Question for Adventists.....

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fishisgood

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How are you comfortable being in a Church that was started by someone who made a prophetic statement that never came true (William Miller)??? Since your curch was founded in 1844 where were christians for one thousand eight hundred years?
 
Why, when i played in an adventist basketball league was i told to not tell anyone I was Catholic??? Trying to get an adventist perspective here.
 
Don’t forget the false prophecies of Ellen G. White, as well.

BTW–did you know that the name “Ellen Gould White” adds up to 666?

But in fairness to William Miller, he did not claim to prophesy (as EGW did).
 
fishisgood said:
How are you comfortable being in a Church that was started by someone who made a prophetic statement that never came true (William Miller)??? Since your curch was founded in 1844 where were christians for one thousand eight hundred years?
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Christ is risen!

I, too, have wondered the same thing. I still don’t understand why they still exist as a denomination and why it wasn’t disbanded. The same thing for the JWs and other “Apocalypse-seeker” groups. I guess their still thinking that it will eventually happen for them one day and want to say “gotcha!”🤷 Joke’s on them!

In Christ,
Andrew
 
I know there are adventists on here… ive seen them in other threads explaining whats wrong with the original Church… No comments??? Do adventists discuss this in Sunday school… I mean Saturday school? How do you explain how your church began and how can it contain truth when it was started by false (or mistaken) prophesy.
 
Hello. It is nice though slightly nervous to be joining my first ever forum, especially a Catholic Forum…being a Seventh-day Adventist Christian, emphasis on the Christian!!

I will say that I believe there are True Christians, True Believers within the Roman Catholic Church. Also, in this 21st Century even the Organization of the Roman Catholic Church is fairly benign…I am being as kind as I can because I recognize that many individuals within the Catholic Church will be in heaven, there will probably even be popes in heaven, because they are God’s children too and be living up to the light that they have, which I believe God recognizes in the Judgment.

As for Adventists, I am a Christian first, while believing in what the Seventh-day Adventist Church believes. Our beliefs tend to be twisted badly in ‘one liners’, rather than taking time to understand the whole doctrine or belief under discussion.

We keep the Sabbath (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) simply because we love the Lord Jesus Christ and want to obey Him, because of what He has done for me!!

Yes there are many other sides to it I agree, BUT, all those sides should be presented in love for the individual hearing it, never should doctrine be used to bash e.g. Catholics or anyone else!

Let us discuss as Christians who love the Lord and EACH OTHER, always as kind as we can be even though we may disagree. If need be Agree to Disagree. Yes?

So Hi all you members out there and I look forward to…discussing…and enjoying the debate!! Michael Hamblin.
 
Hi fellow members. William Miller 1844 and all that!!

First of all William Miller was a Christian who believed in the Bible. He studied it for years with we believe the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He wrestled with the Lord when he made his Prophetic discovery in the Scriptures, he did not want to present it. ‘I cannot preach Lord, choose someone else to give this message’! He wrestled and wrestled until he came to an ‘agreement’ with God. If You Lord are going to use me to give this message, let me asked to preach. William Miller was a ‘simple’ farmer, he had never preached or been asked to preach.

He had only made this agreement, within the day, he was asked to preach because a church was let down by a preacher…I cannot remember which church it was, just one of the local Protestant denominations.

Did the Prophecy fail? In human terms it certainly looked like it! The Lord is coming in October 1844…the Lord did not come. Actually the Prophecy was about the Cleansing of the Sanctuary! All Churches then believed that the Sanctuary in Scripture was this WORLD!! Therefore, if the World was to be cleansed, then…the Lord must be coming back to cleanse it, yeah, would seem to be obvious?

Now, what the Cleansing of the Sanctuary really was, at least according to us Adventists, is the Cleansing of the Sanctuary in Heaven…
The Jewish Sanctuary was built after ‘a Pattern’ which God gave them. A Pattern of the Sanctuary which already existed, in some form, in Heaven. So it was the Heavenly Sanctuary which was to be cleansed…why would anything in Heaven need cleansed???

