Question for converts: What's your story?

[moen]

At the risk of sounding like an old ‘stick in the mud’, traditional’ Catholic, in defense of reverence for Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, I believe silence in Church is very important. There are people there praying and it is very difficult to pray when others are talking, laughing etc, around you. We are there to Worship and spend time with Our Lord, not socialize. There are plenty of other times and places to do that. I belong to a big parish that is very friendly, we have many things for those who wish to join, Legion of Mary, St. Vincent De Paul Soc., Men’s Club, Perpetual Adoration, Pro-life activities, several dinners a year, Lent activities, Christmas activities, many, many ways to get together and socialize. So inside the Church is for prayer and Worship. We do not hold hands during The Lord’s Prayer as it is a prayer for God and our attention should not be on each other. It is NOT a part of Mass to hold hands anytime.
As for Catholics not reading the Bible, seems funny to me as we had Bible study books, Bible story books in school all the way thru Catholic schools. I have several copies of those old books. And did you know that if one attends Mass daily for 3 years in a row, you will have every bit of the Bible, Old and New Testaments alike, read to you in a 3 year cycle. . Even if one only went to Mass on Sundays, they still got plenty of scripture read to them. Maybe Catholics were taught not to interrupt the Bible yourself, (and we can all see the danger in that) but unless we deliberatly ignored what we were taught, its hard to imagine one not knowing anything about Scripture. Catholics do not zero in on certain verses and build our belief on that only. There is soo much more to it than that.
If you have ever been in an older Catholic Church, you could learn the faith by looking at the beautiful stained glass windows. In fact that’s why Catholic Churches have such beautiful windows, so those who couldn’t read, could see. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. I have been fortunate to have visited so many very beautiful Catholic Churches and Cathedrals across our country. Many were built by poor, struggling immigrants and are breathtaking.
One can be silent and still be ‘alive with anticipation’. God Bless, Memaw.

Memaw, did you have someone, either parents, grandparents, priests…who nurtured/prayed for you as you grew up? Did you have a godly upbringing or nominal church attending family? Just curious as to when your understanding and love of God was “sparked.” Does your church have lots of fellowship/ministry opportunities?

I rec’d my information from the vast majority of Catholics I’ve met in my life, that they sat and listened in mass, but were never encouraged to be an active participant in their faith, that it’s listening and accepting and reflecting your faith in your life via your actions and your relationships with other people.

These same people told me time and time again, like I did in my church, that they went through the motions, but it didn’t become real to me until another person shared the gospel with them in a way that they understood it. To me, that’s the key…it could be Catholic parents living/sharing with their children as they grow up OR someone praying for another person and God sparks faith in his/her heart.

I think then the pendulum in many Prot. churches has swung way to the other end, where it’s all about your own personal Bible study time, and if you don’t have your quiet time every single day, you’re spiritually “in the dunce corner”-- therefore you see many plastic smiles in those churches, with lots of under-the-rug YUK because “you’re always supposed to be joyful if you’re up to date with your quiet time/Bible Study/Prayer time…”.IE all about effort, little about humility, God’s grace, etc.

I’m torn, however, because the church closest to me is so solemn and dark, where people dart in and out quickly. The church I visited farther away last week was warm and informal, yet a bit chatty before the mass began, and it did jar me a little.

OUr rel’t with God is as Jesus put succinctly: Love the Lord your God with all your heart…and your neighbor as yourself, and where the Bible says our rel’t with God is reflected in how we treat others. Why do so many Catholics in this church look so sour and mean…? How can they truly be worshipping with their whole heart, and then turn around and be so closed to other Christians sitting right next to them? My guess is that they have not accepted the fullness of the gospel yet, even though they’ve grown up in the CC, or else why act that way?

