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johnshark
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how about answering my post brother2?
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Brother2
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Hello johnshark. Yes 10 Commandments (even if the Pope changed the order) sorry!!
When we are saved by the Grace of God He changes our life to obey those 10!!
Abortion…up to a point I/we actually agree with you…although with Rape, Incest or handicap, it maybe becomes more personal, Personal Choice rather than Church dogma??
Or as you say should be performed only for the most serious reasons and not done thoughtlessly, I totally agree!!!
May God guide us and keep us and help us to be happy. Michael.
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Brother2
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Ha Ho brother johnshark, Great minds thinks alike huh…just did!! Michael.
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johnshark
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actually i didnt say that, the official website of the sda church does check the link i provided… with the answer you provided you yourself break the “thou shall not kill” commandment. i would be curious to know what kind of “handicap” your unborn child would have to have to make it eligible for this personal choice. and how are the ten commandments church dogma if they were given to the jews by god. and if the not kill commandment can be changed/disregarded then cant the sabbath day commandment be changed/disregarded?
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Des
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Yet your Bible alone theory does nothing but create divisions.
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Brother2
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Hello brother johnshark. ( I did not even mention your link from Official Adventist or not…)actually i didnt say that, the official website of the sda church does check the link i provided… with the answer you provided you yourself break the “thou shall not kill” commandment. i would be curious to know what kind of “handicap” your unborn child would have to have to make it eligible for this personal choice. and how are the ten commandments church dogma if they were given to the jews by god. and if the not kill commandment can be changed/disregarded then cant the sabbath day commandment be changed/disregarded?
Thou shalt not kill…or is it Murder, how do Christians fight and kill in a war situation?? Is there ‘a time to kill’??
Most Adventists go as Medics or non coms, doing an essential job without carrying a gun. That does not mean we condemn other Christians for ‘killing’ but not Murdering…it is according to your conscience guided by Scripture, indwelling Holy Spirit and the stance of your ~Church.
As regards Abortion once again I probably agree with you, whether to have a handicapped baby or not I believe comes down to Conscience again, I probably would not have an abortion in that case…of course one can ask, 'where does life actually begin? in the womb or at birth? Until our modern age it was often at birth, but with all the advances in Medicine we know much more about conception and growth in the womb.
So I am not really disagreeing with you johnshark, I just think that sometimes it comes down to Conscience…and not dogma…praise God I have never had to decide…!!
Christian greetings to all. Michael.
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Brother2
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Yes Yes Yes!!! I’m not a Trial Member anymore, I’m a New Member!!! I have passed the 50 mark!!!..hee hee horay horay horay…
Anyone going to Welcome me into the Club???
Hi everybody, Brothers in the Lord Jesus Christ…and Sisters?? Michael.
Anyone going to Welcome me into the Club???
Hi everybody, Brothers in the Lord Jesus Christ…and Sisters?? Michael.
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Brother2
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As regards the Church being a Hospital for sinners, I totally agree with you, I have often called the Church a Hospital for sinners!!!
Divisions from being Bible alone? So you have as interpreted by the Church Fathers? Not making fun of that by the way…most if not all Churches have ‘church fathers’ or theologians who lead out in the interpreting the Bible…I would say that mostly there is only one true interpretation…and we agree on many interpretations of Scripture…but while human beings are in this old world I suppose there will always be disagreements and divisions…as there are in nearly every walk or life.
Well, to quote an old comedian, OH you are awful but I like you!!!
PS. Its my bedtime lads and lassies, must get my beauty sleep, its 22:55 here. Good night and God bless all of you. Michael.
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Des
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Yes but to sin is to go against the will of God. Misinterpreting Scripture is not always that case.
There are no divisions created by sticking to the teachings of the Church.
I will have to disagree with you here brother2 because it will set a Christian up to fail. It’s like saying Jesus wanted His Apostles to ‘spread the Good News’ that for future believers, could never be held onto in a complete sense whereby you are certain that what you interpret is indeed God’s word. If you claim 100 percent certainty of your beliefs, then you claim infallibility. Where what you read is indeed ‘Truth’ and no other Christian can believe differently. There are many ‘important’ Doctrines that Christians quibble about. Some say they are important, others say they aren’t. Who’s right? Stating one must pray before reading the Bible is like telling others who disagree with your interpretation, either aren’t praying, or refusing to open their hearts to see as you do.