Christians had been confessing sins for many years, from Adam and Eve in fact…believers in the Creator God had been confessing their sins. The animal sacrifices were simply, parables, object lessons, pointing to the Lamb of God who would be ‘slain from the foundation of the world’. Lord Jesus always intended offering Himself for Man, the only answer to what the Rebel Lucifer had started, SIN, either paid by the eternal death of the sinner, or by the Death of the Son of God in the sinner’s place!!

To put bluntly, the Cleansing of the Sanctuary is God’s Judgment. When the Lord Jesus Christ returns as King at his Second Coming, His Reward is with Him…He ALREADY KNOWS who is going home with Him and who is not…because the Judgment has already taken place…then the next ‘Judgment’ will be the Saved, Redeemed of Planet Earth, AUDITING the Books of Heaven…why is (excuse me) this Pope in heaven? Why is that murderer in Heaven? Why is that Adventist in Heaven? Because they have been Redeemed through the Blood of the Lamb!!

Sorry to be so long, but one liners are not good brothers!

To finish…God runs an OPEN GOVERNMENT! Every thing will be open to scrutiny…the Books of Record will be opened and the whole Universe (not aliens, unfallen beings on other worlds?) will see why that Pope or Adventist or murderer is in Heaven for Eternity.
And after the Lesson Book of this world, Sin, Suffering, War, Disease, Death, Man’s inhumanity to man, the Wages of Sin is Death, no one will want a REPEAT!!

No one will want to rebel ever again. Of course Hell comes in here where all the unsaved who chose to reject God’s offer of Salvation, and Lucifer, the Devil will be ‘burned up’ and NO ONE will want to go through it all again. God’s Love will have the Victory, Eternal Happiness and Exploration of the Universe without a spaceship…Michael.
 
Brother2 said:
Hi fellow members. William Miller 1844 and all that!!

First of all William Miller was a Christian who believed in the Bible. He studied it for years with we believe the guidance of the Holy Spirit. He wrestled with the Lord when he made his Prophetic discovery in the Scriptures, he did not want to present it. ‘I cannot preach Lord, choose someone else to give this message’! He wrestled and wrestled until he came to an ‘agreement’ with God. If You Lord are going to use me to give this message, let me asked to preach. William Miller was a ‘simple’ farmer, he had never preached or been asked to preach.

He had only made this agreement, within the day, he was asked to preach because a church was let down by a preacher…I cannot remember which church it was, just one of the local Protestant denominations.

Did the Prophecy fail? In human terms it certainly looked like it! The Lord is coming in October 1844…the Lord did not come. Actually the Prophecy was about the Cleansing of the Sanctuary! All Churches then believed that the Sanctuary in Scripture was this WORLD!! Therefore, if the World was to be cleansed, then…the Lord must be coming back to cleanse it, yeah, would seem to be obvious?

Now, what the Cleansing of the Sanctuary really was, at least according to us Adventists, is the Cleansing of the Sanctuary in Heaven…
The Jewish Sanctuary was built after ‘a Pattern’ which God gave them. A Pattern of the Sanctuary which already existed, in some form, in Heaven. So it was the Heavenly Sanctuary which was to be cleansed…why would anything in Heaven need cleansed???

Christians had been confessing sins for many years, from Adam and Eve in fact…believers in the Creator God had been confessing their sins. The animal sacrifices were simply, parables, object lessons, pointing to the Lamb of God who would be ‘slain from the foundation of the world’. Lord Jesus always intended offering Himself for Man, the only answer to what the Rebel Lucifer had started, SIN, either paid by the eternal death of the sinner, or by the Death of the Son of God in the sinner’s place!!

To put bluntly, the Cleansing of the Sanctuary is God’s Judgment. When the Lord Jesus Christ returns as King at his Second Coming, His Reward is with Him…He ALREADY KNOWS who is going home with Him and who is not…because the Judgment has already taken place…then the next ‘Judgment’ will be the Saved, Redeemed of Planet Earth, AUDITING the Books of Heaven…why is (excuse me) this Pope in heaven? Why is that murderer in Heaven? Why is that Adventist in Heaven? Because they have been Redeemed through the Blood of the Lamb!!

