Question for LDS "Do you Marry the dead?"

[lax16]

Lax16,

Most of the internet sources are not credible, and merely show a lack of understanding just like the issue of anyone thinking someone years from now will take the data and think the person was an LDS member while living. It shows not the slightest level of understanding about the data.

Not so, Parker! Is this is what you have been told? Well, try it…there is tons of material out there and I am sure you would be able to decipher the good and the bad…you are a very smart guy.
Every time I post an article it is from a credible news source. Actually, it is has taken me a while to learn how to sift through the good and the bad, but it can be done.
To say that all publications, because not written by LDS, are not credible and show a lack of understanding is very self-serving.
Let people read the articles and decide for themselves.

As far as the issue itself, if someone were on a ship and saw a whole group of people in the water, struggling to survive with all their might and perhaps not even seeing the ship, perhaps not even knowing that the ship was in the area and just needed to be looked for,

would the person in the ship be considered honorable and respectful if they just watched and let the people in the group in the water struggle to survive, and just let the ship move on toward its destination with not the slightest thought or consideration about the group of people being left behind–people they rightly love and rightly consider just as important as themselves?

So the Mormon church and its geneological searching members are the “ship” for our salvation?
No, Jesus Christ is - and we don’t need the Mormons to bring us to Him.
That is the point Parker. We are saying we don’t want or need the help of the LDS church for our salvation. We believe in the words of Jesus Christ and for the Jews, their belief in following the commandments of God, for our salvation.

 

[ParkerD]

…They were choice spirits, not wicked men. General Washington and all the men that labored for the purpose were inspired of the Lord. . . .

Everyone of those men that signed the Declaration of Independence, with General Washington, called upon me, as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple at St. George, two consecutive nights, and demanded at my hands that I should go forth and attend to the ordinances of the House of God for them.7

President Benson also added his witness:

Shortly after Spencer W. Kimball became president of the Church, we met together in one of out weekly meetings. We spoke of the sacred records that are in the vaults of the various temples of the Church. … I saw with my own eyes the records of the work that was done for the Founding Fathers of this great nation, beginning with George Washington. **I was deeply moved on that occasion to realize that these great men returned to this promised land by permission of the Lord and had their ordinance work done for them. If they had not been faithful men, if they had not been God-fearing men, would they have come to the elders of Israel to seek their temple blessings? **I think not. The Lord raised them up, sanctioned their work, and proclaimed them “wise men.” Moreover, a president of the Church declared them to be the “best spirits the God of heaven could find on the face of the earth,” and testified that they were “choice spirits” and “inspired of the Lord.”8

What are choice spirits? Is this why you baptize Catholic saints and the Jews, God’s chosen people?

So you actually believe that when we die, instead of meeting God and Jesus and speaking to them about our destiny, we need to come back to earth and plead to a Mormon for our eternal salvation?

Lax16,

Latter-day Saints use the term “choice spirits” usually when talking about the idea of “foreordination”, which means that God planned this world and included in that plan more than just the fact that Jesus Christ would be sent to this world to be our Redeemer and Savior, but also that other spirits would have responsibilities on this earth that were known about and matched the gifts and strengths that those spirits had.

The Founding Fathers being “choice spirits” and “not wicked men” means they had a foreordination and they fulfilled it by doing what their heart led them to do with respect to guiding the constitutional government and seeking the freedom itself that the United States is based on through their instrumentality and the sacrifice of their personal fortunes.

It is not why names are submitted for having Jews or Catholics baptized for the dead. Jews are indeed God’s chosen people, and the Bible has prophecies about their entire history including some that will still be marvelous unfoldings of events in the future. The Bible also says that anyone who becomes a part of the gospel are God’s chosen people.

It is not at all about “eternal salvation”, nor is it about “pleading” by spirits.

You’ve read enough through even just the conversations we’ve had about temple work, that there is such a thing in Latter-day Saint belief called the Celestial Kingdom and Celestial Marriage; those are different than “eternal salvation”. Those provide a glimpse into something that is termed “exaltation” where a faithful husband and a faithful wife will have eternal life together, as a couple, in a union that is eternal and that builds them both.