I guess I’m jealous of those of you who have the best of both worlds, the reverence AND the warmth/fellowship & ministry opportunities.
lots of babbling…

 

[usemelord]

Memaw and Moen, thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I understand perfectly the desire of those traditionalists to have complete silence and reverence before Mass. That is not to say, however, that there is a rock concert atmosphere at my church where people are not totally mute. Quite to the contrary, although we are not exactly hushed before hand, we have utter and total awe for the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. As far as holding hands during The Lord’s Prayer, I feel there is almost an unbroken chain between me and the person on the other side of the church as we are altogether in complete unison with one another. And, to the contrary, I certainly honor and respect those such as my own son and daughter-in-law who do not share the same feeling. Personally, I think I have “the best of both worlds.” I just think maybe I would not have completed my RCIA journey if I had my instruction in a staid, demure setting.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Memaw,

You wrote: *At the risk of sounding like an old ‘stick in the mud’, traditional’ Catholic, in defense of reverence for Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, I believe silence in Church is very important. There are people there praying and it is very difficult to pray when others are talking, laughing etc, around you. We are there to Worship and spend time with Our Lord, not socialize. There are plenty of other times and places to do that. I belong to a big parish that is very friendly, we have many things for those who wish to join, Legion of Mary, St. Vincent De Paul Soc., Men’s Club, Perpetual Adoration, Pro-life activities, several dinners a year, Lent activities, Christmas activities, many, many ways to get together and socialize. So inside the Church is for prayer and Worship. We do not hold hands during The Lord’s Prayer as it is a prayer for God and our attention should not be on each other. It is NOT a part of Mass to hold hands anytime.

As for Catholics not reading the Bible, seems funny to me as we had Bible study books, Bible story books in school all the way thru Catholic schools. I have several copies of those old books. And did you know that if one attends Mass daily for 3 years in a row, you will have every bit of the Bible, Old and New Testaments alike, read to you in a 3 year cycle. . Even if one only went to Mass on Sundays, they still got plenty of scripture read to them. Maybe Catholics were taught not to interrupt the Bible yourself, (and we can all see the danger in that) but unless we deliberatly ignored what we were taught, its hard to imagine one not knowing anything about Scripture. Catholics do not zero in on certain verses and build our belief on that only. There is soo much more to it than that. *

How utterly, completely, entirely RIGHT you are, Memaw!!!

I know how the charismatics get worked up over sentiment and gush, but, you know, this aping of the sectaries (of whom Pentecostalists are very prominently visible, for better or worse) is appalling. It seems to me that one can leave room for the Holy Ghost to do His work and to manifest Himself, as the Eastern Orthodox long have done, without creating a three-ring circus or a fevered gathering for social to-dos.

I suspect that more folks have “voted with their feet” in ceasing to attend Mass, partly due to the liturgical downgrade of Novus Ordo based revisions, partly due to all the bad music, noise, and unwanted distractions from what is Holy and from the Wholly Other, than those whom all the charismatic antics have drawn. Also, I find that there is a “revolving door” aspect of all this, whether among sectaries, delusional Protestants or confused Roman Catholics throwing over their worship traditions. As Cole Porter stated it with such deadly succinctness and pertience, the interest that all this stirs up “is too hot not to cool down” (song, “Anything Goes”). So, after all the froth and excitement lose their novelty, these folks wander off and find their “kicks” somewhere else.

Jerry Parker

 

[Memaw]

