Question concerning gay pride parades

[SMGS127]

They have superficial similarities but where the rubber hits the road they are fundamentally distinct. An African-American person cannot change racial identity, would not want to, does not have to, and will not suffer the fires of Hell for remaining black. Black culture is not inherently sinful, well not any more so than any other race’s culture. Homosexualists define themselves by a singular sin, an abomination, depravity, a human aberration. The Church calls it “intrinsically disordered”. The Church has never used such language for race.

Actually, you have it completely wrong. A gay or lesbian person cannot change sexual identity, usually would not want to, does not have to, and will not suffer the fires of Hell for remaining gay or lesbian. Gay or lesbian culture is not inherently sinful, not anymore so than heterosexual culture. So they are exactly the same thing.

You are refusing to separate a person’s orientation (an immutable quality on par with race, and what Pride parades and gay/lesbian acceptance programs are about) from a person’s sexual behavior.

 

[janjic222]

Actually, you have it completely wrong. A gay or lesbian person cannot change sexual identity, usually would not want to, does not have to, and will not suffer the fires of Hell for remaining gay or lesbian. Gay or lesbian culture is not inherently sinful, not anymore so than heterosexual culture. So they are exactly the same thing.

You are refusing to separate a person’s orientation (an immutable quality on par with race, and what Pride parades and gay/lesbian acceptance programs are about) from a person’s sexual behavior.

Your teaching is heretical. Homosexuality is banned by Bible and inabile Church documents. If heterosexual can live in sexual absinence, sodomite can as well.

 

[PutresOmega]

I don’t want to sound too uncharitable, but is there a particularly good way to ban gay pride parades without violating the First Amendment to the United States Constitution?

Can’t be done without making sodomy a crime again. The likelihood of that happening is not high either as good people in the United States have come to outnumber evil people, generally. While we may have some moral issues that we still work through, most people these days have a functioning conscience and empathy thanks to actually knowing homosexual people, leaving the tyrannical, overtly evil, bigots to cry ineffectually on forums and the internet at large fantasizing of a world where they still have their “Freedom of Speech”, can ship the gays off to some foreign country to be killed (Nigeria, to pick a random location out of a hat, for instance), or claim that homosexuals can change and that makes them totally different from black people and, as such, those damn, dirty gays totally deserve everything that is coming to them.

*Read: The privilege to bully gays and push bad science without getting called on it in the public square.

I don’t really care for the black pride month / parade events. I don’t like the music and it’s too loud. I also don’t like the way that some of “them” conduct themselves. I personally find some of the things “they” do personally offensive.

I don’t want to sound too uncharitable, but is there a particularly good way to ban black pride parades and events without violating the First Amendment to the United States Constitution?

Sounds familiar…….

A bit off topic but related to like half the posts in this thread; if you want to find out why these people don’t see the hypocrisy and will defend the intellectually indefensible to the death I highly suggest reading “The Authoritarians” by Bob Altemeyer. Perfectly describes the mentality that can call black people Sons of Ham for a century then turn around and claim that gays are totally an abomination and we were wrong before but totes right now without any sense of irony. To be fair, this is more befitting Protestants who actually pushed miscegenation stuff (the Church was on the right side there as I recall) but the pathology of the Right Wing Authoritarian Follower is the same across the full spectrum whether they be Baptist, Catholic, Communist, Tory, Tea Party, or Taliban. Same T-Shirt, different logo.

 

[SMGS127]

Your teaching is heretical. Homosexuality is banned by Bible and inabile Church documents. If heterosexual can live in sexual absinence, sodomite can as well.

a) There are heterosexual sodomites; they are not mutually exclusive groups.

b) Being gay or lesbian is not banned by the Bible or Church documents. The Church really couldn’t “ban” someone from being gay or lesbian anymore than she could “ban” someone from being female or “ban” someone from being Caucasian or “ban” someone from being 26-years-old. That doesn’t make any sense.

Same-sex genital/sexual activity is banned by the Bible and Church documents.

 

[janjic222]

a) There are heterosexual sodomites; they are not mutually exclusive groups.

b) Being gay or lesbian is not banned by the Bible or Church documents. The Church really couldn’t “ban” someone from being gay or lesbian anymore than she could “ban” someone from being female or “ban” someone from being Caucasian or “ban” someone from being 26-years-old. That doesn’t make any sense.

Same-sex genital/sexual activity is banned by the Bible and Church documents.

You said that there is nothing wrong with “gay culture” since gay rights activusts believe it’s OK for a man to have sex with man and for a woman to have sex with a woman. Teaching of Church about homosexuality is same as it’s teaching on bestiality. And would you say that there is nothing wrong with culture of bestiality?

 

[SMGS127]

You said that there is nothing wrong with “gay culture” since gay rights activusts believe it’s OK for a man to have sex with man and for a woman to have sex with a woman. Teaching of Church about homosexuality is same as it’s teaching on bestiality. And would you say that there is nothing wrong with culture of bestiality?

Uhhh >_>. What?