The Founding Fathers wanting their ordinance work to be done means they wanted such a union for themselves and wanted “exaltation” and also wanted to have the gift of the Holy Ghost and the opportunity of sanctification through the power of the Holy Ghost and through their repentance; they also probably wanted to hold the priesthood so that they could be a part of teaching the gospel to others in the spirit world. It is not forced teaching–it is voluntary on both the part of the teacher and the part of the hearer, and the spirits are very much alive in the sphere in which they live.

There may indeed be an immediate “meeting and greeting” by God and Jesus as a person dies, and a preliminary “judgment” as to where they go and what they do, but then it will be up to them what they do with choices that are offered to them.

 

[ParkerD]

…
So the Mormon church and its geneological searching members are the “ship” for our salvation?
No, Jesus Christ is - and we don’t need the Mormons to bring us to Him.
That is the point Parker. We are saying we don’t want or need the help of the LDS church for our salvation. We believe in the words of Jesus Christ and for the Jews, their belief in following the commandments of God, for our salvation.

Lax16,

Again, it is not about “salvation”. It is about those who want more than “salvation”. If is about having the gift of the Holy Ghost, sanctification, exaltation, eternal life, eternal marriage, things people don’t know about because they weren’t taught about them. You could look at it that the Jews have their own “salvation ship” and also the Catholics, and that would be just fine if it weren’t that there is an opportunity one such as myself knows about and that provides greater joy–even a fullness; so to just move on and say in effect, “God didn’t have them in mind for exaltation or He would have made it so they could know about it without this complicated process of temple work and people having their feelings hurt about their ancestors”–would be to be acting non-compassionately and being very self-centered.

It would be contrary to what the gospel of Jesus Christ teaches about compassion and being other-centered.

 

[lax16]

Lax16,

Latter-day Saints use the term “choice spirits” usually when talking about the idea of “foreordination”, which means that God planned this world and included in that plan more than just the fact that Jesus Christ would be sent to this world to be our Redeemer and Savior, but also that other spirits would have responsibilities on this earth that were known about and matched the gifts and strengths that those spirits had.

So only “choice spirits” are baptized by the LDS? Or everyone?
Please explain “other spirits would have responsibilities…”

The Founding Fathers being “choice spirits” and “not wicked men” means they had a foreordination and they fulfilled it by doing what their heart led them to do with respect to guiding the constitutional government and seeking the freedom itself that the United States is based on through their instrumentality and the sacrifice of their personal fortunes.

Who gave the FF this gift(?) of foreordination - or was it a choice?

It is not why names are submitted for having Jews or Catholics baptized for the dead. Jews are indeed God’s chosen people, and the Bible has prophecies about their entire history including some that will still be marvelous unfoldings of events in the future. The Bible also says that anyone who becomes a part of the gospel are God’s chosen people.

Then why do LDS do it when asked to stop?

It is not at all about “eternal salvation”, nor is it about “pleading” by spirits.

You’ve read enough through even just the conversations we’ve had about temple work, that there is such a thing in Latter-day Saint belief called the Celestial Kingdom and Celestial Marriage; those are different than “eternal salvation”. Those provide a glimpse into something that is termed “exaltation” where a faithful husband and a faithful wife will have eternal life together, as a couple, in a union that is eternal and that builds them both.

Yes, and I don’t get it - it is not in the NT and Jesus did not speak of it.
Besides, our two LDS friends are in the middle of getting divorces. I can assure you they don’t want to be together on earth let alone for all eternity, despite their temple sealing.

The Founding Fathers wanting their ordinance work to be done means they wanted such a union for themselves and wanted “exaltation” and also wanted to have the gift of the Holy Ghost and the opportunity of sanctification through the power of the Holy Ghost and through their repentance; they also probably wanted to hold the priesthood so that they could be a part of teaching the gospel to others in the spirit world. It is not forced teaching–it is voluntary on both the part of the teacher and the part of the hearer, and the spirits are very much alive in the sphere in which they live.