Moen, I will try to answer some of your questions as best as I can. I went to a Catholic school until the 4th grade, then we moved to a farm near a small town in Iowa, with no Catholic Church for 15 miles. We seldome got to Mass after that. My father was an alcoholic and my Mother was a very loving, but strict, and VERY knowledgeable about her Catholic Faith. They had 12 children, 2 of which died in infancy. My oldest Brother quit school in the 7th grade to work and help Mom. Although all of us kids were raised by the same Mother and taught the same things, not all of us loved and practiced our faith as we should. Some still don’t. And their children don’t either, except the few that have found their way back. We were very poor and Mom had no books to teach us from. All we learned came from her memory which was remarkable. She only went to the 10th grade but she could still help me with my Algebra. She taught us our Faith and about Saints etc. She had a beautiful love for Our Lady and I learned about Fatima and Lourdes from her. She died of cancer at age 54 without ever taking any medicine for pain. She died in the hospital and the nurses and Dr. could verify that. She offered her suffering for her family. Not only was I Blessed by having such a devoted Mother but many things in my life have brought me along the path of my Faith. MY 1st husband took instructions into the faith just before the 2nd Vat. Council. and he died 1 year after becoming a Catholic. Later I remarried and my 2nd husband took instructions right after the Council and ‘before’ many of the abuses started. I took the instructions with them both. So I learned so much from the 2 classes. The priest that gave my 2nd husband inst. was from Germany and took part in much of the Council so he was very knowledgeable of it. I was later able to recognize many of the abuses that occurred. Continued

 

[Memaw]

Continued by Memaw,

As for those who just ‘set and listen’, that is their choice and we can’t blame the Church for their lack of interest. That has to come from within, and one has to seek knowledge of the Faith by putting out some effort to learn. One will never learn to drive a car if we just set there and watch others drive. The Catholic Mass has never been and I don’t believe ever will be a place of entertainment. We are NOT at Mass to be entertained, (although some have tried to make it that.) After Vat.Council II, many things were done that should never have been introduce into the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass by those who NEVER had the authority to do so. We are there to be inspired and raised to a higher level of worship for Our Lord. To join in HIS Sacrifice. The Mass is for worship, not fellowship. Fellowship comes at other times.

My mother’s brother was a priest, of happy memory, and Fr. Bill advised me in many ways. When things got rough, he said, “You didn’t abandon your dear Mother when she was sick, dying of Cancer, and you don’t abandon Holy Mother Church when she is suffering! She will recover and you want to be with Her when She does.”
The Catholic Church has lived through many trials and persecutions in Her 2,000 year History. She has lost many of her dear children to Heresies and Schisms, and Popes have tried for centuries to bring them back. And are still trying, I am very encouraged by that progress in the past decades. Many people may not be aware of it but one of the main reason’s why Pope John XXIII called the 2nd Vat. Council was to ’ Bring back the Separated Brethren.’ Jesus prayed for Unity in HIS Church and that Unity can only be found in the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC Church. Continued

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Use Me Lord,

You wrote: Memaw and Moen, thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I understand perfectly the desire of those traditionalists to have complete silence and reverence before Mass. That is not to say, however, that there is a rock concert atmosphere at my church where people are not totally mute. Quite to the contrary, although we are not exactly hushed before hand, we have utter and total awe for the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. As far as holding hands during The Lord’s Prayer, I feel there is almost an unbroken chain between me and the person on the other side of the church as we are altogether in complete unison with one another. And, to the contrary, I certainly honor and respect those such as my own son and daughter-in-law who do not share the same feeling. Personally, I think I have “the best of both worlds.” I just think maybe I would not have completed my RCIA journey if I had my instruction in a staid, demure setting.

There is such a thing as the devout and moderate charismatic. I initially was aghast when I learned that Mother Angelica had a charismatic streak, but she seems to have maintained moderation and balance on these matters, and Mother Angelica, of course, had a great devotion to Our Lord’s Eucharistic Presence that, by its very nature, values silence and decorum. It is really the “baloons and clowns” type of atmosphere at Mass, Vespers, etc. of some charismatic zealots that provokes me and others! At any rate, the worshipper never should try to draw attention to himself and to his own “spiritual gifts”, which, when ego enters the equation, are not really “spiritual” (in the godly sense, though they may be demonic in some way or to some degree).

