Question for Ahmadi Muslims

[hcac]

Do you believe your founder to be a prophet, if so, didn’t Mohammed say he was the last and final prophet?

 

[paarsurrey]

Do you believe your founder to be a prophet, if so, didn’t Mohammed say he was the last and final prophet?

Hi
Thanks for your question.
Muhammad has been given the title of “Kahtamun-Nabiyyeen” by GodAllahYHWH which if transliterated would mean “Seal of Prophets” which could have several interpretations; one is the Prophet with the last canon-book containing the pristine Word of God, the most protected, secure, universal and for all times to come.
PromisedMessiahImamMahdi did not come with a new canon, he follows the same Quran and Sunnah, he is a follower of Muhammad and his true successor in this remote era , about whom Muhammad himself prophesized in very clear terms. Muhammad must be knowing about the true meaning of the title “Kahtamun-Nabiyyeen” while he prophesized.
This is in short.
Thanks

 

[hcac]

Thank you for you answer.

 

[paarsurrey]

Thank you for you answer.

Hi
Your are always welcome.
Thanks

 

[Sura10_Ayat94]

What is peace in Islam?

Daniel Ali a convert to Christianity from Islam in ‘Inside Islam’ a guide for Catholics (2003) pg. 122, says that *“When the Muslim declares that Islam is a religion of peace, he is either ignorant of the Koran (& Hadith ) or is extending this “peace” only to those within the Muslim community, without telling you that is the way he means it” *(“…be merciful to one another, but ruthless to unbelievers Sura 48:29) In Islam, there exists no true concept of peace between the nonbeliever and the devout Muslim. Peace can only exist for those who follow Islam.”
Daniel asserts that Christians are called to love all people, especially their enemies (Mt 5:44) No other religion makes “the loving of one’s enemies” so essential. Daniel continues to say on pg. 127 “Any religion that, in its scriptures, defines peace as doing violence to its enemies is offering a false peace based on conformity. Christian peace is based on love, which is inclusive, not exclusive, and therefore extends to all genuine peace”. Daniel illustrates the two forms of forgiveness by the two founders of both religions. He refers to Christian forgiveness (which results in peace) in John 7:53-8:11. Jesus Christ tells the Pharisees who were to stone to death a women caught committing adultery, “Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her” then Jesus forgave her with compassionate and peace. On the other hand we see the sharp contrast in Mohammad’s actions as illustrated in the Hadith (Islamic tradition) when (Mohammad) pronounced punishment to the same offence. *“And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid b Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and so he abused her….” *(Hadith Muslim, vol. 3, bk 17, no. 4206)

These examples sum up two radically different understanding of repentance. Jesus accepts the women’s repentance and she is not punished; Mohammad (600 years later) orders the stoning of a woman in the same predicament. Daniel concludes that “the core difference between the messages that Christian and Muslim evangelists are spreading around the world today: on is a message of genuine mercy and love, the other is at its core one of fear and punishment”.

The Christian principle to “love your enemies” is utterly unknown to Muslim belief and this is evident in their Hadith where they are required to persecute the Christians & Jews:

“when judgment day arrives, Allah will give every Muslim, a Jew or Christian to kill so that the Muslim will not enter into hell fire.” (Mishkat Al-Messabih, vol. 2, no.5552)

Even the Qur’an alludes to animosity:
*“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors…”*Sura 5:51

Sura 5:51 and many others verses have given rise to cultural divisions and this attitude is even applied today with the infamous and influential Muslim, Ayatollah Khomeini’s contempt for non-Muslims:
“There are eleven things which are impure: urine, excrement, sperm, bones, blood, dogs, pigs, non-Muslim men and women, wine, beer, and the sweat of the excrement-eating camel.
Every part of the body of a non-Muslim individual is impure, even the hair on his hand and his body hair, his nails, and all the secretions of the body.