God never wanted this however if He set it up receiving His Word the way you insist, seems like He wasn’t thinking clearly. Of course He didn’t do this but Gave us a Church to preserve both His Written and Oral Word and to settle moral matters for future generations to come. The Church is the Ground and Pillar of Truth and to separate from this, will only lead you into error.
Mm-hmm. I’m a baaaaad man. Stay far away from me lest you get bit.Well, to quote an old comedian, OH you are awful but I like you!!!
Goodnight and congrats on surpassing the 50 post mark.
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johnshark
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i hear what you are saying when you say is comes down to conscience BUT…one of the dogmas of all christian churches is the 10 commandments is it not? if i can go by conscience and not the ten commandments then i also can covet,cheat on my wife,steal and so on. so again why is the sabbath commandment inviolate and the murder/kill commandment just a “follow it if your conscience dictates” commandment.Hello brother johnshark. ( I did not even mention your link from Official Adventist or not…)
Thou shalt not kill…or is it Murder, how do Christians fight and kill in a war situation?? Is there ‘a time to kill’??
Most Adventists go as Medics or non coms, doing an essential job without carrying a gun. That does not mean we condemn other Christians for ‘killing’ but not Murdering…it is according to your conscience guided by Scripture, indwelling Holy Spirit and the stance of your ~Church.
As regards Abortion once again I probably agree with you, whether to have a handicapped baby or not I believe comes down to Conscience again, I probably would not have an abortion in that case…of course one can ask, 'where does life actually begin? in the womb or at birth? Until our modern age it was often at birth, but with all the advances in Medicine we know much more about conception and growth in the womb.
So I am not really disagreeing with you johnshark, I just think that sometimes it comes down to Conscience…and not dogma…praise God I have never had to decide…!!
Christian greetings to all. Michael.
And also the Catholic Church has said since the beginning when it was created by Christ that abortion is wrong and that life begins at conception.
p.s. if you dont believe me about the link i posted do a whois check and it will tell you that its the official SDA church site.
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Delraek
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Hi Michael,
I work with a guy who’s a 7th Day Adventist and he accused the Catholic church of removing one of the commandments. So, I researched the history and found out that the Catholic and Lutheran churches both adopted the division that St. Augustine came up with. Here’s a link that explains everything: cin.org/users/james/files/numberng.htm
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Brother2
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Hello all your guys. I hear you defending the Roman Catholic Church and that is only to be expected, and I have checked out you Commandments page.
Looks like a lot of ‘wriggling’ to me to get off the hook. The Content and Order of the 10 Commandments is set out in Exodus 20, where especially the 4th, spells out Who God is, He is the Creator, it spells out which day of the week is the Sabbath which the Creator has made Holy and set apart for Man to rest. Not up to Man to change any of them.
Plenty of graven images and plenty of ‘likenesses’ in every Roman Catholic Church I go into and do regularly, and they get bowed down to quite often, as well as the Altar or the Presence in the box or whatever you call it. I know that you claim not to worship them but boy it comes mighty close…
Speaking of the big Cathedrals and Abbeys, I also see many Masonic signs and symbols in them too, green men and masonic hand signals in the stained glass windows.
Even rumours of pagan sacrifices going on late at night in some churches. even the tiles on the floors oftern have mystic meanings. All too much for me, I prefer a plain place of worship without all the images, likenesses, and masonic signs looking at me. Time to be quiet with my God. Although I spend quiet times in Cathedrals too, but get distracted by all those man made ‘invasions’ of God’s Space.
So here we are again. Time to ‘agree to disagree’ maybe.
Greetings to all and may God bless all here. Michael.
Looks like a lot of ‘wriggling’ to me to get off the hook. The Content and Order of the 10 Commandments is set out in Exodus 20, where especially the 4th, spells out Who God is, He is the Creator, it spells out which day of the week is the Sabbath which the Creator has made Holy and set apart for Man to rest. Not up to Man to change any of them.