Nothing you have said here is Christian teaching.
Please cite your sources for this…

There may indeed be an immediate “meeting and greeting” by God and Jesus as a person dies, and a preliminary “judgment” as to where they go and what they do, but then it will be up to them what they do with choices that are offered to them.

Please cite your sources for this statement.
thanks!

 

[lax16]

Lax16,

Again, it is not about “salvation”. It is about those who want more than “salvation”. If is about having the gift of the Holy Ghost, sanctification, exaltation, eternal life, eternal marriage, things people don’t know about because they weren’t taught about them. You could look at it that the Jews have their own “salvation ship” and also the Catholics, and that would be just fine if it weren’t that there is an opportunity one such as myself knows about and that provides greater joy–even a fullness; so to just move on and say in effect, “God didn’t have them in mind for exaltation or He would have made it so they could know about it without this complicated process of temple work and people having their feelings hurt about their ancestors”–would be to be acting non-compassionately and being very self-centered.

It would be contrary to what the gospel of Jesus Christ teaches about compassion and being other-centered.

First of all, the LDS I know are not given the option to want more than salvation…they are told from very little (and I know because my two year old was being taught this until I put a stop to it) to be temple worthy.

I have met with missionaries, read plenty of LDS teaching, started reading the BoM…and I don’t believe it. Jesus stayed with His Church and never left it and He didn’t need JS to finish His work. It was already complete.

There is ONE salvation ship - Jesus Christ. He died for all of us. He doesn’t need anyone to perform rituals for salvation. Everything He asks of us is spelled out in His teachings in the New Testament and is a fulfillment of the Old Testament.
Temple rituals (animal sacrifices) are done…over…finished…and never included the rituals Mormons perform every day.
Do Mormons know this? Are they given the choice to reject it? Do they (those doing all this geneological work and proxy) even know that people are asking them not to do this?

The fact you (LDS) believe this is necessary undermines the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ…I will offer mass for you today Parker, and for all the LDS who do not believe that Jesus Christ is all that we need for eternal life.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Lax16,

Again, it is not about “salvation”. It is about those who want more than “salvation”. If is about having the gift of the Holy Ghost, sanctification, exaltation, eternal life, eternal marriage, things people don’t know about because they weren’t taught about them. You could look at it that the Jews have their own “salvation ship” and also the Catholics, and that would be just fine if it weren’t that there is an opportunity one such as myself knows about and that provides greater joy–even a fullness; so to just move on and say in effect, “God didn’t have them in mind for exaltation or He would have made it so they could know about it without this complicated process of temple work and people having their feelings hurt about their ancestors”–would be to be acting non-compassionately and being very self-centered.

It would be contrary to what the gospel of Jesus Christ teaches about compassion and being other-centered.

Oh, it’s about “exaltation” and Mormons generously giving Saint Damien, for example, the opportunity to become a God and rule over his own kingdom and produce spirit children forever more with his multiple goddess wives like Mormon males can? Just think, he wouldn’t have had that opportunity if you Mormons on earth hadn’t given it to him!

Absurd.

 

[campeador]

To Wilford Woodruff, who was serving as president of the St. George LDS temple at the time, so he was open to the communication from spirits because that is the nature of temple work for the deceased–it is a link between the two worlds, and the spirits are very much alive and very much interested in what is going on on this earth.

Wow.

 

[Inishfree]

Lax,

You hit on something very important.

The LDS member has to have the permission of the person, family decendants, etc. while that person is still living. To have a baptism and marriage of the dead.

In my case. The person who put my grandfather’s name on the mormon genology base was only twelve years old when he died. She was Methodist by faith. There is no way. She had his permission while he was still alive. My grandmother suffered from severe dementia before she passed. Again, she would have not been in “valid” condition to give her consent for anything. My relative’s, mormon friends knew this about my granny and still helped with the temple work, whatever it is called, submitting their names anyway.

So in my humble opinion. The LDS should grant my request. Since, permission in both cases, could not be granted.

