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MindOverMatter2
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Why do you get this impression?
Question: are women to blame for being raped if they were wearing revealing clothing according to teaching?
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Reservoir_Dog
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You appear to me to be of reasonably sound mind such that no one would think you “agree with rape”.
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manualman
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No. And in the 1920’s I wouldn’t have had any studies to throw at you in support of my rejection of the theory of eugenics either (and you’d have plenty).
Social science is not a hard science. It is formalized opinion supported by argument and polling, but is simply not controllable in the way that hard science can conduct controlled experiments.
I’m done here, nothing productive is occurring.
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ToeInTheWater
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centurionguard, I think I should clarify my points here. I certainly don’t believe that women (or men for that matter) are ever morally culpable for rape, or that a woman’s behavior mitigates a rapist’s sin. I guess I should have specified that I agree with the general opinions of others here that this is the case.
As for my friend…I’m not saying what happened to her was okay. I don’t think it was okay at all. I think the guy was…well, something I probably shouldn’t type on a public forum! But, I am saying that, as a matter of prudence, if she hadn’t invited the guy into her apartment, she wouldn’t have gone through what she did. I have a feeling she is going to change her behavior in the future. Now, will that protect her from all similar incidents? Will it protect her from a man who breaks into her apartment and attacks her? Of course not. Nor did I mean to imply that everyone who is a victim of rape (or any crime) winds up in that situation due to poor choices. I’m certainly not implying that was the case for you.
However, it seems just as inaccurate to say that poor choices never play a role in such events. Or that giving people advice on how to reduce the risk of being victimized implies that a person who doesn’t follow the advice is somehow to blame for being a victim. For example, one tip given to women is that if they go to a bar, they shouldn’t leave their drinks unattended, because someone could spike it with a date-rape drug. I guess we can debate whether this is prudent advice or not. But giving this advice doesn’t mean I think that if someone doesn’t follow that advice and does get raped, that she was responsible for it.
Now, it also seems to me that the psyche of a man who breaks into a woman’s house with the intent to rape might very well be a little different from that of a man who is invited into a woman’s home and jumps to the conclusion that this action means the woman is consenting to having sex with him. Strategies for avoiding encounters with the first kind of man might very well be different than strategies for avoiding encounters with the second. I think this way, because I myself am a woman and would certainly like to minimize my chances of being raped, That has nothing to do with blaming victims. I hope.
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Reservoir_Dog
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So the answer is … no, you don’t have anything to offer other than your opinion? Is that right?
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centurionguard
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…
Hello ToeInTheWater;
I appreciate you taking the time to clarify. (“For the most part I will agree on a number points you make”). I suppose being a victim of gang-rape speaking with internet forum friends who are also victims (“mostly female victims”) of extremely horrifying rapes similar to mine makes me in some understandable manner very defensive in support of all victims of rape, incest, assault, etc. But by the same token I don’t believe I’m a close minded person. Threads like these can at times have the tendency to lean on the far bias left if left unchecked stereotyping all women who are raped as warranting blame.
Being a Asexual/Heterosexual man who has gone through worst trial of hell in my life, I’ve heard enough damned s#*t and blame pigeonholing all male victims as gay.
Isn’t it strange that I a man being gang-raped by two men and a women and yet I don’t put women down due to horrendous acts and torture the female assailant inflicted savagely on my being. No I didn’t condone what she did anymore than the savage acts of torture my male assailant did to me.
Women though always get the bum rap when it comes to being raped, demeaned and looked down upon as an inferior weaker sex when people forget that women have as much an important vocation in life as men do. In someways (“in a manner of speaking”);
I see women being called to fulfill a greater role in society than men do. Because it is women much more than men who nurture the cornerstone of society. The regrettable part in this is when women choose not to fulfill this role and embrace abortion instead.
I could speak more but I don’t want to move away from this thread topic.
In every way as much as Jesus prophesied that the Poor will always remain in this world until the end of this world…so too will victims of rape pervade every corner of this confounded world. As much as God’s first chosen race were held captive in bondage in Egypt during the Exodus of Moses. I believe Rape Victims outnumber any people in human history captive in bondage save sinners themselves. Will God stop the sin of Rape? Not a chance! Humans have the gift of Freedom to choose good or evil.
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DLT
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I would say in most cases, “No, a woman is not responsible for being raped.” Never-the-less, there are cases where all involved are somewhat responsible, although the rapists more than the woman. I remember seeing a movie about an actually case of gang rape. The woman who was raped was drunk and so were the men. The woman danced from man to man extremely provacatively until they raped her. If the woman got drunk on her own without being drugged, I would say that she bore some of the responsibility for letting herself get so drunk and allowing herself to get into that situation. It should be a lesson to all. The woman ended up raped for her behavior and the men in prison for theirs. A person in that story who was also responsible, and should have been put in jail, was the sober bartender who allowed all this to happen without calling the police. I think he did go to jail or prison.
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PetersKeys
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no, this is totally wrong since your house is private property and you were minding your own buisness.Peter, i am in my bedroom fast to sleep, and home invasion, I get raped. Now the guy gets caught and they ask him why he did this. He said because she was flaunting herself in the window and i was standing right there and watching her undress etc. She tempted me, should he have been doing this? Should he have walked away?Could he have let the neighborhood watch know? Why should he, it’s his decision to go in and do what he feels she deserves. HEY!
The issues I was bringing up is when you go into public places and instigate certain things.
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Reservoir_Dog
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My favorite Catholic thread. How can anyone assign any blame to a rape victim? Accused rapists rarely, if ever, take the stand in their own defense, but if one had, and said victim “instigate[d] certain things”, there would be a figurative bloodbath in court.