Ali Dashti writes on page 97 “'23 Years”: “Thus Islam was gradually transformed from a purely spiritual mission into a militant and punitive organization whose progress depended on booty from raids and revenue from the zakat tax.”
faithfreedom.org/Articles/SKM/inhuman_islamic.htm

So what peace did Khomeini or Mohammad bring? Check Sura 4:89, 5:51, 5:34, 35, 9:5: and 9:29.

I will conclude with these quotes:
*I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them * Sura 8:12

Vol8, Bk82, Num795; Narrated Anas: The Prophet cut off the hands and feet of the men belonging to the tribe of Uraina and did not cauterise (their bleeding limbs) till they died.

“I have been ordered by Allah TO FIGHT WITH PEOPLE till they testify there is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his messenger.” Abbas in Sahih al-Bukhari (Part 1, 13.)

Fight who and why? Isn’t Islam a religion of the peace or Din 'e sif (religion of the sword)

Ask the Christians in Sudan, Palestine, Nigeria, Egypt, Indonesia, Lebanon…, which have never resorted to the hundreds of suicide bombers committed now by Muslims globally. Well, what about the Pakistan Penal Code sec. 295B. What about Sharia law? Or public stonings, beheadings, assassinations, honour killings, slavery, suicide bombing…

 

[Kadaveri]

Muhammad (saaw) said in his last sermon: ‘O People, no Prophet or Messenger will come after me and no new religion will be born’. And ‘Seal of the Prophets’ means he was the last, as when you put a seal on something that means it’s finished (i.e. Prophethood).

Ahamdis are roughly equivalent to Mormons in Christianity.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi everybody!
Our friend hcac asked me a question; since I knew the answer from my humble knowledge so I answered it, I hope satisfactorily.
Any other Catholic may ask me a question here in this thread about Ahmadia/Ahmadis. I would be pleased to respond if I knew the answer though I am not a scholar.
Thanks

The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of peaceful and human loving Muhammad and his religion Islam and Islam of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking moral and peaceful.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Perhaps you could explain some of the distinctions between Ahmadi and Sunni or Shi’a.

 

[paarsurrey]

Perhaps you could explain some of the distinctions between Ahmadi and Sunni or Shi’a.

Hi
Thank you for your question. My approach is that if I want to know about a religion or denomination I would ask them directly or read their books directly and form my own opinion. I would therefore request you to ask about adherents of Sunnis or Shi’as directly.
However with reference to Ahmadis I would mention some important points.
There is no difference in the Arabic Quranic text of Ahmadis, Sunnis and the Shi’as, the interpretations or traslations of verses could be different on merit.
Ahmadis are more closer in Sunnah to Sunnis than the Shi’a.
Sunnis have their Hadith and the Shias have their own Hadith. We follow those Hadith whether in the Sunni books or Shia books which are not against Quran or interpret it in such a way that the difference is removed.
Bothe Sunnis and Shias believe that Promised Messiah or Issa would come from the skies literally and also ImamMahdi would be born the same time, to them both are different personalities. According to Hadith, there are some traditions ( of Sunnis) that it is one personality with different titles.They both are waiting for these personalities but none has come, and the time limit has already passed. They both believe that when these personalities would come they would fight with the infidels/kafirs.
We Ahmadis according to Hadith which are in their books believe that violenc or war for conversion of religion would be stopped by PromisedMessiahImamMahdi and instead peaceful dialogue with other religions would be started.
For detail please read the thread:Eradication of Violence in Muslims – A Peaceful Approach:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=164779
I think it would satisfy you quere. If you have more question you are welcome to ask , if I knew the answer I would be pleased to reply, I am no scholar.
Thanks

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Thank-you. That was a good start.

I appreciate the advice regarding speaking directly to Sunnis and Shi’as. As a matter of fact I correspond with several regularly. But of course, they can only speak of the distinctions from their somewhat biased perspectives. So, in asking you what you saw as some of the differerences, I was continuing to pursue my policy of asking for first hand, rather than second hand information.

Perhaps you can share the Ahmadi beliefs regarding what happened to Jesus when the Romans thought they were crucifying him. How was he saved from this? Who took his place? To what degree were Jesus’ disciples aware that Jesus did not die on the cross?