 

[Inishfree]

First of all, the LDS I know are not given the option to want more than salvation…they are told from very little (and I know because my two year old was being taught this until I put a stop to it) to be temple worthy.

I have met with missionaries, read plenty of LDS teaching, started reading the BoM…and I don’t believe it. Jesus stayed with His Church and never left it and He didn’t need JS to finish His work. It was already complete.

There is ONE salvation ship - Jesus Christ. He died for all of us. He doesn’t need anyone to perform rituals for salvation. Everything He asks of us is spelled out in His teachings in the New Testament and is a fulfillment of the Old Testament.
Temple rituals (animal sacrifices) are done…over…finished…and never included the rituals Mormons perform every day.
Do Mormons know this? Are they given the choice to reject it? Do they (those doing all this geneological work and proxy) even know that people are asking them not to do this?

The fact you (LDS) believe this is necessary undermines the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ…I will offer mass for you today Parker, and for all the LDS who do not believe that Jesus Christ is all that we need for eternal life.

I agree with this. There is one salvation ship for Christians and it’s not through the temple rituals the LDS perform.

I think what bothers me the most is that LDS say “we are Christians.” But, the BoM teaches opposite of what Christians actually believe.

I’ve said this before. I have no problem with anyone else religion. But, I don’t see Muslims saying this and then handing us the Holy Qu’ran. They are honest about what they believe. I respect them for it.

It’s nothing personal towards Parker.

I am angry at the Mormon’s who took advantage of a family member. After, she was diagnosed with clinical depression and also, mental health problems. No one who is Jewish would have done this to her. They would have been her friend for sure. Never her converter.

 

[ParkerD]

So only “choice spirits” are baptized by the LDS? Or everyone?
Please explain “other spirits would have responsibilities…”

Lax16,

The concept of foreordination is implicit in the calling of Jeremiah, wherein he was told “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee…I sanctified thee, and ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.” (1:5) This happened before Jeremiah was born. It is also implicit in the words “hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;” (Acts 17:26) It is implicit in the creation, since the creation involved planning as well as the creating that we read about. It was not an unplanned event.

The coming forth of the nation of the United States of America was not an unplanned event in God’s eternal plan for this earth. Many of those men felt directed by God in what they did, and felt the hand of God in the outcome. This should not be news–it is written about. God planned for when those men would come to the earth and be born, and where–it was not happenstance. A George Washington in history was not a happenstance.

George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, James Madison, were “sent to earth” at a particular time and place, to fulfill God’s purpose for a free land to help the world be a better place. That is what is meant by “foreordination”–that God had a plan for certain people who were going to have certain talents and gifts, and would “hear” the prompting of the Holy Spirit plus their innermost desires and wisdom from life experiences in their life that moved their heart to do something unusual.

So the above explains “other spirits would have responsibilities…”

Who gave the FF this gift(?) of foreordination - or was it a choice?

It was both a gift and a choice. This is consistent with how God accomplishes His work through mortal people–giving them gifts and talents, then letting them choose whether they will use those gifts and talents for improving the world and giving their posterity a greater future.

Then why do LDS do it when asked to stop?

I already answered that. It would be because the LDS view free will choice as a gift from God to each individual, and not the kind of case where a descendant exercises the free will choice in behalf of their ancestor and says in effect, “I have made their choice for them–leave them alone.” It is opening a door that would otherwise not be opened to them because it needed to be something done on this earth, an “earthly ordinance”. It says absolutely nothing about their not being able to make a free will choice–but if the door is vaulted shut by descendants, then that would on the contrary be a denial of their own personal free will choice. (Talking generally but meaning specific ancestors, for example, whose temple work I have submitted to be completed or other LDS members have submitted.)

Yes, and I don’t get it - it is not in the NT and Jesus did not speak of it.
Besides, our two LDS friends are in the middle of getting divorces. I can assure you they don’t want to be together on earth let alone for all eternity, despite their temple sealing.

Some don’t want an eternal marriage, but Jesus confirmed that it was God’s plan for Adam and Eve–just because people struggle with their marriage and some give up does not mean no one should be given an opportunity that should be theirs to decide.

