contrary to the BofM claims, the American indians are not descended from Israelite Jews who came to the American continent in 600 BC. Rather, they are descended from Mongolians who crossed the Bering straits on foot during the last ice age about 10,000 years ago.

I have heard of this DNA experiment, and there are several problems with it. First off, how do you get a reliable sample of Jewish DNA? anyone who is familiar with the Old Testament is familiar with the scatterings of Isreal, The Isrealites living with the Canaanites, Isrealites marrying the Canaanites, etc… Furthermore, how can you assume that all Jews have an identical, inheritable DNA strand?
Even if the science is flawless lets take a docterinal perspective on this. If you recall from the BOM, neither the Nephites nor Lamanites founded their capital city of Zarahemla, but rather it was inhabited by a people -who are not descendents of Lehi- that were there long before them (Omni 1:14-15). Therefore, there is no way to be certain you have pure Lamanite DNA to compare either
What does this have to do with the topic anyway, isn’t this for another forumn?
Click to expand...
 
zuquack said:
PaulDupre;1656094:
The latest and greatest in the debunking of the BofM is the DNA evidence which proves that, contrary to the BofM claims, the American indians are not descended from Israelite Jews who came to the American continent in 600 BC. Rather, they are descended from Mongolians who crossed the Bering straits on foot during the last ice age about 10,000 years ago.

I have heard of this DNA experiment, and there are several problems with it. First off, how do you get a reliable sample of Jewish DNA? anyone who is familiar with the Old Testament is familiar with the scatterings of Isreal, The Isrealites living with the Canaanites, Isrealites marrying the Canaanites, etc… Furthermore, how can you assume that all Jews have an identical, inheritable DNA strand?
Even if the science is flawless lets take a docterinal perspective on this. If you recall from the BOM, neither the Nephites nor Lamanites founded their capital city of Zarahemla, but rather it was inhabited by a people -who are not descendents of Lehi- that were there long before them (Omni 1:14-15). Therefore, there is no way to be certain you have pure Lamanite DNA to compare either
What does this have to do with the topic anyway, isn’t this for another forumn?
Click to expand...
NO -Question about truth of Mormonism

irr.org/MIT/origins.html

irr.org/MIT/southerton-response.html
Click to expand...
 
PaulDupre said:
Trust me, dosdog is no supporter of Mormonism. I myself am an ex-Mormon, now Catholic. I lived as a faithful convert to Mormonism for 11 years. I served a mission in Taiwan, was married in the temple, served as a gospel doctrine teacher, and was counselor to one branch president and one bishop. I attended the temple 19 or 20 times. So I know whereof I speak.

The latest and greatest in the debunking of the BofM is the DNA evidence which proves that, contrary to the BofM claims, the American indians are not descended from Israelite Jews who came to the American continent in 600 BC. Rather, they are descended from Mongolians who crossed the Bering straits on foot during the last ice age about 10,000 years ago. Learn about it here. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the link on the left hand side to watch the whole video.

Also, the Book of Mormon contains some really huge anachronisms. The main BofM timeline goes from 600 BC to 421 AD. The book claims that the Nephites, the righteous white people, had horses and chariots and steel weapons and glass and silk and honey bees and elephants. None of these things existed in the Americas in this time frame.

The BofM also claims that the Nephites built great cities made of cement, and great cement highways that connected all of the cities to each other for high-speed travel by chariot. There is no archaeological evidence of cement or of any high-tech society in the Americas prior to Columbus.

The BofM claims that the Nephites had a fully Christian culture that spoke Hebrew and wrote their history in a “reformed egyptian” script. Yet there has never been any trace of any language similar to Hebrew or Egyptian in any of the tribes native to the Americas. There is no evidence of any knowledge of Judaism or Christianity in the pre-columbian Americas. The Mormons have been searching for evidence of the BofM for more than 150 years and have come up completely dry.

By contrast, the more archaeologists explore the meditaranean area, the more evidence they find to corroborate the bible account of life in that area. Most of the cities, cultures and languages described in the bible have been definitively identified in digs by archaeologists, both Christian and non-Christian.

Hope this helps,
Paul
Click to expand...
The interesting thing to me about the DNA evidence is that it only confirms what we already knew about the Book of Mormon and Native American ancestory. All of the problems you mentioned with the Book of Mormon were well known before the DNA evidence was in. Scientists had already shown that Native Americans were likely descendents of Siberians. The DNA evidence just proved it! The arguments Mormons bring up against the DNA evidence don’t wash for me because the DNA evidence simply verifies what was already known about Native Americans.

There is simply nothing about the Book of Mormon that seems inspired. I’ll provide this link to a former BYU professor’s thoughts on the Book of Mormon and Mormonism:

nuspel.org/mormons.html
 
""I have heard of this DNA experiment, and there are several problems with it. First off, how do you get a reliable sample of Jewish DNA? anyone who is familiar with the Old Testament is familiar with the scatterings of Isreal, The Isrealites living with the Canaanites, Isrealites marrying the Canaanites, etc… Furthermore, how can you assume that all Jews have an identical, inheritable DNA strand? “”

I watched the 49 minute film linked by PaulDupre. The film didn’t go into any of the science of it but rather was a long, maybe too long, assertion of opinion. The persons speaking in the film were obviously working to make a point. The experts kept inserting words like “practically” “almost certain” etc. I’m no scientist, and I know nothing about DNA. But I can recognize an infomercial when I see it. I doubt very many career Mormons are going to be upset about this DNA evidence. It may help some doubters doubt a little harder. That’s about it. The Mormon church has lots of its people are entangled financially with the success of the church. Even if some do disbelieve the tales of Mormonism, few will leave the church, because it is also an engine of financial empire, and their livelihoods are at stake.
 
Allweather said:
""I have heard of this DNA experiment, and there are several problems with it. First off, how do you get a reliable sample of Jewish DNA? anyone who is familiar with the Old Testament is familiar with the scatterings of Isreal, The Isrealites living with the Canaanites, Isrealites marrying the Canaanites, etc… Furthermore, how can you assume that all Jews have an identical, inheritable DNA strand? “”

I watched the 49 minute film linked by PaulDupre. The film didn’t go into any of the science of it but rather was a long, maybe too long, assertion of opinion. The persons speaking in the film were obviously working to make a point. The experts kept inserting words like “practically” “almost certain” etc. I’m no scientist, and I know nothing about DNA. But I can recognize an infomercial when I see it. I doubt very many career Mormons are going to be upset about this DNA evidence. It may help some doubters doubt a little harder. That’s about it. The Mormon church has lots of its people are entangled financially with the success of the church. Even if some do disbelieve the tales of Mormonism, few will leave the church, because it is also an engine of financial empire, and their livelihoods are at stake.
Click to expand...
Did you even read Southerton’s response to Mormon criticism of DNA evidence linked above?
 
Speaking of BoM anachronisms, did you ever notice that in the Book of Ether, it implies that the people from the tower of babel knew about glass?
And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: What will ye that I should do that ye may have light in your vessels? For behold, ye cannot have windows, for they will be dashed in pieces; neither shall ye take fire with you, for ye shall not go by the light of fire. (Ether 2:23)
Click to expand...
Now, Noah was commanded to put a window in the upper part of the ark, but that window did not have glass in it, so it could not be “dashed to pieces”. Could Sidney and Joseph have thought that the ancients had glass windows?

Just wondering,
Paul
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top