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PetersKeys
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And true love is to follow God’s commands in marriage. A wife is under the leadership and authority of her husband. The husband is head. Cardinal Robert Bellemaine goes into detail into thisHI Peter, yes it is so that woman are more frail and man is to be their protector, not raper, beater, molester, murderer, Adam might have been a differnt kind of man being the first and God intrusted this female to him. Female, woman means= female man. We are to walk side by side and not under the feet of any man, some day Peter if a woman would marry you she will have to realy think like you do because i do see some prejudice in your words and domination. I would never allow anyone to dominate me.This is what happens in prisons not on main street, and you will notice prisoners will be dominating because of the way they had to live. Not nice.Better to do things out of love, love conquers all things, even me.
“Wives, be in submission to your husbands, AS UNTO the Lord” - Ephesians 5:22
“I permit not a woman to usurp the authority of a men, she is to be silent” - 1 Timothy 2:12
I am already married. Almost 10 years. She is a traditionalist catholic(not sede though) from Chile. I would NEVER marry a western American women because they do not have christian views of marriage and have very bad work ethic with regards to homemaking…
Can you explain why your egalitarian view of marriage has almost a 50% divorce rate in the US if it is so successful??
While Christianity designed to elevate the character of the wife, and to make her a fit companion of an intelligent and pious husband, it did not intend to destroy all subordination and authority. Man, by the fact that he was first created; that the woman was taken from him; that he is better qualified for ruling than she is, is evidently designed to be at the head of the little community that constitutes a family. In many other things, woman may be his equal; in loveliness, and grace, and beauty, and tenderness, and gentleness, she is far his superior; but these are not the qualities adapted for government. Their place is in another sphere; and “there,” man should be as cautious about invading her prerogative, or abridging her liberty, as “she” should be about invading the prerogative that belongs to him. In every family there should be a head - someone who is to be looked up to as the counselor and the ruler; someone to whom all should be subordinate. God has given that prerogative to man; and no family prospers where that arrangement is violated. Within proper metes and limits, therefore, it is the duty of the wife to obey, or to submit herself to her husband. Those limits are such as the following:
- In domestic arrangements, the husband is to be regarded as the head of the family; and he has a right to direct as to the style of living, the expenses of the family, the clothing, etc.
- In regard to the laws which are to regulate the family, he is the head. It is his to say what is to be done; in what way the children are to employ themselves, and to give directions in regard to their education, etc.
- In business matters, the wife is to submit to the husband. She may counsel with him, if he chooses; but the affairs of business and property are under his control, and must be left at his disposal.
- In everything, except that which relates to “conscience and religion,” he has authority. But there his authority ceases. He has no right to require her to commit an act of dishonesty, to connive at wrong-doing, to visit a place of amusement which her conscience tells her is wrong, nor has he a right to interfere with the proper discharge of her religious duties. He has no right to forbid her to go to church at the proper and usual time, or to make a profession of religion when she pleases. He has no right to forbid her endeavoring to exercise a religious influence over her children, or to endeavor to lead them to God. She is bound to obey God, rather than any man (see the notes on Acts 4:19); and when even a husband interferes in such cases, and attempts to control her, he steps beyond his proper bounds, and invades the prerogative of God, and his authority ceases to be binding. It ought to be said, however, that in order to justify her acting independently in such a case, the following things are proper:
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Reservoir_Dog
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Then, am I wrong? Will the CC ever blame the woman for her own rape to some degree, however small?
Peterskeys, rather than string cite biblical quotations back at me which I promise not to read, I think this is a simple “yes or no” question.
Peterskeys, rather than string cite biblical quotations back at me which I promise not to read, I think this is a simple “yes or no” question.
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PetersKeys
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like I said, all situations aren’t the same, all motivations of rape aren’t the same. Sin begets more sin. Lustful clothing having nothing to do with rape is like saying alcohol has nothing to do with rape. yet alcohol is involved in almost 50% of all rape cases. Hence there are external factors depending on the situation involved. Increase those factors and the chance increases. Just as someone going to the ghetto and starting a fight will have a much greater chance of being killed than starting a fight in a white suburb. It is simple reality. I’m sorry reality is so difficult for you…
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Reservoir_Dog
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See above, will the CC ever blame a woman for her own rape, in any degree?
You’re claiming again that “reality is difficult for [me]” again. I asked you what your experience with rape was (consistent with your fifth amendment privilege) and, not unexpectedly, you declined to answer. Mine is as a former government prosecutor and defense counsel. What is yours?
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PatriceA
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Whoa, are you saying my body is not my private property?
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PetersKeys
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because, i keep telling you, it isn’t some black and white yes or no answer. It is dependent on many issues, the environment, the use of substances, violence, goading others, lust, infidelity, and other factors.
You actions are like saying someone is racist simply by saying that crime is usually more prevalent in black areas.
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PetersKeys
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did I say that? When you are on your own private property you can do almost whatever you want.
However when you go into a public forum the issues of your actions and consequences from them change drastically because you are sharing the same public space and other peoples. For instance you can run around naked in your house if you want. But you can’t do that in public, and any violence that comes towards you because of that is an issue that you instigated.
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Reservoir_Dog
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You’ve claimed I have no experience in the reality of rape and I’ve told you twice now what my professional experience was. What is yours?
You’re dodging a straightforward question, will the CC ever blame a woman in any degree for her own rape?
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Cracker_Mom
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I’m butting in because as a Catholic mom some of the posts in this thread continue to creep me out & are disturbing.
The simple answer to the OP’s question is “NO!” “No” in a modern court of law & “No” in the Catholic Church. And “No Way!” from me personally.
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Reservoir_Dog
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I know that, but that troll’s gotta dance.
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