Question for Homeschoolers

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estesbob

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Ill start this out by saying that i think home schooling is great. I have run into a situation , however, that i find troubling. i have a client who is homeschooling her children-two boys-they are 9 and 12. She was in the other day and mentioned the 9 year old can not read. That everytime they try to teach him he thorws a fit and they allow him to play video games to settle him down.

I know there are a lot of 9 year olds in public school that cant read BUT this kid is being seriously harmed by his parents reluctance to teach him to read. is there anything I should/could do about this?
 
Well I’m not sure of the whole situation, but maybe I could make a few suggestion.
You stated that she is a client? Without devulging confidentalities, in what capacity is this ? Your relationship may be helpful to the situation. If she is a homeschooler, at least in most states they have to give an account of their progress at the end of the year do you know who that might be, public school board or other provider, like an umbrella school ? They are usually more than willing to assist when difficuties arise such as these. Suggesting that her son be tested for a learnig disability may be a good start. It is possible that the problem may be biologically based. Has he had a physical lately? Of course there is always the possiblility that a lack of dicipline during school is just exasperating the problem. Your concern for her and her son is a great start. It isn’t easy sometimes to approach these kind of family issues. I pray the Lord will give you wisdom and guide you as you reach out to this family.

(please excuse any spelling errors, once again I am being challanged in this area today):doh2:
 
I might rather quietly mention that video games REDUCE attention span and RAISE levels of irritability, so if they feel they need a break from pushing the reading - fine, but I wouldn’t use video gaming. If anything it sounds like it would be more productive to make video gaming the reward for time spent on reading efforts.
I also see a discipline issue there. My kids occassionally throw fits too. (ALL kids do!) but um… no, they are NOT going to win that battle. The absolute most a fit would get my 9 yr old boy is a trip to stand in a lonely corner until he is ready to resume approriate behavior and join our studies. He sure would not get rewarded for his fit with video gaming.
As for what YOU should do with this client…
Nothing.
I would not suggest the above unless it was a close friend or I was asked my opinion. Even then it probably wouldn’t go over very well. People don’t care to hear negative about their parenting.😉
**Altho you might suggest **
explode the code online game-style phonics lessons or starfall. (those would be my gaming rewards, but that is just mnsho)
at least then he’d get something out of it. maybe.🤷
 
These were just suggestion based on her relationship with this person. Sorry if it was taken wrong. I am not suggesting she criticze the parenting of this person. Sometimes it isn’t as easy as just changing the type of method of the teaching. If he is nine, and can’t read this suggest it colud be something else. Do what you feel is best.You know the person and the situation we are merely addressing posible cause and possible solutions. Be blessed!
 
I would do nothing. My own son did not read until he was closer to 11, then he didn’t stop. 😉 Some kids aren’t ready. While I personally wouldn’t allow video games as a “reward” for not doing school work, I also wouldn’t push it with a kid if everything else was going well.

Are you sure this kid is being seriously harmed? I don’t know how close you are, or what kind of client they are. If the child isn’t doing any school work, or getting any kind of stimulation, then he may be being harmed. But just because he doesn’t read doesn’t automatically mean that he is being harmed, it could just mean he isn’t ready. Homeschooling is a complex adventure.

However, I did use video/computer games as a “bait” of sorts. I would just not read the game to him, if he wanted to know how to play, he had to read it himself.
 
estesbob said:
Ill start this out by saying that i think home schooling is great. I have run into a situation , however, that i find troubling. i have a client who is homeschooling her children-two boys-they are 9 and 12. She was in the other day and mentioned the 9 year old can not read. That everytime they try to teach him he thorws a fit and they allow him to play video games to settle him down.

I know there are a lot of 9 year olds in public school that cant read BUT this kid is being seriously harmed by his parents reluctance to teach him to read. is there anything I should/could do about this?
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Someone already asked the question about in what capacity this person is your client. What I would suggest depends on that answer. If the mother mentioned it to you, she may be asking for your help/advice. I imagine the situation frustrates her, but she might not know what to do.

While I understand your concern that she may be harming her child by not teaching him to read, if the child isn’t ready to read forcing him to read might do more harm than good. According to one book by John Medina, Ph.D. (brain researcher) called “Brain Rules” 10% of children have brains that are not sufficiently developed to read at the age when traditional schools teach reading. Your client might do better to focus on pre-reading skills, such a rhyming, beginning sound and ending sound, patterns, etc. rather than pushing her son to read. Such pre-reading skills may seem rather basic, but some children develop phonetic awareness later than others. Such children may be prone to developing dyslexia or other reading problems that possible might be avoided if not pushed to read before they are ready. I don’t think one should give up on teaching reading and let a child play video games to “calm down”–unless perhaps he plays educational games to better develop his pre-reading skills.
 
gardenswithkids said:
Someone already asked the question about in what capacity this person is your client. What I would suggest depends on that answer. If the mother mentioned it to you, she may be asking for your help/advice. I imagine the situation frustrates her, but she might not know what to do.
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I am a CPA
 
estesbob said:
Ill start this out by saying that i think home schooling is great. I have run into a situation , however, that i find troubling. i have a client who is homeschooling her children-two boys-they are 9 and 12. She was in the other day and mentioned the 9 year old can not read. That everytime they try to teach him he thorws a fit and they allow him to play video games to settle him down.