Please cite your sources for this…

1 Peter 3:18-20 and 1 Peter 4:6. For the gospel to be preached, there must needs be some who are sent to do it, which means “priesthood” is involved.

Please cite your sources for this statement.
thanks!

Same sources as above in 1 Peter.

For there to be “spirits in prison” means some kind of judgment was made that sent them there rather than to “paradise”. It is a preliminary kind of judgment, but not the final judgment.

The Savior saying the thief would 'be with Him" also implies a “greeting” by God in the immediate hereafter, in the spirit world, but does not imply that that is the final, resurrected state of the thief.

 

[Inishfree]

Thanks Parker,

You have explained my question too.

 

[campeador]

“Do not defile yourselves by turning to mediums or to those who consult the spirits of the dead. I am the Lord your God.” Leviticus 19:31

“I will also turn against those who commit spiritual prostitution by putting their trust in mediums or in those who consult the spirits of the dead. I will cut them off from the community." Leviticus 20:6

“Men and women among you who act as mediums or who consult the spirits of the dead must be put to death by stoning. They are guilty of a capital offense.” Leviticus 20:27

“Meanwhile, Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned for him. He was buried in Ramah, his hometown. And Saul had banned from the land of Israel all mediums and those who consult the spirits of the dead.” 1 Samuel 28:3

“Are you trying to get me killed?” the woman demanded. “You know that Saul has outlawed all the mediums and all who consult the spirits of the dead. Why are you setting a trap for me?” 1 Samuel 28:9

“Someone may say to you, ‘Let’s ask the mediums and those who consult the spirits of the dead. With their whisperings and mutterings, they will tell us what to do.’ But shouldn’t people ask God for guidance? Should the living seek guidance from the dead?” Isaiah 8:19

“‘The Egyptians will lose heart, and I will confuse their plans. They will plead with their idols for wisdom and call on spirits, mediums, and those who consult the spirits of the dead. I will hand Egypt over to a hard, cruel master. A fierce king will rule them,’ says the Lord, the Lord of Heaven’s Armies.” Isaiah 19:3-4

 

[Inishfree]

Thanks campeador for posting this!

 

[ParkerD]

“Do not defile yourselves by turning to mediums or to those who consult the spirits of the dead. I am the Lord your God.” Leviticus 19:31

“I will also turn against those who commit spiritual prostitution by putting their trust in mediums or in those who consult the spirits of the dead. I will cut them off from the community." Leviticus 20:6

“Men and women among you who act as mediums or who consult the spirits of the dead must be put to death by stoning. They are guilty of a capital offense.” Leviticus 20:27

“Meanwhile, Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned for him. He was buried in Ramah, his hometown. And Saul had banned from the land of Israel all mediums and those who consult the spirits of the dead.” 1 Samuel 28:3

“Are you trying to get me killed?” the woman demanded. “You know that Saul has outlawed all the mediums and all who consult the spirits of the dead. Why are you setting a trap for me?” 1 Samuel 28:9

“Someone may say to you, ‘Let’s ask the mediums and those who consult the spirits of the dead. With their whisperings and mutterings, they will tell us what to do.’ But shouldn’t people ask God for guidance? Should the living seek guidance from the dead?” Isaiah 8:19

“‘The Egyptians will lose heart, and I will confuse their plans. They will plead with their idols for wisdom and call on spirits, mediums, and those who consult the spirits of the dead. I will hand Egypt over to a hard, cruel master. A fierce king will rule them,’ says the Lord, the Lord of Heaven’s Armies.” Isaiah 19:3-4

Campeador,

I assume you have posted those scriptural passages to show that the Founding Fathers could not possibly have expressed their wish to a mortal person.

What those passages show, first, is that there was an awareness in those Old Testament times that the spirits of the dead can communicate in some way, whether it be by departed spirits who are in torment and are bent on deceiving and thwarting the work of the Holy Spirit, whose carefully tuned guidance can be so difficult for people to understand if they are seeking their own motives and interests or if they aren’t familiar with Biblical teachings about needing to first and foremost be keeping the commandments of God and know that their relationship with God is direct, one-to-one, like son to father or daughter to father.