Sorry to be so long, but one liners are not good brothers!

To finish…God runs an OPEN GOVERNMENT! Every thing will be open to scrutiny…the Books of Record will be opened and the whole Universe (not aliens, unfallen beings on other worlds?) will see why that Pope or Adventist or murderer is in Heaven for Eternity.
And after the Lesson Book of this world, Sin, Suffering, War, Disease, Death, Man’s inhumanity to man, the Wages of Sin is Death, no one will want a REPEAT!!

No one will want to rebel ever again. Of course Hell comes in here where all the unsaved who chose to reject God’s offer of Salvation, and Lucifer, the Devil will be ‘burned up’ and NO ONE will want to go through it all again. God’s Love will have the Victory, Eternal Happiness and Exploration of the Universe without a spaceship…Michael.
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Thanks for the responses… this is what I was looking for. Although I still dont understand how one is comfortable following a sect that was built on a prophecy that never came true and the dates where changed. You say it was a mis interpritation of the sanctuary… that seems rather convenient. I always thought the Bible told us to beware of false profits… does it not.
 
Hi. I understand your point of view and you are quite entitled to your opinion.

What I would say though is that the Adventist Church is not built on any Prophecy. Certainly Prophecy is a big part of our message. But actually, we are built on the Lord Jesus Christ, Creator, Saviour and soon returning King. Just like other Protestant Churches the Adventist Church is built on the Bible and the Bible alone…yes we have our own prophet, even though Ellen White never wanted to be called a prophet, she preferred messenger. She also said that her message was the lesser light leading to the Greater Light of Scripture. As a Christian Church the Bible is always First!

I am glad that I was able to offer at least part of what you were looking for. Your friend, Michael.

PS. With respect the Seventh-day Adventist Church was actually formed in the 1860’s. The earlier group were the Millerites in 1844.
 
Brother2 said:
Hi. I understand your point of view and you are quite entitled to your opinion.

What I would say though is that the Adventist Church is not built on any Prophecy. Certainly Prophecy is a big part of our message. But actually, we are built on the Lord Jesus Christ, Creator, Saviour and soon returning King. Just like other Protestant Churches the Adventist Church is built on the Bible and the Bible alone…yes we have our own prophet, even though Ellen White never wanted to be called a prophet, she preferred messenger. She also said that her message was the lesser light leading to the Greater Light of Scripture. As a Christian Church the Bible is always First!

I am glad that I was able to offer at least part of what you were looking for. Your friend, Michael.

PS. With respect the Seventh-day Adventist Church was actually formed in the 1860’s. The earlier group were the Millerites in 1844.
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Thanks,
Though it does not seem that you are Bible only. You have added the prophecy of Ellen White and use the Bible along with that… correct? That seems different than Sola Scriptura… Again since you were formed in the 1860’s where were Christians for 1860 years.
 
I am not sure that you can call yourself Christian (with all due respect of course).’

But it seems to me that SDAs are more Jewish than Christian with:

The big emphasis on the Jewish sabbath.

Eating Kosher, no pork, no fishwithout fins and scales, no trefe food allowed, calling any food “unclean”.

The big emphasis on the Law of Moses, and especially the ten commandments.

All of this points to me a theology that is more Jewish thaan Christian.
 
pipper said:
I am not sure that you can call yourself Christian (with all due respect of course).’

But it seems to me that SDAs are more Jewish than Christian with:

The big emphasis on the Jewish sabbath.

Eating Kosher, no pork, no fishwithout fins and scales, no trefe food allowed, calling any food “unclean”.

The big emphasis on the Law of Moses, and especially the ten commandments.

All of this points to me a theology that is more Jewish thaan Christian.
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Well, they do believe that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon talked about in the NT. :rolleyes:
 
Ha Ha Wow! I think we can go around in circles for weeks here, but its fun…

Jewish or Godly Biblical?? Is it possible that error from the prince of lies Lucifer (he has had fun with humans for the last 6000 years or more…what about Sunday? Where did it come from…now I know that you know what we Adventists believe on that so I am not going to repeat it, partly because I respect you all too much…!