How are the Christian claims of resurrection answered by Ahmadis?

Sunnis believe that Jesus was taken bodily to heaven without ever dying then or later and there awaits to return at the final judgment. What do Ahamdi believe with regard to these things?

Sunni and Shi’a believe that Muhammad was the last and final prophet, bringing God’s final message to all of mankind, and that there are no others to come with any new word after him. Can you explain why it is that Ahmadi follow another after Muhammad?

 

[Phil12123]

There is no difference in the Arabic Quranic text of Ahmadis, Sunnis and the Shi’as, the interpretations or traslations of verses could be different on merit.

Ahmadis are more closer in Sunnah to Sunnis than the Shi’a.
Sunnis have their Hadith and the Shias have their own Hadith. We follow those Hadith whether in the Sunni books or Shia books which are not against Quran or interpret it in such a way that the difference is removed.

Both Sunnis and Shias believe that Promised Messiah or Issa would come from the skies literally and also ImamMahdi would be born the same time, to them both are different personalities. According to Hadith, there are some traditions ( of Sunnis) that it is one personality with different titles.They both are waiting for these personalities but none has come, and the time limit has already passed. They both believe that when these personalities would come they would fight with the infidels/kafirs.

We Ahmadis according to Hadith which are in their books believe that violence or war for conversion of religion would be stopped by PromisedMessiahImamMahdi and instead peaceful dialogue with other religions would be started.

For detail please read the thread:Eradication of Violence in Muslims – A Peaceful Approach:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=164779
I think it would satisfy you quere. If you have more question you are welcome to ask, if I know the answer I would be pleased to reply, I am no scholar.
Thanks

**I’m wondering why anyone has to wait for someone to come before they stop using violence or war for conversion of religion. Sounds like you’re saying you believe peaceful dialogue with other religions does not start until that person comes. In fact, isn’t what we are doing on this forum “peaceful dialogue”? It is also a tacit admission that Islam is using violence or war to spread Islam now, before that coming.

I would also like to hear your response to the long post quoting Daniel Ali, etc. about Islam and its version of “peace.”
**

 

[Harpazo]

Ahamdis are roughly equivalent to Mormons in Christianity.

That was my view of it too. Very strange beliefs with little, if any historical basis.

In Pax Christi
Andrew

 

[paarsurrey]

I’m wondering why anyone has to wait for someone to come before they stop using violence or war for conversion of religion. Sounds like you’re saying you believe peaceful dialogue with other religions does not start until that person comes. In fact, isn’t what we are doing on this forum “peaceful dialogue”? It is also a tacit admission that Islam is using violence or war to spread Islam now, before that coming.
I would also like to hear your response to the long post quoting Daniel Ali, etc. about Islam and its version of "peace."

Hi
I don’t remember that long post, kindly provide its link, I would try to answer it if I knew one. I am a humble ordinary sinful person, I am no scholar, please remember.
Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

**
**

Hi
Due to certain wrong notions being spread in the traditional Muslims; Muhammad prophesised that when PromisedMessiahImamMahdi would come he would abolish religious war for conversion of religion and that would be sign of his coming. Islam is a peaceful religion but Mullah made it violent against the teachings of Muhammad/Quran/Islam. So PromisedMessiahImamMahdi rectified this mistake. Is it wrong or it does not suit you?
Moses, Jesus, Krishna, Muhammad and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi, all are peaceful and peace loving persons.
Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

(Sorry for a little editing)
Perhaps you can share the Ahmadi beliefs regarding:

1. What happened to Jesus when the Romans thought they were crucifying him?
2. How was he saved from this?
3. Who took his place?
4. To what degree were Jesus’ disciples aware that Jesus did not die on the cross?
5. How are the Christian claims of resurrection answered by Ahmadis?
6. Sunnis believe that Jesus was taken bodily to heaven without ever dying then or later and there awaits to return at the final judgment.
   What do Ahmadi believe with regard to these things?
7. Sunnis and Shias believe that Muhammad was the last and final prophet, bringing God’s final message to all of mankind, and that there are no others to come with any new word after him…
8. Can you explain why it is that Ahmadi follow another after Muhammad?