Gay culture is stuff like Tegan & Sara, Glee, Indigo Girls, etc.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I don’t want to sound too uncharitable, but is there a particularly good way to ban gay pride parades without violating the First Amendment to the United States Constitution?

No.

Sure there is.

1. Outlaw sodomy again.
2. Outlaw public expressions intended to promote criminal behavior.

And done!

Unfortunately #1 in the United States involves overturning a Supreme Court decision. So there are two that we need to go after.

As long as you include heterosexual sodomy as outlawed and equally enforce it instead of specifically targeting LGBT I’m okay with that.

You’re asking that question with the present administration we have running this country…and they weren’t banned under the previous administration neither…and you can bet they won’t be banned under any future administration…many "Christians "nowadays condone homosexuality…gay marriage…gay adoptions…as well as abortion…living together outside of marriage…and so on…now those of us who oppose these things are branded as hateful bigots…religious nuts…living in the past…it’s to late to change things again…just pray that we will be able to face the coming persecution of our faith

The president can’t actually do that.

Amandmant?

Too bad they haven’t invented a system that can check the spelling of typed words for computers.

They have superficial similarities but where the rubber hits the road they are fundamentally distinct. An African-American person cannot change racial identity, would not want to, does not have to, and will not suffer the fires of Hell for remaining black. Black culture is not inherently sinful, well not any more so than any other race’s culture. Homosexualists define themselves by a singular sin, an abomination, depravity, a human aberration. The Church calls it “intrinsically disordered”. The Church has never used such language for race.

LGBT people don’t “define themselves by a singular sin, an abomination, depravity, a human aberration”, you are the one who defines them by that.

You said that there is nothing wrong with “gay culture” since gay rights activusts believe it’s OK for a man to have sex with man and for a woman to have sex with a woman. Teaching of Church about homosexuality is same as it’s teaching on bestiality. And would you say that there is nothing wrong with culture of bestiality?

Gay culture is no more about sex than mainstream culture (in the case of lesbian culture probably less so).

 

[janjic222]

Uhhh >_>. What?

Gay culture is stuff like Tegan & Sara, Glee, Indigo Girls, etc.

What are you talking about? What makes gay culture if not gay people? And by having a culture that is 100% gay, how can you claim that homosexual act is immoral?

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

What are you talking about? What makes gay culture if not gay people? And by having a culture that is 100% gay, how can you claim that homosexual act is immoral?

Side B gay Christians in fact say that gay sex is immoral, they are very much part of gay culture.

 

[chefmomster2]

You said that there is nothing wrong with “gay culture” since gay rights activusts believe it’s OK for a man to have sex with man and for a woman to have sex with a woman. Teaching of Church about homosexuality is same as it’s teaching on bestiality. And would you say that there is nothing wrong with culture of bestiality?

I find your comparison to bestiality to be lacking in charity and respect for gay persons. The teaching on bestiality is NOT comparable, nor does the RCC compare them.

It is actually more correctly compared to the teaching of celibacy for singles. Neither heterosexuality nor homosexuality is in itself sinful. The Church consistently teaches that it is sexuality outside of the unitive and procreative purposes of the sacramental marriahe of a man amd a woman that is sinful.

Here is the Church’s comparison:

From the USCCB:
Because of both Original Sin and personal sin, moral disorder is all too common in our world. **There are a variety of acts, such as adultery, fornication, masturbation, and contraception, that violate the proper ends of human sexuality. Homosexual acts also violate the true purpose of sexuality. They are sexual acts that cannot be open to life. Nor do they reflect the complementarity of man and woman that is an integral part of God’s design for human sexuality.8 Consequently, the Catholic Church has consistently taught that homosexual acts **“are contrary to the natural law. . . . Under no circumstances can they be approved.”9

The homosexual inclination is objectively disordered, i.e., it is an inclination that predisposes one toward what is truly not good for the human person.14 Of course, heterosexual persons not uncommonly have disordered sexual inclinations as well. It is not enough for a sexual inclination to be heterosexual for it to be properly ordered. **For example, any tendency toward sexual pleasure that is not subordinated to the greater goods of love and marriage is disordered, in that it inclines a person towards a use of sexuality that does not accord with the divine plan for creation. **There is the intrinsic disorder of what is directed toward that which is evil in all cases (contra naturam). There is also the accidental disorder of what is not properly ordered by right reason, what fails to attain the proper measure of virtue (contra rationem).15

The Church also teaches love and respect for all persons INCLUDING homosexuals.

From the USCCB:

**In keeping with this conviction, the Church teaches that persons with a homosexual inclination “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.”/B]2 We recognize that these persons have been, and often continue to be, objects of scorn, hatred, and even violence in some sectors of our society. Sometimes this hatred is manifested clearly; other times, it is masked and gives rise to more disguised forms of hatred. “**It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs.”**3

Those who would minister in the name of the Church must in no way contribute to such injustice. They should **prayerfully examine their own hearts in order to discern any thoughts or feelings that might stand in need of purification. **Those who minister are also called to growth in holiness. In fact, the work of spreading the Good News involves an ever-increasing love for those to whom one is ministering by calling them to the truth of Jesus Christ.4

Please reconsider your statement in light of the Church’s requirement that we treat gay persons with sensitivity.**

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

You said that there is nothing wrong with “gay culture” since gay rights activusts believe it’s OK for a man to have sex with man and for a woman to have sex with a woman. Teaching of Church about homosexuality is same as it’s teaching on bestiality. And would you say that there is nothing wrong with culture of bestiality?