Plenty of graven images and plenty of ‘likenesses’ in every Roman Catholic Church I go into and do regularly, and they get bowed down to quite often, as well as the Altar or the Presence in the box or whatever you call it. I know that you claim not to worship them but boy it comes mighty close…
Speaking of the big Cathedrals and Abbeys, I also see many Masonic signs and symbols in them too, green men and masonic hand signals in the stained glass windows.
Even rumours of pagan sacrifices going on late at night in some churches. even the tiles on the floors oftern have mystic meanings. All too much for me, I prefer a plain place of worship without all the images, likenesses, and masonic signs looking at me. Time to be quiet with my God. Although I spend quiet times in Cathedrals too, but get distracted by all those man made ‘invasions’ of God’s Space.
So here we are again. Time to ‘agree to disagree’ maybe.
Greetings to all and may God bless all here. Michael.
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johnshark
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aaahhhh and now the TRUE seventh day adventist view of the Catholic Church comes out…this is the stuff that Doug Batchelor, Steve Wohlberg, and David Asscherick talk about. Wohlberg is my favorite because he looks like he’d pull a gun on you if you didnt agree with him.Hello all your guys. I hear you defending the Roman Catholic Church and that is only to be expected, and I have checked out you Commandments page.
Looks like a lot of ‘wriggling’ to me to get off the hook. The Content and Order of the 10 Commandments is set out in Exodus 20, where especially the 4th, spells out Who God is, He is the Creator, it spells out which day of the week is the Sabbath which the Creator has made Holy and set apart for Man to rest. Not up to Man to change any of them.
Plenty of graven images and plenty of ‘likenesses’ in every Roman Catholic Church I go into and do regularly, and they get bowed down to quite often, as well as the Altar or the Presence in the box or whatever you call it. I know that you claim not to worship them but boy it comes mighty close…
Speaking of the big Cathedrals and Abbeys, I also see many Masonic signs and symbols in them too, green men and masonic hand signals in the stained glass windows.
Even rumours of pagan sacrifices going on late at night in some churches. even the tiles on the floors oftern have mystic meanings. All too much for me, I prefer a plain place of worship without all the images, likenesses, and masonic signs looking at me. Time to be quiet with my God. Although I spend quiet times in Cathedrals too, but get distracted by all those man made ‘invasions’ of God’s Space.
So here we are again. Time to ‘agree to disagree’ maybe.
Greetings to all and may God bless all here. Michael.
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Patrick_Murebil
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Hi Michael,Hello all your guys. I hear you defending the Roman Catholic Church and that is only to be expected, and I have checked out you Commandments page.
Looks like a lot of ‘wriggling’ to me to get off the hook. The Content and Order of the 10 Commandments is set out in Exodus 20, where especially the 4th, spells out Who God is, He is the Creator, it spells out which day of the week is the Sabbath which the Creator has made Holy and set apart for Man to rest. Not up to Man to change any of them.
Plenty of graven images and plenty of ‘likenesses’ in every Roman Catholic Church I go into and do regularly, and they get bowed down to quite often, as well as the Altar or the Presence in the box or whatever you call it. I know that you claim not to worship them but boy it comes mighty close…
Speaking of the big Cathedrals and Abbeys, I also see many Masonic signs and symbols in them too, green men and masonic hand signals in the stained glass windows.
Even rumours of pagan sacrifices going on late at night in some churches. even the tiles on the floors oftern have mystic meanings. All too much for me, I prefer a plain place of worship without all the images, likenesses, and masonic signs looking at me. Time to be quiet with my God. Although I spend quiet times in Cathedrals too, but get distracted by all those man made ‘invasions’ of God’s Space.
So here we are again. Time to ‘agree to disagree’ maybe.
Greetings to all and may God bless all here. Michael.
Here is a link to the official teaching of The Catholic Church regarding the ten commandments. This is from The Catechism of The Catholic Church, Second Edition.
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2.htm
In it you will find all the commandments as found in the scriptures and the official teaching of The Church regarding them.
Perhaps this is the best place for you to begin, so you can be informed. You make quite a few wild and outlandish statements above which may get some folks happy and excited…but really come off sounding…well, just misinformed.