Hi
So in all there are eight questions. The questions are always short but the replies cannot be that short. There are some questions among them on which separate books have been written to satisfy the questioners. And there is no harm in reading some short books by hand of the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi himself, more so because you like first hand information instead of me that would be second hand.
For the first five questions (1-5) please read the book “Jesus in India” only Chapter-1 consisting of 36 pages only.
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
For question # 6, please read Chapter-2 consisting on 6 pages only of the same book.
For question # 7 & 8, please read a very small book consisting of only 16 pages “The Removal of a Misunderstanding”: alislam.org/books/misunderstandingremoved.html
A person with Christian background should concentrate on the first five questions to start with.
I have also answered all these questions in my posts in this sub-forum, for convenience please read my posts in the following threads.
Jesus died in India (1 2 3 4 5 … Last Page)
Why did Jesus die on the cross? ( 1 2 3 4 5)
Jesus did not die on Cross (1 2 3) Did Christ rise on Sunday? (1 2 3 4)
When Jesus/God died. (1 2 3 4)
I think that would answer all your questions.
Thanks

 

[Grace_Seeker]

PaarSurrey, I am having trouble with some contradictions in some of what you have told me. At least to me they appear to be contradictions. I’m assuming that you must not see these things as contradictory, so perhaps you can explain to me.

1. I understand that you hold the Qur’an to be the true revealed word of God to Prophet Muhammad.
2. I have read the following in the Qur’an:

"That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): ‘We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.’ But they killed him not, Nor crucified him [emphasis mine], but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow.
The Noble Qur’an, 4:156-159

1. You have also, in these forums, said,

I never mentioned that some other person was put on the Cross, it was Jesus who was put on the cross.

and

I might have written not less that a hundred times that Jesus was delivered from cross in near-dead position like Jonah was neardead in the belly of the fish,

(These two quotes being taken from posts # 228 & #242 in the “Pope Declares-Non Catholics Do Not Possess the Full Truth” thread.)

Now, maybe you are not aware that the phrase “to be crucified” refers to being hung on a cross. True most crucifixions resulted in death, but a person hung on the cross and then taken down alive would also be said to have been crucified.

So, we have the Qur’an, a book you believe to be true in every detail saying that Jesus was not crucified (i.e. not hung upon a cross at all) and you saying that Jesus was hung on the cross and taken down alive. Do you see the conflict in holding both points of view to be true at the same time?

Do you think that maybe Muhammad got it wrong?

 

[paarsurrey]

At least to me they appear to be contradictions ( in Quran or paarsurrey’s perception of the Quranic verses )

Hi
There is no contradiction in Quran, and I have also understood it correctly. In fact I had already explained this verse in one of my posts, perhaps you have missed that but there is no harm to repeat it. It is my habit, that where the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi has explained a verse and it is mentioned in one of his books (about a hundred or so, written in Urdu, Arabic and Persian) translated in English, then I quote from him, this is to make it convenient for my Catholic friends to convert me to their cherished faith, if they refute his argument and the argument exceeds that of him, since I being steadfast on my faith I keep a window or door open to welcome the truth from anywhere it comes to me. The Catholics are in contest with him directly in this way.
Now coming to the point, first I quote correct meaning of the verses and the verses in context ,The Holy Quran : Chapter 4: Al-Nisa’:

[4:156] So, for their breaking the covenant*, and their denial of the Signs of Allah**, and their seeking to slay the Prophets unjustly, and their saying: ‘Our hearts are wrapped up in covers,’ - nay, but Allah has sealed them because of their disbelief, so they believe not but little -
[4:157] And for their disbelief and for their uttering against Mary a grievous calumny;
[4:158] And for their saying, ‘We did slay the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;’ whereas they slew him not, nor did they bring about his death upon the cross, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no certain knowledge thereof, but only pursue a conjecture; and they did not arrive at a certainty concerning it.
[4:159] On the contrary, Allah exalted him*** to Himself. And Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Unquote