Church teaching about gay sex is the same as Church teaching on nonvaginal heterosexual sex.

 

[Corki]

Church teaching about gay sex is the same as Church teaching on nonvaginal heterosexual sex.

No it isn’t! The latter is sometimes permissible if the couple is married and finishes in a manner ordered to procreation. The former is **always **gravely immoral.

 

[SMGS127]

No it isn’t! The latter is sometimes permissible if the couple is married and finishes in a manner ordered to procreation. The former is **always **gravely immoral.

What Joie means is that the Church teaching on homosexual sex is the same as the Church teaching on nonvaginal heterosexual sex to completion. Which is true.

 

[SMGS127]

What are you talking about? What makes gay culture if not gay people? And by having a culture that is 100% gay, how can you claim that homosexual act is immoral?

What on Earth do you think gay culture is?

 

[marymary1975]

Hi Tarpeian, I see you are from Massachusetts. We are neighbors as I am from Rhode Island right next door.

We are all neighbors I am in Massachusetts too :hug1: and yes as tarpeian mentioned, just look at when st Patrick’s parade here was taken to court.

 

[janjic222]

What on Earth do you think gay culture is?

Idk, I’m from Croatia. We don’t have the thing you are talking about here… So you are saying that part of “gay culture” condemns homosexual act and thoughts? I don’t undrestand… How can somebody be proud of being sick and still claim that ot’s sin to do sick act?

 

[SMGS127]

Idk, I’m from Croatia. We don’t have the thing you are talking about here… So you are saying that part of “gay culture” condemns homosexual act and thoughts? I don’t undrestand… How can somebody be proud of being sick and still claim that ot’s sin to do sick act?

Gay culture, as a generality, is value-neutral towards same-sex acts. It merely celebrates who you are as a person. For example, Tegan & Sara are both lesbians, but their music in no way reveals this. Yet lesbians [usually] love their music and they are rightly called part of gay culture. However, they’d always be part of gay culture whether or not they were actively gay.

It is true that most subsets of gay culture involve shows, movies, etc. that involve actively gay couples/people, but this has more to do with the fact that most gay people are actively gay. In a different world, where Catholic teaching was represented appropriately and Protestantism didn’t exist, gay culture might showcase the celibate gay person much more.

 

[on_the_hill]

I don’t want to sound too uncharitable, but is there a particularly good way to ban gay pride parades without violating the First Amendment to the United States Constitution?

No, there isn’t. We The People have the right to peaceably assemble, whether we’re gay, Nazis, labor unions, or stamp collectors.

 

[Elizium23]

Gay culture, as a generality, is value-neutral towards same-sex acts. It merely celebrates who you are as a person. For example, Tegan & Sara are both lesbians, but their music in no way reveals this. Yet lesbians [usually] love their music and they are rightly called part of gay culture. However, they’d always be part of gay culture whether or not they were actively gay.

It is true that most subsets of gay culture involve shows, movies, etc. that involve actively gay couples/people, but this has more to do with the fact that most gay people are actively gay. In a different world, where Catholic teaching was represented appropriately and Protestantism didn’t exist, gay culture might showcase the celibate gay person much more.

I almost injured myself from rolling my eyes so hard. So homosexual culture is about celebrating who you are and not what you do? So how come homosexualists are so fixated on legislating the ability to do at not just to be? If the culture was unconcerned about doing then nobody would be very eager to ram through same-sex marriage. Nobody would be interested in striking down sodomy laws. Nobody would be interested in supporting a whole host of infertile sexual acts that come under the umbrella of Population Control.

No, I contend that homosexual culture is extremely fixated on doing rather than being, and some of the most strident activists show a distinct inability to separate the two concepts.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I almost injured myself from rolling my eyes so hard. So homosexual culture is about celebrating who you are and not what you do? So how come homosexualists are so fixated on legislating the ability to do at not just to be? If the culture was unconcerned about doing then nobody would be very eager to ram through same-sex marriage. Nobody would be interested in striking down sodomy laws. Nobody would be interested in supporting a whole host of infertile sexual acts that come under the umbrella of Population Control.

No, I contend that homosexual culture is extremely fixated on doing rather than being, and some of the most strident activists show a distinct inability to separate the two concepts.

Same sex marriage isn’t about engaging in sex. That gay culture doesn’t revolve around sex doesn’t mean that most of those people wouldn’t be very interested in getting sodomy laws struck down given that most of those people are sexually active.

That’s fairly mild compared to some of the stuff I’ve seen.