I know there are a lot of 9 year olds in public school that cant read BUT this kid is being seriously harmed by his parents reluctance to teach him to read. is there anything I should/could do about this?
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Without knowing more (and there could be a lot more that affects our comments), it sounds like the 9-year-old is running the family. The parents are rewarding him for throwing fits; it’s no wonder he continues to throw them.

If your only relationship is CPA to client (i.e., you aren’t also fellow parishioners, old friends, etc.), then you don’t really have a lot you can do in this situation – other than to offer advice if asked. In all likelihood, sooner or later (probably sooner, given his age) the child will fail the state-mandated tests, and he will be removed from home schooling. This is probably a good thing, as the parents appear not to be any good at parenting, let alone teaching.

. . . Again, assuming there isn’t something else going on that none of us knows about.
 
Godfollower said:
Without knowing more (and there could be a lot more that affects our comments), it sounds like the 9-year-old is running the family. The parents are rewarding him for throwing fits; it’s no wonder he continues to throw them.

If your only relationship is CPA to client (i.e., you aren’t also fellow parishioners, old friends, etc.), then you don’t really have a lot you can do in this situation – other than to offer advice if asked. In all likelihood, sooner or later (probably sooner, given his age) the child will fail the state-mandated tests, and he will be removed from home schooling. This is probably a good thing, as the parents appear not to be any good at parenting, let alone teaching.

. . . Again, assuming there isn’t something else going on that none of us knows about.
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Thx. i didnt realize there were State mandated tests.
 
estesbob said:
Thx. i didnt realize there were State mandated tests.
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that’s because there might not be where you live
every state is different
and even in the states that have them, the student usually doesn’t have to attend ps if they score poorly.
if you’re only a business interest, you have no more right to comment on her child’s education than if her child were attending a public or private school- IOW, it’s none of your business.
said as nicely as one can say such truths.😉
 
My guess is that he wouldn’t read if he were in school, either. There is a discipline problem here, though. Big time. They should find a school for him. Maybe he needs to be motivated by being in a class with others who would be competitive with him. Even a co-op school or virtual school.
 
B]As for what YOU should do with this client…
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Nothing.
if you’re only a business interest, you have no more right to comment on her child’s education than if her child were attending a public or private school- IOW, it’s none of your business.
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BUT this kid is being seriously harmed by his parents reluctance to teach him to read. is there anything I should/could do about this?
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This is a pretty strong statement, that a child is being seriously harmed by his parents. Did she say they were reluctant to teach him?

Did you say a prayer?

I know sometimes we are sent strange things at the oddest of times. This woman had business with you that did not include her son, but she was probably having a particularly hard day and just blurted this out. Why to you? Maybe because you would be bothered enough and say a prayer for her. After all, it bothered you enough for you to start a thread on a catholic blog site.

This may seem off the subject but there is something mentioned about the Pharaoh’s heart being hardened because he had no one to pray for him that has always bothered me. If the Hebrews would have only prayed for the Pharaoh how different their plight would have been. They had four hundred years to do so.
 
estesbob said:
I am a CPA
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Since you’re a CPA your advice could focus on the financial aspect of education and parenting. Are there deductions available if they have their child tested for dyslexia or other learning problems by private sources? How about medical deductions for speech therapy evaluation to assess the child’s phonetic awareness in speech and hearing, in addition to hearing and eye exams if such evaluations are not covered by their insurance? Are there deductions for counseling or parenting classes? Some of these services may be available through public school districts, but not all districts have teachers and experts who are well qualified to identify and address such problems.

While I don’t doubt your client’s parenting and teaching skill have much room for improvement, from what I have read about dyslexia and learning problems, I don’t think their problems are simply caused by poor parenting or poor teaching. Many children in regular classrooms have reading problems, and most certified teachers face frustrations and challenges when dealing with children who have ADD/ADHD/dyslexia/& other learing disorders. The number of children with learning disorders in traditional classroom is quite high, and the recommendation for dealing with learning disorders usually involves development of individual learning programs. Homeschooling can ideally provide individualized learning, but the parents need to know what the child needs.

It sounds like the mom expressed her frustration to you–someone who started out this thread by saying you think homeschooling is great. In addition to praying, you might help them by letting her know some of the financial and other resources available for parents with children who struggle with doing school work.

Here’s a website your clients might find helpful: hslda.org/strugglinglearner/default.asp
 
Disclaimer, not a home school-er but a parent, so take this for what it’s worth…

To me, it’s more of a red flag that the child is ‘throwing a fit’ when the parents are attempting to teach him, and that he is (calmed? appeased?) by the video games. We have precious little information about this family and the child, but this tidbit coupled with not being able to read at age 9 makes me take notice. If it was just simply a matter of not being able to read at his age that in and of itself wouldn’t concern me, but coupled with the behavioral issues, it does.

