Question for LDS "Do you Marry the dead?"

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lax16 said:
I am sure this is true. However, doesn’t baptizing the dead contradict the teachings of the Book of Mormon?

Baptisms for the dead do not appear in the BoM as far as I know.

Alma 34:35-36: “For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he does seal you his. Therefore, the spirit of the Lord has withdrawn from you and hath no place in you; the power of the devil is over you, and this is the final state of the wicked.”

2 Nephi 9:15: “And it shall come to pass that when all men shall have passed from this first death unto life, insomuch as they have become immortal, they must appear before the judgment seat of the Holy One of Israel, and then cometh the judgment and then must they be judged according to the holy judgment of God. For the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy . . . shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end.”
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Baptism for the Dead is not in the Book of Mormon. it was established by later “revelation”.
 
Peter John,

I have to step out…taking a break…so what is then the difference between Catholic/Christian baptism and context vs Mormon’s.
 
rock17 said:
Thank you for clarifying about the who is on the lds rolls PeterJohn it does make it better, I am not mad I am just confused on why they would say they would not do something or completely disregard the wishes of people of the Jewish faith and many others. So this they are not hurting anyone may be true in the sense that they are really not doing anything other than LYING! and your comment about how baptism of the dead is differnet than just regular baptism is hard to understand, both are baptising souls are they not? And your parralells between praying for someone and baptising them are not correct. But if you wish to take this stance that nothing is wrong with not being truthful about what one is doing in the name of someones realative than that is your opinion but my opinion is that I would rather they pray for my family member but not perform a ritual with a kid standing in as a proxy in thier name.
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I cannot speak anything for the leaders ethics in implementing their policies or keeping their commitments. Neither can I do anything about iot. I can only put the overal practice in perspective. It may seem significantly different in concept from the work catholics do on behalf od the dead, but as far as the internal perspectivce one mainatins of it, that is how it is. If you understood the practice as a Mormon does – as I do – you would understand why I say they compare. It is our perception on baptism in general that is different. From a Catholic perspective, their baptism is not baptism at all.
 
Alright I can see that but I would like to know than what is the difference between Catholic and Mormon baptism?
 
Fr. Ladaria the author of the article you posted said the Baptism of the LDS is based on a heresy, and I think as a Catholic Christian it is my duty to help people see the wrong in what they are doing and not stand by not doing anything. Many people in Church history have died while argueing for what is right so I would see myself almost a coward to stand down as you seem you want us to do or you want us not get made but get even this is not a matter of being mad it is a matter of saving souls and helping people see the right path and staying away from heresey so I will continue to have this conversation on Marriage and Baptism of the dead because I feel I am compelled to.
Thank you
 
rock17 said:
Fr. Ladaria the author of the article you posted said the Baptism of the LDS is based on a heresy, and I think as a Catholic Christian it is my duty to help people see the wrong in what they are doing and not stand by not doing anything. Many people in Church history have died while argueing for what is right so I would see myself almost a coward to stand down as you seem you want us to do or you want us not get made but get even this is not a matter of being mad it is a matter of saving souls and helping people see the right path and staying away from heresey so I will continue to have this conversation on Marriage and Baptism of the dead because I feel I am compelled to.
Thank you
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That’s fine. best thing you can still do is have masses said for them and pray rosaries. They need to be really baptized themselves, and disputing over their preoccupation with a practice of nil effect anyway will not achieve that, and could hinder it.

Since my conversion to catholicism I think the greatest tragedy of Mormonism is that thousands of people so inclined to a life of Faith go through life unbaptized. They sing “I am a Child of God” without realizing they have never recieved the sacrament that makes it so.
 
KathleenGee said:
Rock,

Sympathize totally…but I am beginning to see that perhaps even their baptisms are not the same thing either…ours incorporates us into the living presence of Christ, the foundation of our faith.

But it sounds like a compulsion on their part…considering their beliefs…
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Same here, Rock. Though I find it very disrespectful, too. Kathleen is right. Catholic and Protestant baptism does incorporate the living presence of Jesus. The very reason. The Catholic church did not “re-baptise” me. When I converted to Catholisim. I already had this sacrament, as an infant in the Methodist church. The reverse would have been the same.
 
This has been such an interesting thread, and I just want to thank everyone who has contributed.

I’ve noticed (just anecdotally) that more people are exploring the true beliefs of Mormons instead of simply buying the public LDS assertion of being just another Christian/Protestant sect. I’ve heard that Evangelical Protestant ministers are starting to preach on the “heresy” (in quotes out of deference to our Mormon brothers and sisters) in increasing numbers. I guess this is all a result of Mitt Romney’s candidacy??

In any case, I think it is good to have learn about another faith. Personally, I’ve found myself flip-flopping on this particular thread’s topic so much I’m positively dizzy.
 
sojo said:
This has been such an interesting thread, and I just want to thank everyone who has contributed.

I’ve noticed (just anecdotally) that more people are exploring the true beliefs of Mormons instead of simply buying the public LDS assertion of being just another Christian/Protestant sect. I’ve heard that Evangelical Protestant ministers are starting to preach on the “heresy” (in quotes out of deference to our Mormon brothers and sisters) in increasing numbers. I guess this is all a result of Mitt Romney’s candidacy??

