Question for Catholic converts

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Coeurpieux said:
And you are saying that Catholicism existed before Orthodoxy. That is absurd and illogical .
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Take the word Catholic out of it. They are saying that a universal christian Church existed prior to the schism. That include what would come to be own as the Orthodox church.

That same universal christian church existed after the schism as well. The Orthodox split off from it.
 
Ah. I see your point now.
I thought they were referring to the Roman Catholic Church. It appears i was mistaken
Terminology really is important
 
Coeurpieux said:
Terminology really is important
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Yes it is. I think both sides of this debate need to be mindful of that.

When someone says the Catholic Church existed before the schism they are confusing the issue EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE TECHNICALLY RIGHT.

Catholic means something different today (in terms of usage) than it did before. Before the schism, it was just an adjective that meant universal. After schism, it became a proper noun that referred to the Western side of the church in communion with Rome.
 
That is exactly what my side of the debate has been trying to say
 
And technically the Orthodox Church also existed before the schism in the form of the Eastern Christian rites
 
Coeurpieux said:
And technically the Orthodox Church also existed before the schism in the form of the Eastern Christian rites
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Yes it did!

As I said before, the road to schism was 600+ years in the making. During that time, the East certainly thought they were following an Orthodox path and began openly questioning the Orthodoxy of the West.

And those various national/ethnic/local traditions were seen as valid expressions of the faith.
 
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I am currently Orthodox and but in the process of becoming Catholic. I’m Romanian. Here is how the famous “You are Peter” Bible verse sounds in my language:

“Simon, tu esti Petru iar pe aceasta piatra imi voi construi biserica”

As you can see Petru and piatra are not the same word but the suggestion is obvious as plain daylight to a native. Simply put, “piatra” would not be a name, especially not one for a guy. In Romanian this is because if you articulate the “a” at the end it either means “some stone” or if you don’t it means “that stone/the stone” (but which it is becomes unclear and the noun is feminine. In fact Romanian isn’t even the language where it is easiest to see this. For me the fact that Peter was renamed “rock” and told that the church would be built on him+ the multiple Biblical references to being hid in a rock+ several instances of him being listed first+ being told by Christ to feed His sheep are clear proof enough. I don’t buy the whole “first among equals” idea because quite frankly it just doesn’t make much sense. So is the Pope just supposed to have the fancier dress and fancier adjectives before his name? That is what got me ultimately. Besides (this is a subjective point) the Catholic Church is visibly more structured doctrinally and more well organized. This is not entirely due to the fact that the Pope exists but I think that it is a factor.
 
Yes, the Catholic Church is more organized than Orthodoxy. I learned to my surprise a few years ago that Orthodoxy does not have a Catechism like Catholicism. And Orthodoxy has become too nationalistic. It feels like you cant be Greek Orthodox if youre not Greek, or Russian Orthodox if youre not Russian. But i repeat, that doesnt mean theyre not Christians, merely in error.
 
Yeah. It is a massively cultural thing. I won’t deny that disliking that didn’t push me away from it. You see the thing that made me consider Christianity was all quite… random and I took the fact that I even ended up in a Catholic parish to be in a sort of sign. A lot of people find it (the Orthodox Divine Liturgy) majestic but to that I say; the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. You should hear how come Romanians who have been to Novus Ordo “guitar” masses in Romania talk about them. They love it! It isn’t Protestant enough to estrange them but it feels more “vibrant” to them than what they get in an Orthodox service. Being Orthodox has become in many cases a synonym with being strongly nationalistic. It isn’t always the case and I don’t mean to offend anybody by saying it but it is true. Catholics aren’t perfect either but there is a wider variety within the group.
 
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Coeurpieux said:
But i repeat, that doesnt mean theyre not Christians, merely in error.
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No one alluded to, or even accidentally insinuated that Orthodox are not Christians. Even Protestants are Christian if baptized in the Trinitarian Rite.
 
If you google orthodox catechism, you will find several .pdf available, so I’m not sure this is totally accurate.
 
There are many Orthodox Catechism books lying around but as far as i know there is no official one endorsed by their Church.
 
That’s because their is no single Orthodox Church. I’d have to find specific examples, but there are many cases where Bishop A is in communion with Bishop B and C, but B and C are not in communion with each other. This is why they have so many undefined issues unlike the Catholic church, because their is no head to make final decisions. So when consensus can’t be reached it’s just left hanging.
 
I’m afraid the Orthodox do have that problem.
Also, there are saints venerated in some Orthodox churches that are not venerated in others.
 
Exactly.

Which to me is why I chose to be in communion with Rome. Jesus wouldn’t leave His Church to such chaos and disorder.
 
JanSobieskiIII said:
Exactly.

Which to me is why I chose to be in communion with Rome. Jesus wouldn’t leave His Church to such chaos and disorder.
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I agree with this, and it is one of the reasons I chose Roman Catholicism. I’m leaving Protestantism. I don’t want to trade one set of divisions for another.
 
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The chaos and disorder of the Orthodox Church is a result of the Schism. From what i know, however, the Orthodox believe Christ to be head of the Church , which is one of the reasons they reject the Pope ( someone correct me if im wrong here, as i am not sure) .
The Orthodox Church 's lack of communion with Rome is the only fault i see in it. Other than that, i believe it is a holy, apostolic, perfectly valid church that has valid Eucharist and valid priests and that only needs to reunite with Rome to become complete. However, their lack of communion with Rome does not take away their Christian identity. Some Catholics should remember that we worship Jesus, not the Pope.
 
Simple logistics in the end. If I chose Orthodoxy, I would have been a lone ranger Christian, miles and miles away from access to clergy, sacraments and community. I love the slightly chaotic nature of the Orthodox liturgy, appreciate the very particular way the Orthodox express theology, and have Orthodox friends, but I cannot function as a full Christian on a diet of visiting a church far away, once in a blue moon, and reading Fr Barnabas Powell’s devotionals, excellent though they are.

So I decided that my local, active, accessible and reverent Catholic parish was the place to go. It really was as simple as that.
 
Because I was lead “home” to The Catholic Church. And as a former Methodist/Agnostic, who was not living as I should…It had to be Divine Intervention! Praise GOD!!!
 
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