Question: Can prayers or devotions equal the value of one Mass?

[LegoGE1947]

Calm down, ignorant is not always meant as derogatory. Stupid is derogatory, and my intent was never to call you stupid. If you took it that way please forgive me.

As a former boss of mine had a sign in his office. “Stupid is forever. Ignorant can be fixed!” Translated “I’m gonna believe what I want to and don’t confuse me with facts.” or “I don’t know all I should so please teach me!”

 

[irishpatrick]

As a former boss of mine had a sign in his office. “Stupid is forever. Ignorant can be fixed!” Translated “I’m gonna believe what I want to and don’t confuse me with facts.” or “I don’t know all I should so please teach me!”

Stupid is NOT forever.

Ignorance can be overcome.

Yet, reading meanings (that are not there) into written posts can lead to strife.

Translated, “Sometimes an honest question is just that, an honest question.”

 

[LegoGE1947]

Stupid is NOT forever.

Ignorance can be overcome.

Yet, reading meanings (that are not there) into written posts can lead to strife.

Translated, “Sometimes an honest question is just that, an honest question.”

And it deserves an honest answer, in love where possible.

 

[irishpatrick]

And it deserves an honest answer, in love where possible.

Of course. I agree 100%.

 

[irishpatrick]

To all,

Allow me to modify my OP question.

Do you believe that the Catholic Mass is the highest form of worship that any person on earth can engage in?

Put another way, can any number of prayers or devotions, no matter how many times they are said, equal the value of one Mass?

 

[Zosimus41]

With complete respect to all Protestants and non-Catholics on this board.

Worship is owed only to the Lord/God. Catholics, despite what many think, only worship Jesus (God), they do not worship Mary or the Saints, or statues.

When Catholics go to Mass, they can properly say they are worshipping the Lord because the Lord is Present in the Tabernacle, and than Jesus is truly Present later in the Mass during the celebration of the Holy Eucharist.

Is it proper to say Protestants, who do not have the Lord’s actual Presence in their Churches, are praising Jesus (God) during their services, rather than worshipping?

[again, submitted with sincere respect]

In my life time I have visited the baptist church, churh of Christ, JWs,So called non denominational churches.

Ive noticed one thing they never really kneel as worship. Which I believe is extremely important after all every kneel shall bend when in the presence of Jesus Christ. (You can read between the lines on that) I suppose their act of worship itself is all pretty much done through singing and the rest of the service is more of a bible study lesson than a sermon. It seems a bit hollow or shallow.

Where you can go to a Catholic Church anytime day or night and actually feel the presence of God. In their church it just feels like an empty building. If you know what I mean e.g. Jesus is present in the tabernacle.

 

[triumphguy]

To all,

Allow me to modify my OP question.

Do you believe that the Catholic Mass is the highest form of worship that any person on earth can engage in?

Put another way, can any number of prayers or devotions, no matter how many times they are said, equal the value of one Mass?

Yes… to the first question

and

No… to the second question

Because we are offering the actual sacrifice, death and resurrection of Christ to God the Father in the mass. What can ever equal that?

 

[Neofight]

To all,

Allow me to modify my OP question.

Do you believe that the Catholic Mass is the highest form of worship that any person on earth can engage in?

Put another way, can any number of prayers or devotions, no matter how many times they are said, equal the value of one Mass?

Yes and yes. But i do not believe that my God would view the “highest form” as less pleasing if it truly shows the love it was offered in.

And as far as being equal in value, that would be like saying the crown rosary is more pleasing to God than the Dominican because it has more decades.

My belief is God cares more about substance in prayer and worship than form and volume.

 

[irishpatrick]

Yes and yes. But i do not believe that my God would view the “highest form” as less pleasing if it truly shows the love it was offered in.

And as far as being equal in value, that would be like saying the crown rosary is more pleasing to God than the Dominican because it has more decades.

My belief is God cares more about substance in prayer and worship than form and volume.

How can any number of prayers said equal direct worship of the Risen Lord (God) in His Real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity?

[note: that does not diminish the value of prayer, it is just God Himself has a greater value than everything else]

 

[Neofight]

How can any number of prayers said equal direct worship of the Risen Lord (God) in His Real Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity?

[note: that does not diminish the value of prayer, it is just God Himself has a greater value than everything else]

With that logic, God sees those in areas where there is no clergy or church, or who must worship in hiding and can therefore only offer up prayers as disappointing Him? I think not! The last will be first comes to mind. But, that’s what is so wonderful about having a God who is divine instead of human.

 

[surritter]

With that logic, God sees those in areas where there is no clergy or church, or who must worship in hiding and can therefore only offer up prayers as disappointing Him? I think not! The last will be first comes to mind. But, that’s what is so wonderful about having a God who is divine instead of human.

Wow – completely missing the point. As Catholics, we believe that God the Son is the Perfect Sacrifice.
Yes, those who live in areas without clergy are obviously not at fault.
But your post obliquely stomps on the theology of the Redemption. And the theology of the Eucharist.