Jerry Parker

 

[Memaw]

You also asked, "How can they be truly worshiping with their whole heart and then turn around and be so closed to other Christians setting right next to them. Just because they are quietly praying and worshiping Our Lord, doesn’t make then cold Christians. You have no idea what is in their heart. Try not to judge others for being quiet in prayer, that doesn’t imply they are ‘sour and mean’. Maybe the ‘others’ should be more respectful and thoughtful of those praying in Church. It is hard to meditate on the Mysteries of the Rosary, when those around you are chatting, etc. We should all try to be more understanding of others and have respect for Whose Presence we are in when in Church.
As you can see, us “born” Catholics have had our road to travel and crosses to bear too. I was also very Blessed to have met and heard so many great speakers and Converts to the Catholic Faith. like Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi, and others as well as Holy, Faithful Priests like Fr. John Hardon, Fr. John Corapi, Fr. Ben. Groeschel, Fr. Robert Fox,( 2 of my son’s went to Fatima with Fr. Fox.). I watch EWTN a lot and enjoy their programs. A Catholic today really has no excuse for not knowing their Holy Catholic faith. It is a a lifetime journey and the only true peace we will ever have. God Bless, Memaw.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Memaw,

You wrote: *You also asked, "How can they be truly worshiping with their whole heart and then turn around and be so closed to other Christians setting right next to them. Just because they are quietly praying and worshiping Our Lord, doesn’t make then cold Christians. You have no idea what is in their heart. Try not to judge others for being quiet in prayer, that doesn’t imply they are ‘sour and mean’. Maybe the ‘others’ should be more respectful and thoughtful of those praying in Church. It is hard to meditate on the Mysteries of the Rosary, when those around you are chatting, etc. We should all try to be more understanding of others and have respect for Whose Presence we are in when in Church. *

Thanks, Memaw, for reminding all of us to be mutually accomodating and humble, on whichever side of this charismatic issue we fall. You and I are among those who value traditional behaviour at Mass and at devotions above all else. However, there is a way to be charismatic but quiet and unintrusive on others. I personally, due to decades of problems with occultic opression (resolved when I was exorcised in the mid-1980s) tend to distrust and avoid any “spiritual manifestations”. However, others come from different vantage points.

Jerry Parker

 

[luminoushope]

You also asked, "How can they be truly worshiping with their whole heart and then turn around and be so closed to other Christians setting right next to them. Just because they are quietly praying and worshiping Our Lord, doesn’t make then cold Christians. You have no idea what is in their heart. Try not to judge others for being quiet in prayer, that doesn’t imply they are ‘sour and mean’. Maybe the ‘others’ should be more respectful and thoughtful of those praying in Church. It is hard to meditate on the Mysteries of the Rosary, when those around you are chatting, etc. We should all try to be more understanding of others and have respect for Whose Presence we are in when in Church.

With love, I tend toward agreement with you, Memaw. As a recovering evangelical I love the quiet in the Catholic Church. No longer must I “perform” with gestures, facial expressions, words, loud singing, etc. to “show” my relationship to the Lord to others. I think a church service is about the “vertical” relationship with God, not the “horizontal” relationship with others. There are other times for fellowship, and if we are serious about that, we will make the time for it rather than expecting it at Mass. I love fellowship and I have wonderful Catholic friends who are easing my way into becoming a Catholic. Their respect and love for the mass and the sanctuary is part of that!

I do not expect or want to be entertained in church. When I went to Prot. church, with all the entertainment, I was forever looking at my watch. Now that I go to Catholic church, I never look at my watch and once as a result was late to meet my husband after our respective churches!

Evangelicals would typically raise their eyebrows when I told them that no one person “led me to the Lord”, because this is the pattern they expect. In my case, as the child of a secular Jewish family, I always wanted to know about God. This desire grew and took me through much reading and searching until at 33 I found myself seriously ill, hospitalized and helpless. So much for my pride. I asked for a Bible to be brought to me, and there in the hospital room, I gave my life to Jesus Christ. He was my Friend, and I had the most beautiful fellowship with Him. There have been times in my life when God was all I had, and I’ve kind of gotten used to that, I guess that was where He wanted me.

There is nothing wrong with enjoying fellowship. “Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.”