Just, what if Saturday Sabbath is Biblical and Sunday only has a few mentions in the New Testament and I know how Catholics and Protestants explain those, (what is the difference between Catholics and Protestants anyway? the Reformation is nearly extinct!) but my contention is it is like Political Spin…spinned to one’s own advantage…though we can all be accused of that I am well aware…

4 or 5 verses that just mention the First day of the week but only off hand, no Command no thou shalt, surely if Lord Jesus was going to change His day of worship, being Lord of the Sabbath…I believe he would have spelt it out, or at least His disciples would have…but NO, just a few mentions, in passing that could have been the 4th day of the week or any day, there is just nothing special attached to them…
Early Christians were like a Commune they broke bread together every day…collect the money together Paul says and then when I come it will be ready for me…

Come on fellas and lassies…I believe in Scripture and I also believe in Reason…and to me its just not reasonable to use Scripture to explain the change of the Sabbath, the proof is not there! Like, seventh-day Sabbath would stand up in a court of Law, but Sunday would’nt…the sayings of the Church Fathers would need to be brought in and the Authority of the Church…

You well know that I could fill pages but I respect you all too much to do so…sufficient to say THAT, Wait for it brothers…Adventist are the only True Protestants…that must be a lynching offence surely…

Sorry to any Protestant I have offended but that is just what I believe. Michael Hamblin.
 
Brother2 said:
Ha Ha Wow! I think we can go around in circles for weeks here, but its fun…

Jewish or Godly Biblical?? Is it possible that error from the prince of lies Lucifer (he has had fun with humans for the last 6000 years or more…what about Sunday? Where did it come from…now I know that you know what we Adventists believe on that so I am not going to repeat it, partly because I respect you all too much…!

Just, what if Saturday Sabbath is Biblical and Sunday only has a few mentions in the New Testament and I know how Catholics and Protestants explain those, (what is the difference between Catholics and Protestants anyway? the Reformation is nearly extinct!) but my contention is it is like Political Spin…spinned to one’s own advantage…though we can all be accused of that I am well aware…

4 or 5 verses that just mention the First day of the week but only off hand, no Command no thou shalt, surely if Lord Jesus was going to change His day of worship, being Lord of the Sabbath…I believe he would have spelt it out, or at least His disciples would have…but NO, just a few mentions, in passing that could have been the 4th day of the week or any day, there is just nothing special attached to them…
Early Christians were like a Commune they broke bread together every day…collect the money together Paul says and then when I come it will be ready for me…

Come on fellas and lassies…I believe in Scripture and I also believe in Reason…and to me its just not reasonable to use Scripture to explain the change of the Sabbath, the proof is not there! Like, seventh-day Sabbath would stand up in a court of Law, but Sunday would’nt…the sayings of the Church Fathers would need to be brought in and the Authority of the Church…

You well know that I could fill pages but I respect you all too much to do so…sufficient to say THAT, Wait for it brothers…Adventist are the only True Protestants…that must be a lynching offence surely…

Sorry to any Protestant I have offended but that is just what I believe. Michael Hamblin.
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If you believe in Reason then you must be honest with yourself and realize that your “church” has only been in existence for about 150 years. History is not on your side nor is faith in a vacuum. That is why you MUST continue to ignore the Church Fathers & Authority. Afraid of what’ll you’ll find perhaps?
 
History or Church Fathers where will I begin…well, I have hacked into the Vatican website, I have been in the Catholic Encyclopedia and that other one, the second bible…remind me…ah yes the Catechism…sorry bout that…so I know a fair bit about the Church Fathers…

Now the history part which was the longest page…oh well here we go again…Take 3!!..the Early Church consisted of the Apostles and the followers of the Risen Lord yeah?..they were persecuted by the Jews and later by the state, Pagan Rome…until Constantine came along and was converted to or claimed to be converted to Christianity…and to keep the peoples of the Empire happy as possible he began to mix some Paganism into Christianity, married them together to keep the peace between the Pagans and the Christians…however, Christian remain more faithful to Truth when under Persecution as history records, so for the sake of peace many Christians gradually accepted these ‘modifications’ to their Faith…this continued until the Barbarians sacked Rome and power was transferred to the Bishop of Rome…nay historians out there will agree with most of that…??