• by the Jews
  ** the ProphetsMessengers are also signs of GodAllahYHWH
  *** the Jews could not prove Jesus an accursed person as per their scriptures by killing him on Cross and in this way proving Jesus a false ProphetMessenger, but Allah saved him from such disrespectful getting killed on cross, but by dying later a peaceful, respectful and natural death among the lost tribes of Israel.
  Thanks
  Continued in the next post

 

[paarsurrey]

At least to me they appear to be contradictions ( in Quran or paarsurrey perception of the verses )

Now, as explained by me in my previous post, I quote from the PromisedMessiah:
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch2.html
“The arguments which I am now going to set out, might seem to be useless so far as they are meant for Christians, for these people are not bound by what the Holy Quran or the Hadith say on this question; but I state them because I wish Christians to know of a miracle of our Holy Quran and Holy Prophet; to tell them that the truth which has been discovered after hundreds of years has already been proclaimed by our Holy Prophet and Holy Quran. Accordingly, I set down some of it below.
Almighty God says in the Holy Quran: The Jews neither murdered Jesus, not did they kill him on the Cross; no, they only suspected that Jesus had died on the Cross; they did not have proof which could have convinced and satisfied them that Jesus (on whom be peace) had really died on the Cross.
In these verses Almighty God states that although it is true that Jesus was apparently placed on the Cross, and that they were determined to kill him; yet, it is wrong for Jews and Christians to suppose that Jesus did really die on the Cross. No, God created circumstances which saved Jesus from death on the Cross. Now, if one were just, one must say that what the Holy Quran had said against Jews and Christians turned out ultimately to be true. Investigations of a very high standard to-day have proved that Jesus had really been saved from death on the Cross. A study of the records shows that the Jews have never been able to reply to the question: How was it that Jesus died within two or three hours when his bones were not broken?
This has led the Jews to put in another plea – that they killed Jesus by the sword, whereas the ancient history of the Jews does not show that Jesus was killed by the sword. The majesty and power of the Divine Being made it dark in order that Jesus might be saved. There was an earthquake. Pilate’s wife saw a vision. The Sabbath night was about to fall, when it was improper to let a crucified body remain on the Cross. The magistrate, because of the terrible dream, became disposed towards the release of Jesus. All this was brought about simultaneously by God to save Jesus. Jesus himself was made to go into a swoon that he might be taken for dead. Through terrible signs like the earthquake, etc. there were produced in the Jews cowardice, and fear, and also fear of heavenly punishment. There was also the fear lest the corpses should remain on their crosses during the Sabbath night. Again, the Jews, seeing Jesus in a swoon, thought that he was dead. It was dark. And there was an earthquake and great excitement. They also became anxious about their homes – how must the children be feeling in that darkness and earthquake? There was also a terror in their hearts that if this man was a liar and a Kafir, as they thought he was, why were mighty signs manifested at the moment of his suffering – signs which had not been manifested before. They were so upset that they no longer were in a position to satisfy themselves whether Jesus had really died, or what exactly his condition was. What had come about, however, was a Divine Design to save Jesus. This is hinted at in the verse… i.e., the Jews did not kill Jesus – God made them believe that they had killed him. This circumstance encourages the righteous to place great trust in God, that God can save His servants as He pleases.”
Unquote
Thanks
coninued in the next post

 

[paarsurrey]

At least to me they appear to be contradictions ( in Quran or paarsurrey perception of the verses )