In any case, I think it is good to have learn about another faith. Personally, I’ve found myself flip-flopping on this particular thread’s topic so much I’m positively dizzy.
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Same for me. I would also like to thank everyone. Before reading these threads. I thought the LDS was another Christian denomination. I knew very little about their beliefs.

God bless all of you!
 
I would also like to thank everyone who has chimed in, this has been good.
 
lax16 said:
Okay, but my question is this:

in the case of Blessed John Paul II and Blessed Mother Theresa…would they be married to someone in order to achieve the highest level of heaven? The were baptized, confirmed, then…???

Why stop there?
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Parker - I am posting this again for the third time.

Actually, this is what the OP originally asked and the conversation has ended up being about baptisms of the dead.
 
PeterJohn,

Thanks for the link…its reference to Arians being baptized into the mystical Body of Christ was probably what Pinay was referring to…in spite of their misunderstanding of Mormonism.

But this link also repeats what I have seen continually with cyclic posts is that the same words are used but in different application…or the tradition of how we live out our faith with these concepts is so so different in Mormonism.
 
lax16 said:
Okay, but my question is this:

in the case of Blessed John Paul II and Blessed Mother Theresa…would they be married to someone in order to achieve the highest level of heaven? The were baptized, confirmed, then…???

Why stop there?
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Theoretically they could be, but that does not mean they actually are. The keys of sealing have historically been treated with great autnomy. Essentially two guidlines cover their application: 1) Everyone needs all of these ordinances performed in order to attain th highest degree of glory 2) They are subject to God’s judgment of the worthiness of the resipients and the recipients’ choice to accept them.
Sometimes thistranslates to a policy similar to baptize, confirm, endow, and marry everyone, and let God point them out.

When Brigham Young led the Mormons in Utah’s isolation he extended the authority he perceived he had to its maximum reaches. I am fairly certain based on a few disparate historical sources I read years ago that women, at least then, could be sealed to deceased Chruch leaders (and for all I know, he did it to living Church leaders as well). I would expect that in the Churchtemple records Joseph Smith has thousands of wives sealed to him for time and all eternity by proxy after death, mostly women who died unmarried.

This is not something that I can affirm is currently done. I can only affirm that I am fairly certain it was done in the time period I described, and I cannot vouch for how authoritative the source was as I do not specifically recall it, but I do know that at the time I read it I rarely read anything non-LDS at all, and then from authorized LDS sources.

So it is possible that they could create an opportunity for Mother Teresa to accept an eternal marriage performed on her behalf, but whether or not they would is another story altogether. I have no idea how they would deal with Pope John Paul II, or any males who die unmarried for that matter.

In a perfect world, if they had to do anything like that, they would marry them to each other – boy would that be headline, “JPII now Mormon, eternally married to Mother Teresa, St. Faustina, and others” An offensive idea to Cathiolics, I know, but I hope the absurdity of the suggestion puts any controversy onto perspective.
 
So after all it wass possible for the LDS to seal an unmarried woman to a man who was married here on earth. (polygamy). They may have changed that practice so to make it that unmarried people can not go to the highest level at all.
Your right it is absurd, I just wish I could find the doctrine about this becasue I want to know how the robber next to Jesus at the crucifixtion was able to get to “paradise” without these sacraments. Without a sealing or baptism in the temple.
 
*For in the resurrection, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. * Mt 22:30 RSV
 
rock17 said:
So after all it wass possible for the LDS to seal an unmarried woman to a man who was married here on earth. (polygamy). They may have changed that practice so to make it that unmarried people can not go to the highest level at all.
Your right it is absurd, I just wish I could find the doctrine about this becasue I want to know how the robber next to Jesus at the crucifixtion was able to get to “paradise” without these sacraments. Without a sealing or baptism in the temple.
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The Catholic teaching: through the Baptism of Desire.

Mormon teaching :confused::eek:
 
rock17 said:
I would also like to thank everyone who has chimed in, this has been good.
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I agree, it’s been helpful! Thanks to all. We have a Mormon convert (who’s married, with children) in the family and when matters of faith come up at the holiday table I really try to be careful, because we are guests in their home. It helps me to read threads like this one to see how to be charitable and also how to avoid misunderstandings.
 
Jim_Dandy said:
The Catholic teaching: through the Baptism of Desire.

Mormon teaching :confused::eek:
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Exactly the Catholic teaching would be that he was capable of saving himself through the baptism of desire, as there is reconciliation of desire and so forth, but it seems that the mormons believe that salvation is based on someone else performing a ritual for you after you die. And you accepting the ritual.
 
Becuase the likes of Francis of Asisi and Pope JP2 and all the other great holy people need a teenager to be baptised in thier name so they can be with God, because thier own merits they earned on earth where not enough.

I really wonder if the men or women who where not married on earth like the late Pope or any of the saint nuns where married in a Temple after they died. I wonder if there is a way I can find that out.
 
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