However in some parts of the world Christians tried to keep separate from the Roman Branch of Christianity, African Christians especially the Ethiopians, even the Celtic Church of Britain and Ireland, the Waldensians of Northen Italy and others…until the Missionaries of the Roman Church appeared on their shores and tried to ‘persuade’ them to come over to the Roman Church, even began persecuting their fellow Christians to force them over to Rome…the Ethiopians held out the longest and even today the Ethiopian Churches observe both Saturday and Sunday as holy days…then the Great Reformation…

The Reformers did not want to leave the Roman Church, they wanted to reform it from inside…Wycliff, Luther, Huss, Calvin and others…eventually were excomunicated and had to form the Protestant Churches…Lutherans, Presbytarians etc. and later the Church of England although it was basically the English Catholic Church of King Henry V111…so these Protestant Churches in some cases continued to search for a way to return to the doctrines of the Early Church, and continued to rediscover Truth from Scripture and throw the errors that had crept into the Roman Church…the tares planted amongst the wheat by the father of lies, Lucifer the archdeceiver…but many Protestant Churches stopped at where their Reformer father had stopped…however the Methodists appeared out of the Church of England…John and Charles Wesley were later reformers who carried on searching for Truth from Scripture and throwing out more of the errors still carried over form Rome (no offence meant friends) and then the Baptist Church of course, all this happened over time by a process of evolution if you like…

William Miller who I believe was in the line of the Reformers searching to find more Truth from Scripture…and by the way he was not the only ONE!!! There were others like him across the world, just like at the start of the Great Reformation, it was another mini Reformation happening again…the Churches of the time were to put it bluntly, drowsy even gone to sleep as regards searching Scriptures, they had got ‘stagnant’…at the time there was the great hope of a thousand years of peace in the world that the human race were getting better and better and the glorious millenium would be ushered in, world peace, technology was increasing, wars were being done away with, and then Lord Jesus would Return at end of the Millenium to a world ready for Him…

So the Millerites and other Groups across the world were used by God to WAKE UP Christianity especially the Protestant Churches, um, the Pope was taken prisoner at this time remember…1798 and poor man died in Avignion ha cannot spell it off hand…so a great awakening across the Protestant world…tell me this friends do you think it would wake up the world by preaching about the ‘Cleansing of the Sanctuary in Heaven’???

Somehow I think not, er pardon…what was that again? ‘cleansing a sanctuary in heaven’ ‘what rubbish is that?’ At any rate it would’nt have woken anyone up, probably put them to sleep more like huh?..so could it be that God ALLOWED the MISTAKEN prophecy and used it as His tool to sound the Trumpet…WAKE UP PEOPLE I HAVE A MESSAGE FOR YOU, WAKE UP!!!

Well anyway to cut a long story short, 'What were the rest of the Christian world doing until Adventism…read the above…a potted history of the Christian Church and all its branches and isms and more than 200 Protestant churches of our day…You Catholics hold all the cards humanly speaking, a united Church around the world, all singing from the one hymn sheet, crumbs you have it made People…!!!

Anyway Adventists kept Sunday in the beginning, well the Pastor visited a Seventh-day Baptist lady after he had preached a sermon on the Ten Commandments and how we should keep them, not to be saved, but because we are saved and want to obey Lord Jesus…so Rachel Oats was her name, she said ‘you claim to keep all ten why are you breaking the fourth??’ (third for you Catholics, Rome changed the order, maybe more than the order)

This made him think and it led to great study of Bible by Adventists to see what the Truth was in the Bible? So we became the Seventh-day Adventists!!

Seventh-day Adventist are the latest in the line of Reformers, carrying on the Reformation started by the great Reformers.

OK young man, um one liners look o so good in Forums but they take a heck of a lot of answering, I have to go and lie down now, you have EXHAUSTED me brother…Michael.
 
“And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.” ( Mt 24:11).