Love, L.H.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Memaw,

You wrote: *At the risk of sounding like an old ‘stick in the mud’, traditional’ Catholic, in defense of reverence for Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament, I believe silence in Church is very important. There are people there praying and it is very difficult to pray when others are talking, laughing etc, around you. We are there to Worship and spend time with Our Lord, not socialize. There are plenty of other times and places to do that. I belong to a big parish that is very friendly, we have many things for those who wish to join, Legion of Mary, St. Vincent De Paul Soc., Men’s Club, Perpetual Adoration, Pro-life activities, several dinners a year, Lent activities, Christmas activities, many, many ways to get together and socialize. So inside the Church is for prayer and Worship. We do not hold hands during The Lord’s Prayer as it is a prayer for God and our attention should not be on each other. It is NOT a part of Mass to hold hands anytime.

As for Catholics not reading the Bible, seems funny to me as we had Bible study books, Bible story books in school all the way thru Catholic schools. I have several copies of those old books. And did you know that if one attends Mass daily for 3 years in a row, you will have every bit of the Bible, Old and New Testaments alike, read to you in a 3 year cycle. . Even if one only went to Mass on Sundays, they still got plenty of scripture read to them. Maybe Catholics were taught not to interrupt the Bible yourself, (and we can all see the danger in that) but unless we deliberatly ignored what we were taught, its hard to imagine one not knowing anything about Scripture. Catholics do not zero in on certain verses and build our belief on that only. There is soo much more to it than that. *

How utterly, completely, entirely RIGHT you are, Memaw!!!

I know how the charismatics get worked up over sentiment and gush, but, you know, this aping of the sectaries (of whom Pentecostalists are very prominently visible, for better or worse) is appalling. It seems to me that one can leave room for the Holy Ghost to do His work and to manifest Himself, as the Eastern Orthodox long have done, without creating a three-ring circus or a fevered gathering for social to-dos.

I suspect that more folks have “voted with their feet” in ceasing to attend Mass, partly due to the liturgical downgrade of Novus Ordo based revisions, partly due to all the bad music, noise, and unwanted distractions from what is Holy and from the Wholly Other, than those whom all the charismatic antics have drawn. Also, I find that there is a “revolving door” aspect of all this, whether among sectaries, delusional Protestants or confused Roman Catholics throwing over their worship traditions. As Cole Porter stated it with such deadly succinctness and pertience, the interest that all this stirs up “is too hot not to cool down” (song, “Anything Goes”). So, after all the froth and excitement lose their novelty, these folks wander off and find their “kicks” somewhere else.

Jerry Parker

I remember going to a pentacostal church once where during the worship service a pigeon or dove tried to come into the sanctuary but bumped into the window. And someone commented “Do you think the Lord is trying to tell us something?” Maybe he was!

 

[moen]

I can’t write much now, but Memaw please re-read my post. It’s not at all the “quietness” that’s in question. It’s the sour looks after two years of trying to get to know people in this church. After my initiations here, there’s little if any openess. I was not at all questioning their heart in worship, for it IS the heart that the important thing in worship.

I wonder about the disgust many would look upon David with as he danced with abandon only a loin cloth in front of the ark of the convenant, where God struck barren the one who despised his open worship. Also the man who beat his breast and yelled out loud in church, “Have mercy on me, a sinner”--------I wonder how that would go over nowadays…I’m sure he’d be hawled off as crazy.
Anyway----as you said, it’s the heart, and we can’t judge.