 

[irishpatrick]

With that logic, God sees those in areas where there is no clergy or church, or who must worship in hiding and can therefore only offer up prayers as disappointing Him? I think not! The last will be first comes to mind. But, that’s what is so wonderful about having a God who is divine instead of human.

I think it is sad that all of God’s Created Children do not go to Mass, for any number of a million reasons. Yet, that does not take away the fact that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the highest form of worship.

 

[Zosimus41]

I think it is sad that all of God’s Created Children do not go to Mass, for any number of a million reasons. Yet, that does not take away the fact that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the highest form of worship.

Well said.

 

[epan]

With complete respect to all Protestants and non-Catholics on this board.

Worship is owed only to the Lord/God. Catholics, despite what many think, only worship Jesus (God), they do not worship Mary or the Saints, or statues.

When Catholics go to Mass, they can properly say they are worshipping the Lord because the Lord is Present in the Tabernacle, and than Jesus is truly Present later in the Mass during the celebration of the Holy Eucharist.

Is it proper to say Protestants, who do not have the Lord’s actual Presence in their Churches, are praising Jesus (God) during their services, rather than worshipping?

[again, submitted with sincere respect]

God is not present in your life, unless you are in Church? Your prayers are unheard, unless you at a particular GPS location?

 

[irishpatrick]

God is not present in your life, unless you are in Church? Your prayers are unheard, unless you at a particular GPS location?

God hears our prayers, obviously, no matter where we are. Yet, we are not talking only prayer, we are talking about worship.

 

[po18guy]

It strikes me that in the OT, there was no worship without sacrifice. Now, Jesus is our sacrifice, but we are also members of His Body, and so can offer ourselves as a sacrifice in combination with worship. At the offertory during the mass, we offer our sacrifice - even of our very selves - as members of the Body of Christ, to the Father. It is similar to the old “faith and works” equation: one should naturally proceed alongside the other.

 

[Pinoycat]

With complete respect to all Protestants and non-Catholics on this board.

Worship is owed only to the Lord/God. Catholics, despite what many think, only worship Jesus (God), they do not worship Mary or the Saints, or statues.

When Catholics go to Mass, they can properly say they are worshipping the Lord because the Lord is Present in the Tabernacle, and than Jesus is truly Present later in the Mass during the celebration of the Holy Eucharist.

Is it proper to say Protestants, who do not have the Lord’s actual Presence in their Churches, are praising Jesus (God) during their services, rather than worshipping?

[again, submitted with sincere respect]

Praising is a form of Worship, but we Catholics ADORE God during Mass.

 

[Gods_Peace]

Irishpatrick,

I’d say the folks at my church worship during our service, indeed they worship God in all aspects of their lives; “I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.” (Rom 12:1).

I would also contest we most certainly have the Lord present with us in church, “For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” (Matt 18:20). Of course however, we do not adhere to the understanding of communion as it is in the RCC, but I still think its quite plain, Protestants most certainly have the presence of God with them as they draw near to Him by faith, presenting their bodies and lives as sacrifices too Him (1 Pet 2:5).

Regards

Lincs

But has your church community been around 30 A.D.? You can only feel God if you let him in, and the strongest presence of God leads you to the Catholic Church, the Church that has been around for 2000 years and counting. We have the Holy Spirit, and ALL OF THE PROPHETS ON OUR SIDE.

 

[Roy5]

Sorry, but any assertion that only one expression of religion is totally valid, and the rest are inferior, is at the root of religious bigotry. It has caused horrendous wars, bitter persecution, and flagrant arrogance - and still does today. This overbearing and warped attitude was exemplified by Pius IX in his jingoistic “Syllabus of Errors” 150+ years ago. Thank God for John XXIII and Vatican II which pointed in a different direction. Fortunately, most Catholics I know aren’t infected by prejudice against fellow Christians and their earnest efforts to serve our one God.

We all are together on this planet, none of us has a monopoly on truth, and God is far beyond human comprehension - that's what makes God God.  As Christians, we need to express humility, understanding, and love, rather than be trapped by pride, pomposity and presumptuousness. Jesus certainly disdained the attitude of imperiousness exhibited by the Pharisees and others who thought they alone had access to the correct form of faith. 

 Let us work together to make religion a bridge rather than a barrier. May God bless those of every creed, color, culture and country. No exceptions.

 

[surritter]

Roy – I’m really struggling to see which war was caused by Pius IX’s Syllabus of Errors. Methinks you’re exaggerating.

There is indeed one form of worship that is higher than all others. That is the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ. If you can find a church that allows congregants to integrate themselves into that sacrifice – body, blood, soul, and divinity – then you should certainly join that church. Is that a bigoted piece of advice?

The point of this thread is that the only Church that has that complete sacrifice of Jesus in sacramental form is the Catholic (and Orthodox) Church. To make such an assertion is not to incite hatred or war.
Please stop with the relativistic banter – of course God loves all people equally. But there are certain “bridges” that can unite us to Him more effectively than others.