Wilford Woodruff didn’t seek them–they sought him. He was familiar with the Holy Ghost, and could have been prompted by the Holy Ghost to do that temple work, but in this case those spirits were allowed to communicate their desires. It would be totally different if he had explained that he had sought them out as a “medium”. He was prayerful to God, not to them. He was not considering them as some kind of intermediary between him and God.

But you are correct that spirits can deceive those who are not familiar with the guidance of the Holy Ghost, and that allowance by God for them to do that means that people need to not only be careful but know the Bible well, knowing that they absolutely need to be keeping the commandments, be prayerful to God, and be a diligent Bible studier. It would be well in doing that to consider that God may have a message for them that is different than they expected when they pray sincerely about a question they have (if they are sincerely keeping the commandments and have sincerely studied the Bible itself and allowed it to do some individual, heartfelt teaching.

 

[rock17]

I dont know Parker the one from Levitcus 19:31 makes it clear that that God states how
He feels about speaking with the dead and those who do it.

 

[ParkerD]

I dont know Parker the one from Levitcus 19:31 makes it clear that that God states how
He feels about speaking with the dead and those who do it.

Rock17,

“Turning to mediums” means seeking them out and asking them questions, particularly about the future. “Mediums” would involve evil spirits and their deceptions, including “wizards” who would invoke the help of those evil spirits.

“Consult the spirits of the dead” means to pray to them, ask for their guidance, think that they may be more apt to give an answer than God, or that they are an intermediary in God’s behalf. This would definitely be wrong. Again, Wilford Woodruff did not “consult them”, pray to them, ask for their guidance, or think that they were an intermediary in God’s behalf. Wilford Woodruff was not a “medium”, nor did he “turn to a medium (or a wizard”) at all, nor consult the spirits of the dead.

When Peter, James, and John saw the spirits of Moses and Elias, who had died, and heard them talking to the Savior on the Mount of Transfiguration, they did not express that this was a violation of the Mosaic law nor express surprise that such an event could occur, nor did Jesus Himself. (Matthew 17:3, 4)

 

[KathleenGee]

These posts that refer now to our founding fathers…did any of them have slaves and mistresses, pornography??

Our founding fathers were like all other men indeed of salvation.

All this is new ideas that I have never heard referred to before, and it shows how important we not only have the Bible, but we have our Tradition of faith handed down to us, just as the Jewish people had theirs.

The last God event was Pentecost Sunday, and the Holy Spirit has never left Christ’s church.

 

[lax16]

Lax16,

The concept of foreordination is implicit in the calling of Jeremiah, wherein he was told “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee…I sanctified thee, and ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.” (1:5) This happened before Jeremiah was born. It is also implicit in the words “hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;” (Acts 17:26) It is implicit in the creation, since the creation involved planning as well as the creating that we read about. It was not an unplanned event.

The coming forth of the nation of the United States of America was not an unplanned event in God’s eternal plan for this earth. Many of those men felt directed by God in what they did, and felt the hand of God in the outcome. This should not be news–it is written about. God planned for when those men would come to the earth and be born, and where–it was not happenstance. A George Washington in history was not a happenstance.

from the CCC

600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: "In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."395 For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.396

George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, James Madison, were “sent to earth” at a particular time and place, to fulfill God’s purpose for a free land to help the world be a better place. That is what is meant by “foreordination”–that God had a plan for certain people who were going to have certain talents and gifts, and would “hear” the prompting of the Holy Spirit plus their innermost desires and wisdom from life experiences in their life that moved their heart to do something unusual.

Is this why LDS refer to themselves as an American religion?
Mormons didn’t always feel this way about the U.S.A. Their early history is anything but pro-American.
Did anyone check to make sure the guy in St. George who received these messages was of sound mind?

So the above explains “other spirits would have responsibilities…”

Please explain if LDS only baptize those with “choice spirits”.