The Lord’s Ranch is a Catholic ministry in dirt-poor Mexico. Their worship is light years different than what you speak of as reverent. I’ve seen video------they dance, hold hands, sing loudly…and there’s an openess and smiles everywhere. Different nations worship differently, some loud, some quiet. No, we can’t judge. Are they “wrong” in their lack of reverence? I may or may not make a good Catholic someday…

 

[usemelord]

After reading and sharing a lot of beautiful conversion stories, I think we are now getting far afield from that once the discussion turned to the manner in which Mass should be celebrated and observed. When I first entertained the notion of becoming Catholic, I thought the term Catholic Christian was an oxymoron. Then I discovered there are actually Evangelical Catholic Christians, an oxy-oxymoron. Going one step further there are those who can best be described as Charismatic Evangelical Catholic Christians, an oxy-oxy-oxymoron. Let’s face it. We all desperately love everything about the Mass and what the Catholic Church stands for. But, at the same time, many of us have individual preferences regarding the manner in which we wish to worship. To me, that does not detract one iota from what we derive which is a closer and closer relationship to Christ and His Church. I hesitate to say that it is simply a matter of one’s own “style” or perspective, or “to each his own.” It’s much more than that, of course. Nonetheless, we all end up getting to the same place together…at the feet of the Cross. What better place to set aside our petty differences.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Luminous Hope,

You wrote: *With love, I tend toward agreement with … Memaw. As a recovering evangelical I love the quiet in the Catholic Church. No longer must I “perform” with gestures, facial expressions, words, loud singing, etc. to “show” my relationship to the Lord to others. I think a church service is about the “vertical” relationship with God, not the “horizontal” relationship with others. There are other times for fellowship, and if we are serious about that, we will make the time for it rather than expecting it at Mass. I love fellowship and I have wonderful Catholic friends who are easing my way into becoming a Catholic. Their respect and love for the mass and the sanctuary is part of that!

I do not expect or want to be entertained in church. When I went to Prot[estant]. church, with all the entertainment, I was forever looking at my watch. Now that I go to Catholic church, I never look at my watch and once as a result was late to meet my husband after our respective churches!*

Thanks for those insightful words, L.H.! I and Memaw are at one, and you with us, on this matter of tranquillity and quiet at worship. To tell the truth, I think that I would be devastated if, on becoming Roman Catholic, my parish were to “go charismatic”. I just am not at ease with all that bustling and hullabuloo! I want to feel close with my Lord Jesus, with Whom I have communion in every way at the Mass. I would have to seek another parish, if that were to happen. Fortunately, the only English-speaking congregation here in Rouyn-Noranda (Québec) is relatively conservative and pious; also fortunately, Rouyn-Noranda is large enough to have several French parishes.

I know what you mean about not being aware of time passing at the Eucharist. That happens especially in Byzantine services, which last twice to thrice the length of Western Rite services, including both the 1962 and especially the1970 Novus Ordo liturgies. Time should (and can!) seem irrelevant. A leisurely Mass according to the Missale Romanum is spiritually refreshing partly due precisely to its situation in eternity, not in time, as I perceive it.

Yeah, the charismatic crowd makes the Mass in the mould of the sects, even as in other ways the modernists make the liturgy in the mould of Protestantism. Let Catholicism be truly Catholic, traditionalism that is alive!

Jerry Parker

 

[Memaw]

After reading and sharing a lot of beautiful conversion stories, I think we are now getting far afield from that once the discussion turned to the manner in which Mass should be celebrated and observed. When I first entertained the notion of becoming Catholic, I thought the term Catholic Christian was an oxymoron. Then I discovered there are actually Evangelical Catholic Christians, an oxy-oxymoron. Going one step further there are those who can best be described as Charismatic Evangelical Catholic Christians, an oxy-oxy-oxymoron. Let’s face it. We all desperately love everything about the Mass and what the Catholic Church stands for. But, at the same time, many of us have individual preferences regarding the manner in which we wish to worship. To me, that does not detract one iota from what we derive which is a closer and closer relationship to Christ and His Church. I hesitate to say that it is simply a matter of one’s own “style” or perspective, or “to each his own.” It’s much more than that, of course. Nonetheless, we all end up getting to the same place together…at the feet of the Cross. What better place to set aside our petty differences.