Continued from the previous post:
“And the Holy Quran contains also the verse: His name shall be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the hereafter, and of those who are granted nearness to God. This means that not only here will Jesus have honour and eminence, and enjoy a greatness in the sight of ordinary people; but also in the hereafter. Now, it is evident that Jesus was not honoured in the land of Herod and Pilate. He was, on the contrary, disgraced. The suggestion that he would be honoured during his second coming to this earth is baseless. It is against the divine books and the eternal divine law of nature. There is moreover no proof of it. The truth, however, is that as Jesus, having had his release from those accursed people, came to the land of the Punjab and honoured it with his visit, God gave him great eminence – here he met the ten lost tribes of Israel. It seems that most of these Israelites had adopted Buddhism and some had degenerated into idolatry of a very low kind. But with the coming here of Jesus, most of them returned to the right path; and as there was an exhortation in the teaching of Jesus to believe in the coming Prophet, the ten tribes who came to be known in this land as Afghans and Kashmiris ultimately all became Muslims. So Jesus came with great honour to this land. There has been discovered recently a coin in this very land of the Punjab, on which is inscribed the name of Jesus (on whom be peace) in Pali characters. This coin belongs to the time of Jesus. This shows that Jesus came to this land and received kingly honour; the coin must have been issued by a king who had become a follower of Jesus. Another coin has been found with the figure of an Israelite. It seems that this too is the figure of Jesus. The Holy Quran also has a verse which says that Jesus was blessed by God wherever he went… So these coins show that he received great honour from God, and that he did not die until he had kingly honour.
Likewise the Holy Quran contains the verse: O Jesus! I shall clear thee of these charges; I shall prove thy innocence and shall remove the accusations brought against thee by Jews and Christians.
A great prophecy this, which means that the Jews alleged that Jesus, having been crucified, became (God forbid) accursed, and thus forfeited the love of God, that Jesus’ heart, as the word ‘curse’ necessitates, turned away from God; that is, he came to hate Him. His heart became enveloped by a thick veil of darkness. It came to love evil and to shun good. It broke away from God and came under the sway of Satan. There was enmity between him and God! The same accusation – that he was accursed – was brought by Christians, but Christians, in addition, foolishly combine two contrary and opposite positions; they say Jesus was the Son of God, but they also call him accursed, and what is more, they admit that one who is accursed is the Son of Darkness and the Devil or is the Devil himself. So, these were the dirty charges brought against Jesus; the prophecy contained in the Quran however points out that there was to be a time when God would clear Jesus of these charges. This is that time.
The innocence of Jesus has no doubt become established in the sight of thoughtful persons by the evidence of our Holy Prophet, for he, as well as the Holy Quran, have testified that the charges brought against Jesus (on whom be peace) are all unfounded. But this evidence was a little too subtle and too much in the nature of an argument to carry conviction with ordinary people. Divine justice, therefore, required that just as the crucifixion of Jesus was a visible and well-known event, so should his purity become demonstrated in a manner visible to all and the same has come to pass. The innocence of Jesus is founded not on mere argument but has become demonstrated, in the most palpable way. For hundreds of thousands of people have, with their physical eyes, seen that the tomb of Jesus (on whom be peace) exists in Srinagar, in Kashmir. Just as he was crucified at Golgotha, i.e., at the place of sri, so has his tomb been found at the place of sri i.e., Srinagar. The word sri occurring in the names of both places is very striking indeed. The place where Jesus was crucified was called Gilgit or sri, and the place where in the latter part of the nineteenth century the tomb of Jesus has been discovered is also called Gilgit, or sri. It appears that the place called Gilgit, in Kashmir, suggests the word sri. This town was probably founded in the time of Jesus, and as a local memorial to the event of the Cross it was named Gilgit, i.e., sri; like Lhasa, which means the ‘City of one worthy of worship’; this word is of Hebrew origin, and suggests the city founded in the time of Jesus."

 

[paarsurrey]

At least to me they appear to be contradictions ( in Quran or paarsurrey perception of the verses )

Continued from the previous post:
Hi
I think the explanation as provided by the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 is reasonable, but you are a Catholic, you don’t have to accept this truthful viewpoint unnecessarily, there is no compulsion, unless you are convinced heart and soul out of your own free will.
Thanks

The Word of GodAllahYHWH is and had been the first/authentic and primary source of human knowledge whether revealed on Moses/Jesus/Muhammad or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; it is of itself complete and without doubt and requires no external witnessing.