It was both a gift and a choice. This is consistent with how God accomplishes His work through mortal people–giving them gifts and talents, then letting them choose whether they will use those gifts and talents for improving the world and giving their posterity a greater future.

Free will.

I already answered that. It would be because the LDS view free will choice as a gift from God to each individual, and not the kind of case where a descendant exercises the free will choice in behalf of their ancestor and says in effect, “I have made their choice for them–leave them alone.” It is opening a door that would otherwise not be opened to them because it needed to be something done on this earth, an “earthly ordinance”. It says absolutely nothing about their not being able to make a free will choice–but if the door is vaulted shut by descendants, then that would on the contrary be a denial of their own personal free will choice. (Talking generally but meaning specific ancestors, for example, whose temple work I have submitted to be completed or other LDS members have submitted.)

You don’t see the problem here? The Russian Orthodox, Armenians, Jews, and Catholics have told you guys to stop…and it doesn’t matter…

Some don’t want an eternal marriage, but Jesus confirmed that it was God’s plan for Adam and Eve–just because people struggle with their marriage and some give up does not mean no one should be given an opportunity that should be theirs to decide.

That’s for sure because we don’t need marriage if heaven, Parker and that is what Jesus said.
I am sure our friends will re-marry before the ink is dry on their divorce papers - that is all he has talked about as soon as they split up. I suggested he work on his problems that aided his marriage failure, but he just couldn’t wait to get to the singles ward…

I have come to the conclusion that Mormons worship marriage.

 

[lax16]

These posts that refer now to our founding fathers…did any of them have slaves and mistresses, pornography??

Our founding fathers were like all other men indeed of salvation.

All this is new ideas that I have never heard referred to before, and it shows how important we not only have the Bible, but we have our Tradition of faith handed down to us, just as the Jewish people had theirs.

The last God event was Pentecost Sunday, and the Holy Spirit has never left Christ’s church.

Good questions Kathleen!

I know they were heavy drinkers.

 

[ParkerD]

…
Is this why LDS refer to themselves as an American religion?
Mormons didn’t always feel this way about the U.S.A. Their early history is anything but pro-American.

They have always been pro-American constitution and constitutional rights, and were opposed to being treated as though the constitution did not apply to them or their circumstances.

Did anyone check to make sure the guy in St. George who received these messages was of sound mind?

He was a very capable leader and a worker with great tenacity to get things done.

Please explain if LDS only baptize those with “choice spirits”.

No–the point was that those Founding Fathers had completed what Heavenly Father needed them to do, using their talents and abilities even though they could disagree with each other yet make compromises that led to an inspired constitution and led to a United States that was free from Great Britain. “Choice spirits” are those who take the talents God has given them, and expand on them and bless the world through those talents.

The LDS members are asked to seek after all their kindred dead. Many LDS are descended from the tribe of Ephraim, thus fulfilling prophecies in Ezekiel and Hosea–so their ancestors would be considered also of the tribe of Ephraim, and some of those waiting are no doubt “choice spirits” in that they were leaders among their associates on earth in community matters, in doing good among their fellows, and in upholding high values.

You don’t see the problem here? The Russian Orthodox, Armenians, Jews, and Catholics have told you guys to stop…and it doesn’t matter…

Since those whose names are submitted are deceased, it sounds more like a case of someone being offended by the idea that an ancestor could actually gain new information and make a choice for themselves through their free will, that the descendant doesn’t want them to make and is offended to think that they might actually gain new information.

Thus, the offense is about denying them their own personal free will choice–which is contrary to the gospel that is a gospel of free will choice. A higher level of compassion would not deny free will choice to anyone, living or dead.

That’s for sure because we don’t need marriage if heaven, Parker and that is what Jesus said.

He said that about the Sadducees–sure enough. It applies to anyone who chooses to have time only marriage by their free will choice, or chooses not to believe in the resurrection at all like the Sadducees.

I have come to the conclusion that Mormons worship marriage.

Marriage and families are certainly considered very important by Latter-day Saints. I wouldn’t call that “worshiping marriage”, but there certainly is a need for good marriages in the world today, and strong families with both parents in the home.