I agree, we are getting off thread here and need to get back to the original question for Converts," What is your story?" The Mass belongs to the Church and should be done according to the Rubics of the Catholic Church and nothing else. Converts should know and understand this. Those doing the Mass otherwise are not following the Rubics of the Mass and only cause confusion among its followers. There is no “to each his own,” when it comes to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. God Bless, Memaw.

 

[NPalmby]

What a wonderful topic for this forum! I’m happy to share my story with you!

I was first introduced to the Church early in college because the young man I was dating was Catholic. I started attending Mass with his family on Saturdays, and he started attending services at my family’s Baptist church on Sundays. In attending Mass with his family, I began to ask questions about the Church, and found answers in my faith that were left open-ended by the Baptist church in which I’d been raised. In short, the Catholic Church seemed to simply make sense to me.

When he and I got engaged, I was getting ready to move to my mother’s house (she and my father are divorced) to continue my college education. That fall, I joined the local RCIA class.

Each week in RCIA, I found myself falling more and more in love with the Church. So many questions were answered for me, and it’s such a rich, beautiful practice! Every time I stepped into the church for Masses, I felt completely at peace. I finally felt, spiritually, that I was home!

I was baptized in the Baptist church previously, but at Easter Vigil 2004, I was brought into full communion in the Catholic Church.

There have been a few times since then, sadly, that I’ve withdrawn somewhat from the Church, but I’m happy to say that now I feel stronger in my faith than I ever have!

 

[marcylee]

(

Luminous Hope,

You wrote: *With love, I tend toward agreement with … Memaw. As a recovering evangelical I love the quiet in the Catholic Church. No longer must I “perform” with gestures, facial expressions, words, loud singing, etc. to “show” my relationship to the Lord to others. I think a church service is about the “vertical” relationship with God, not the “horizontal” relationship with others. There are other times for fellowship, and if we are serious about that, we will make the time for it rather than expecting it at Mass. I love fellowship and I have wonderful Catholic friends who are easing my way into becoming a Catholic. Their respect and love for the mass and the sanctuary is part of that!

I do not expect or want to be entertained in church. When I went to Prot[estant]. church, with all the entertainment, I was forever looking at my watch. Now that I go to Catholic church, I never look at my watch and once as a result was late to meet my husband after our respective churches!*

Thanks for those insightful words, L.H.! I and Memaw are at one, and you with us, on this matter of tranquillity and quiet at worship. To tell the truth, I think that I would be devastated if, on becoming Roman Catholic, my parish were to “go charismatic”. I just am not at ease with all that bustling and hullabuloo! I want to feel close with my Lord Jesus, with Whom I have communion in every way at the Mass. I would have to seek another parish, if that were to happen. Fortunately, the only English-speaking congregation here in Rouyn-Noranda (Québec) is relatively conservative and pious; also fortunately, Rouyn-Noranda is large enough to have several French parishes.

I know what you mean about not being aware of time passing at the Eucharist. That happens especially in Byzantine services, which last twice to thrice the length of Western Rite services, including both the 1962 and especially the1970 Novus Ordo liturgies. Time should (and can!) seem irrelevant. A leisurely Mass according to the Missale Romanum is spiritually refreshing partly due precisely to its situation in eternity, not in time, as I perceive it.

Yeah, the charismatic crowd makes the Mass in the mould of the sects, even as in other ways the modernists make the liturgy in the mould of Protestantism. Let Catholicism be truly Catholic, traditionalism that is alive!

Jerry Parker

Hi Jerry (and Memaw, Luminous, and Moen)!

I’ve been away for awhile. I’ve had some deaths in my family which as taken up a lot of time. I have several relatives in their late 90s, so that is to be expected. I haven’t had time to read all of the posts, but I agree, the Catholic Church needs to stick to tradition, that is why I have been so attracted to it. Being raised Protestant and then going to the sectaries, I was glad to find a place where tradition counts. I love the liturgy and the calendar that is always the same. I love all the prayers and the Rosary. I like being part of a tradition that has gone on since our Lord was here on the earth. I’m very drawn to pre-Vatican II liturgy. My husband was raised in pre-Vatican II, so he is filling me in on this.