The ture information is there for you if you ever want to look at it and read it, but it is Truth, and may not be as thrilling and fun as your Masonic codes and pagan sacrifices. Sorry…you have to wait for the next Ron Howard movie soon to come out for that “cool stuff”…I know how the Catholic haters feed on that fiction…and you can probably even find a place on this forum where those things are discussed.
God bless all!!!
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Des
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Ahh, typical protestant rhetoric.
God commanded them not to bow down to Graven images in ‘worship’ since only a couple pages, over He commanded Moses to build an Ark…with Graven Images.
You’re misinterpreting that verse Brother2. And there is no ‘pretty close’ to worshiping a Graven image unless you can read the hearts of those venerating these images which I can assure you, you can’t.
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johnshark
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saying Catholics worship images is like saying i worship the family pictures i have on the walls of my house
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Yoder
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Isn’t 666 Man’s number not Lucifer’s?
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Des
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I’m not sure I follow.
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Delraek
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Now this is what really bugs me about my 7th Day Adventist co-worker! He’d rather believe the misinformation he gets from his church than the truth! The 10 commandments are also listed in Deuteronomy (assuming you didn’t know that!) and they are worded a little differently. And God never numbered them (or at least Moses didn’t when he wrote them down), so it’s really how you choose to divide them.Hello all your guys. I hear you defending the Roman Catholic Church and that is only to be expected, and I have checked out you Commandments page.
Looks like a lot of ‘wriggling’ to me to get off the hook. The Content and Order of the 10 Commandments is set out in Exodus 20, where especially the 4th, spells out Who God is, He is the Creator, it spells out which day of the week is the Sabbath which the Creator has made Holy and set apart for Man to rest. Not up to Man to change any of them.
Plenty of graven images and plenty of ‘likenesses’ in every Roman Catholic Church I go into and do regularly, and they get bowed down to quite often, as well as the Altar or the Presence in the box or whatever you call it. I know that you claim not to worship them but boy it comes mighty close…
Speaking of the big Cathedrals and Abbeys, I also see many Masonic signs and symbols in them too, green men and masonic hand signals in the stained glass windows.
Even rumours of pagan sacrifices going on late at night in some churches. even the tiles on the floors oftern have mystic meanings. All too much for me, I prefer a plain place of worship without all the images, likenesses, and masonic signs looking at me. Time to be quiet with my God. Although I spend quiet times in Cathedrals too, but get distracted by all those man made ‘invasions’ of God’s Space.
So here we are again. Time to ‘agree to disagree’ maybe.
Greetings to all and may God bless all here. Michael.
So, in your numbering of the commandments, how do you violate #2 without violating #1? It’s not possible, so they really don’t need to be separated.
As far as your “graven image” comment, we (and most protestants) believe the soul is immortal, and have no problem asking the souls in heaven to pray for us. When we “pray” to the saints, it’s asking for intercession like if we were to ask you to pray for us. Showing some kind of reverence to a saint’s image is like someone kissing a photograph of a loved one who isn’t around for some reason. That person isn’t worshipping the photograph! And I don’t know anyone who believes that a statue or any image of a saint is actually a deity. I suppose if you’ve been told over and over again that Catholics worship images, it’s kind of a brainwashing that’s hard to shake?
Now as far as the tabernacle, yes we do worship the consecrated hosts inside because we believe they are Jesus (body, blood, soul and divinity). At the Last Supper Jesus said “This is my Body” “This is my Blood” - not a symbol. And John 6 also supports this belief. When Jesus said His body is true flesh and His blood is true drink, many people left because they didn’t understand. And he didn’t call them back to clarify either!
I don’t know where you got this ridiculous Mason garbage - Catholics aren’t even allowed to be Masons! And the only sacrifices that go on in Catholic churches are during the Masses when the bread and wine become Jesus’ body and blood.
I really don’t understand why someone would rather believe lies and misconceptions even when they’re told the truth. I don’t go around telling lies and/or misconceptions about 7th Day Adventists and if someone told me something that I found odd, I would check into it because facts are important to me. Jesus came to testify to the truth!
Maybe if you got rid of your prejudice againt the Catholic church, you would be able to actually “hear” the truth? Just a thought…
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