I think gardens gave great advice on how to best broach the subject with these parents.
 
estesbob said:
Ill start this out by saying that i think home schooling is great. I have run into a situation , however, that i find troubling. i have a client who is homeschooling her children-two boys-they are 9 and 12. She was in the other day and mentioned the 9 year old can not read. That everytime they try to teach him he thorws a fit and they allow him to play video games to settle him down.

I know there are a lot of 9 year olds in public school that cant read BUT this kid is being seriously harmed by his parents reluctance to teach him to read. is there anything I should/could do about this?
Click to expand...
I wonder if you can suggest that she looks into some homeschooling co-op groups or something? Or a tutor who specializes in reading? Sometimes a particular method of teaching from one person just doesn’t click, and another person’s approach may just trigger that skill?
My own personal experience with teaching methods showed that there is a lot of variability from one teacher to the next - some methods just click with some students and others don’t. (For example, my middle school math teacher *literally *told me “You probably will always struggle with math, it’s just not your thing”… Yet, I’m an engineer who minored in mathematics in college. :rolleyes:)

Mom might just not be the right teacher for this subject… maybe suggest she looks for outside help!🙂
 
estesbob said:
I am a CPA
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Absolutely not - how completely unprofessional to meddle in someone’s personal life when it is not relevant to your professional relationship. You have no idea of this child might have some disability you are not aware of, or what else the family might be doing.

Now - if you are more than just CPA/client, and are friends, then the situation may be different. But if you ONLY have a professional relationship with them then it is not appropriate to comment on how they are raising their children.

You are not an education professional and have no place to comment on such circumstances. Even if she asks.

~Liza
 
lizaanne said:
Absolutely not - how completely unprofessional to meddle in someone’s personal life when it is not relevant to your professional relationship. You have no idea of this child might have some disability you are not aware of, or what else the family might be doing…You are not an education professional and have no place to comment on such circumstances. Even if she asks.
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The mom brought this up to him–he didn’t go out searching for ways to “meddle” in their lives. And since when do only “educational professionals” have a right to comment on education when asked?

Most educational professionals do *not *have expertise in learning disorders and other disabilities. Teachers in classrooms typically teach by methods that work for the *majority of children. *Those methods don’t work for every child. Someone friendly to homeschooling–even if he is just the family’s CPA–might be better able to offer supportive advice than an “educational professional” with a vested interest in children attending public schools.

As Shanny K said, the “red flag” for me is that the child is throwing a fit when the mom tries to teach him to read. Most children may go through days when they don’t want to do schoolwork–that’s normal. But a fit is not. Children want to learn about something, and children are always learning–that’s the way God made them. The question comes down to *what *are they learning? If they aren’t learning what their parents and teachers want them to learn, why not?

Estesbob may not be an educational professional or family counselor, but there may be a way for him to relate this to his professional involvement with the family–such as possible deductions for educational expenses. I don’t think he has the full picture of what’s going on just based off a comment from this mom, but he’s been given a glimpse that something isn’t working right for this family. Family stresses ultimately affect other things in the family–including the family finances which is part of his business. (An illiterate nine year old may not be a huge financial burden, but an illiterate 22 year old child likely would be.) I suggest Estesbob keep the focus on his part of their business, while suggesting things that might actually help this family with a struggling learner. But he shouldn’t “blame the mom” (or her parenting and teaching skills) because there very likely may be something else going on with this child.
 
I agree with Liza, simply because I may mention to someone something about my kids that bothers me, doesn’t mean I really want their (name removed by moderator)ut. I will generally specifically ask for advice if I want it.

I had to tell one of my exchange students bluntly…In this culture (right or wrong) it is considered incredibly rude to tell parents that their methods are wrong, or that their kid is out of control, or a brat or whatever else. I may know my kid has issues, but you don’t need to mention it, that will just upset me.

Their are so many variables here, and we don’t know them all. The mother may have meant that the kid doesn’t like/want to read, more than he can’t read. She may have just had a bad day, or it could just be a phase of some kind. A “fit” can mean different things to different folks, I overuse that word just to mean my kid said no, I don’t want to, it doesn’t always mean a screaming fit.

I think that the best idea would be to pray for this family. At most maybe offer some information on co-ops or homeschool groups in the area. Anything past that and you are sticking your nose in where it doesn’t belong.
 
In defense of Bob –

From viewing his posts on CAF, he doesn’t strike me as a meddler. Yet this incident bothered him enough to start a thread asking for advice. That makes me think this was more than just an idle “Oh, what a day I’m having; my 9-year-old threw a fit to avoid reading class” comment. I think she actually asked him about a 9-year-old who throws fits to avoid reading and who calms down when given videos to watch instead, and Bob is entitled to answer – even if he is “just” her CPA, even if he isn’t educated in educational methods, even if he isn’t a parent. By asking his opinion, the mother granted him license to tell her what it was.

Even to the point of “Hey, you asked me about something the other week, and it was bothering me, and I thought of something. Have you considered . . . .?”

And, if there are tax-deductible or tax-exempt thingies (that’s a technical term:p) that could help her, such as testing or counseling, he is absolutely entitled to suggest them, even if she did NOT ask for child-rearing advice. That’s his job.
 
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