Am I wrong in thinking this may apply to Ellen G White or the Millerites or whatever???
 
Well fishisgood, a stone in the water causes ripples which some people say go forever…

Boy you are so good at the one or two line question…this one is not so hard to answer though, in fact Ihave already answered it, did you take time to read my ‘epistles’? Or did you just skim over them not really taking it in?? I could do one liners to about the Roman Catholic Church, but I expect you would not bother answering, ha, not as silly as me exhausting myself on your behalf…??

False prophets? plenty of them about I grant you, but in this case no, just because we are slightly different to the norm, daring to go against the tide against the crowd, and prefer to obey our Saviour Jesus Christ. The godly in Christ will always suffer persecution I believe is in the Bible, how true, how true.

So, I shall not exhaust myself anymore, I believe I have answered all of you questions I just ask you to read them again. Old expression, ‘casting pearls before swine’, not calling you a swine by the way, just using the saying.

So God bless and go to Mass and confess your sin in making me exhaust myself answering you questions…joking of course, Bye for now. Michael.
 
ok so ive done a bit of research and ive concluded that the 5 main differences between Adentists and Catholics are (correct me if im wrong please? & im sorry if i in some way or another insult you guys… im sorry . that is not my intention. let me know… =] ):
  1. that faith and only faith is enough to save you… ( it is not needed for you to do good acts and such)
  2. that it is saturday the day to rest. (and not sunday)
  3. you only believe in the immersion baptism.
4.you celebrate the Eucharist as a ceremony of rememberance of Jesus. ( you celebrate it every 3 months and share a piece of bread and grape juice. beforehand, you wash each others feet)
  1. you believe the second coming of Christ is near?
these are the ones ive crossed the most… altough i do know you guys have many great qualities which include:
  1. abstain from alcohol
  2. insist in “giving back” to our Lord by “taking out your wallet” 😃 . i believe you have many many hospitals as well… (these are all great examples to all of us out there)
    3.many publication houses. and you print your readings in many diferent languages.
then again… other things you dont agree with the Catholic religion is:
  1. the 7 sacraments
    2.the bible has 73 books
    3.against all images
  2. against our “praising” of the virgin mary and the saints. (which we DONT. we do not praise. this is a misunderstanding… )
  3. the presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist
  4. the forgiveness of sins through confession with a priest
    7.that the Holy Bible must be interpreted through doctrine and explanation by Pontifs and saints of the church. (they are guided by the holy spirit to avoid mistakes and errors on our part.
  5. faith is not enough: it is necessary to do good deeds. and live the christian life
  6. the authority of the Pope the Bishop and Deacon
  7. the holy mass?
just want to see if anyone out there has anything to say about this… any comments? corrections? i sure would love to hear from you guys and what your reasons are and your beliefs? id like to discuss::… Adventists, Catholics… anyone. =]
 
Brother2 said:
Well fishisgood, a stone in the water causes ripples which some people say go forever…

Boy you are so good at the one or two line question…this one is not so hard to answer though, in fact Ihave already answered it, did you take time to read my ‘epistles’? Or did you just skim over them not really taking it in?? I could do one liners to about the Roman Catholic Church, but I expect you would not bother answering, ha, not as silly as me exhausting myself on your behalf…??

False prophets? plenty of them about I grant you, but in this case no, just because we are slightly different to the norm, daring to go against the tide against the crowd, and prefer to obey our Saviour Jesus Christ. The godly in Christ will always suffer persecution I believe is in the Bible, how true, how true.

So, I shall not exhaust myself anymore, I believe I have answered all of you questions I just ask you to read them again. Old expression, ‘casting pearls before swine’, not calling you a swine by the way, just using the saying.

So God bless and go to Mass and confess your sin in making me exhaust myself answering you questions…joking of course, Bye for now. Michael.
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I believe fishisgood may have been referring to Ellen White, who was a false prophet.
Regardless of whether you believe the claims of the Catholic Church why would you stay in a church that holds in such high esteem a proven false prophet? How can you possibly put your trust in what that (fairly new) church teaches?
 
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