I have nothing against the Charismatic movement. I was a part of this at one time. I have been to Charismatic Catholic seminars. It seems to encourage people to become caught up too much in emotionalism. I know feelings are important. But what we feel is not necessarily real. Only the God of Isreal is real, and the way He reveals himself is through His Word and His Church. The Church is founded on God’s word, not on people’s feelings. Many sectaries and cults are founded on people’s private interpetation of the scriptures. (Hi Jerry! I learned about “sectaries” from you, you catechist in the rough). God Bless! Marcylee

 

[marcylee]

Wow! I was looking up “novus ordo” on a website, and they consider all the Popes since 1958 to not be true Popes. Does anyone have any insight in this?

 

[CB_Catholic]

Wow! I was looking up “novus ordo” on a website, and they consider all the Popes since 1958 to not be true Popes. Does anyone have any insight in this?

They probably are what is called sedevacantists–they are not in communion with the Church. They do not consider any Pope since Pius Xll to be a true Pope–they consider the See of Peter vacant. They reject Vatican ll and the Mass of Paul Vl, which is commonly called the “novus ordo”, which is the Ordinary Form of the Mass, or OF, which is the Mass said in most churches since Vatican ll. The term EF (Extraordinary Form) refers to the traditional Latin Mass, also referred to as the TLM, which was the Mass said in Latin before Vatican II, which previously could only be said by an indult from the Bishop of a diocese or Rome since Vatican ll, but now does not need an indult to be said. They accept this Mass, but not the Pope. These terms can be confusing. I hope this explanation clears up the confusion.

Just remember that sedevacantists are not in communion with Rome, and their Masses do not fulfill your Mass obligations, but the EF or TLM said by a priest in communion with the Church does. You need to check this out first before you attend a TLM, as it can be confusing.

 

[moen]

I agree, we are getting off thread here and need to get back to the original question for Converts," What is your story?" The Mass belongs to the Church and should be done according to the Rubics of the Catholic Church and nothing else. Converts should know and understand this. Those doing the Mass otherwise are not following the Rubics of the Mass and only cause confusion among its followers. There is no “to each his own,” when it comes to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. God Bless, Memaw.

Memaw, I am a bit crushed at what I see happening to my precious convert thread…it seems now we have been polarized and forced to take sides, and I’m wondering what is your intent here on this thread?

It started as a breath of fresh air and a delight to read, as others have said. With all due respect, I’d like to say that this thread started for converts…to share our/their stories. There are plenty of threads here regarding what you and other cradle Catholics might want to bring to the table.

Let’s save this precious thread for converts to share stories. It was bringing life to me as I prepare to enter the CC.

 

[marcylee]

They probably are what is called sedevacantists–they are not in communion with the Church. They do not consider any Pope since Pius Xll to be a true Pope–they consider the See of Peter vacant. They reject Vatican ll and the Mass of Paul Vl, which is commonly called the “novus ordo”, which is the Ordinary Form of the Mass, or OF, which is the Mass said in most churches since Vatican ll. The term EF (Extraordinary Form) refers to the traditional Latin Mass, also referred to as the TLM, which was the Mass said in Latin before Vatican II, which previously could only be said by an indult from the Bishop of a diocese or Rome since Vatican ll, but now does not need an indult to be said. They accept this Mass, but not the Pope. These terms can be confusing. I hope this explanation clears up the confusion.

Thanks Carolyn. I think I’ll stick with my current English-speaking parish and glean whatever I can from the CCC. I’m pretty new at this. It is easy to get cofused with so many voices out there.

God Bless. Marcy

Just remember that sedevacantists are not in communion with Rome, and their Masses do not fulfill your Mass obligations, but the EF or TLM said by a priest in communion with the Church does. You need to check this out first before you attend a TLM, as it can be confusing.