Question for LDS folks.

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Mormons use the Books of Wisdom and Proverbs…they do not use the Catholic bibles, but those who use these books are former Catholics.

They mistaken ‘Wisdom’ as someone who lived before their mortal existence.

Wisdom is actually the Person of the Holy Spirit, the greatest of all gifts. Reading the passages pointed out to me by a former Catholic, it is very evident the help of Wisdom is to help us discern God’s will and our livelihood by utilizing the gifts of the Holy Spirit, including Prudence and Counsel and Understanding among others.
 
Tmaque said:
I disagree. We’re talking about a development of doctrine here toward reason. It’s not fully defined or thought out, but it’s a step in the right direction. Here’s the important part of the article:

"The second way: The more common contemporary LDS belief about intelligence is that each person, including God, exists eternally as an individual entity. This version of intelligence is also finitistic: the existence of other eternal entities, both personal entities (intelligences) and impersonal ones (whatever basic physical entities there are), puts limits on God that we would not find in classical theism.

But unlike the older understanding of intelligence, this contemporary view doesn’t require that some force have brought God into existence. It allows that he has eternally been God. It doesn’t raise the question to which the 19th century gave answers, such as Lorenzo Snow’s, so one can believe in the eternality of intelligences without believing the claims posited in response to the older way of explaining them.

On the second view it is still possible that, by God’s grace, human beings may be brought to be as he is, brought to be like God—though never to be his equal. But that belief is more like the traditional doctrine of theosis and doesn’t require speculation about God previously existing as a mortal."

The doctrine is still very flawed but it is one step closer to the truth. I’ll celebrate anything that brings my family members even a little closer to truth. My question, and the ONLY reason I posted on here at all was to see if Mormons agree with the statement made by the professor that this new view is the most common in contemporary Mormonism.
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I don’t think this changes anything. The very idea that co-eternal intelligences (along with co-eternal matter) exist contradicts the Christian doctrine that God is omnipotent. From the Mormon view God is dependent upon “intelligences” and “eternal matter” in order to fashion the universe and all creatures. So he doesn’t really create any more than we create from existing substances, he’s just learned to do it on a grander scale. This view completely diminishes God’s power, glory and majesty. It is the result of making God in man’s image and likeness.
 
SteveVH said:
I don’t think this changes anything. The very idea that co-eternal intelligences (along with co-eternal matter) exist contradicts the Christian doctrine that God is omnipotent. From the Mormon view God is dependent upon “intelligences” and “eternal matter” in order to fashion the universe and all creatures. So he doesn’t really create any more than we create from existing substances, he’s just learned to do it on a grander scale. This view completely diminishes God’s power, glory and majesty. It is the result of making God in man’s image and likeness.
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Amen, Steve. “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth…” By definition, creation is ex nihilo. If LDS doctrine is true, then the statement of Genesis is meaningless, because there already would have been many heavens and many earths.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
Amen, Steve. “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth…” By definition, creation is ex nihilo. If LDS doctrine is true, then the statement of Genesis is meaningless, because there already would have been many heavens and many earths.
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Hey Gaelic. Yeah, it makes me wonder what part of “God said let there be light, and there was light” they don’t understand. Too bad we can’t get some LDS folks to explain this to us.
 
SteveVH said:
Hey Gaelic. Yeah, it makes me wonder what part of “God said let there be light, and there was light” they don’t understand. Too bad we can’t get some LDS folks to explain this to us.
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Well…it means light on THIS earth…Adam and Jesus came down and created everything. Then Adam came with one of his wives, according to BY, from another planet and brought seeds and stuff and they made this planet pretty.
 
TexanKnight said:
Well…it means light on THIS earth…Adam and Jesus came down and created everything. Then Adam came with one of his wives, according to BY, from another planet and brought seeds and stuff and they made this planet pretty.
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:doh2: Okay. It makes perfect sense now, thank you. :rolleyes:
 
Tmaque said:
I’d like the opinion of LDS on this board as to whether they hold to the traditional LDS belief that God was once a man, or if they hold to the more modern LDS notion that God had no beginning as explained by this BYU professor:

patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Mormon-Understanding-of-Persons-and-God-James-Faulconer-08-18-2011.html

Thanks for not commenting if you’re not LDS. This is a question for active LDS folks.
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This is the musings of one man. It stands and falls on it’s own merits.
 
The question that was asked, and non-LDS were asked to not comment, was did the teachings of that man represent new doctrine.

They do not, it’s just his writing. I imaging if I came across a Catholic professor speculating about doctrine it would be the same.

But to answer your question, Jesus, while walking the earth with a mortal body, said he could do nothing that he had not seen the Father do, and I believe him.
 
Outerspace said:
The question that was asked, and non-LDS were asked to not comment, was did the teachings of that man represent new doctrine.

They do not, it’s just his writing. I imaging if I came across a Catholic professor speculating about doctrine it would be the same.

But to answer your question, Jesus, while walking the earth with a mortal body, said he could do nothing that he had not seen the Father do, and I believe him.
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I am sure you do.

That is one of the things that led me out of the LDS teach: the false teaching that God was once a sinful man.
 
Outerspace said:
The question that was asked, and non-LDS were asked to not comment, was did the teachings of that man represent new doctrine.

They do not, it’s just his writing. I imaging if I came across a Catholic professor speculating about doctrine it would be the same.

But to answer your question, Jesus, while walking the earth with a mortal body, said he could do nothing that he had not seen the Father do, and I believe him.
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Welcome Outerspace - the problem is, there aren’t any LDS posters commenting on any of the LDS threads for some reason. Glad you are here!
 
Thanks for that.

I stumbled on this forum very accidentally. Tbh and I don’t mean to be an ungracious guest but it seems the LDS are quite outnumbered and treated rather aggressively at times from the threads I’ve read so far, so I don’t know if it will be worth it over time, we’ll see what happens.
 
Outerspace said:
Thanks for that.

I stumbled on this forum very accidentally. Tbh and I don’t mean to be an ungracious guest but it seems the LDS are quite outnumbered and treated rather aggressively at times from the threads I’ve read so far, so I don’t know if it will be worth it over time, we’ll see what happens.
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There used to be a couple of regular LDS posters that would answer lots of questions. Now it seems more of a come and go…

I hope you stick around! 👍
 
Outerspace said:
Thanks for that.

I stumbled on this forum very accidentally. Tbh and I don’t mean to be an ungracious guest but it seems the LDS are quite outnumbered and treated rather aggressively at times from the threads I’ve read so far, so I don’t know if it will be worth it over time, we’ll see what happens.
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There have been a few very aggressive Mormons here, too.

Do not let that get you down. We debate very strongly, but I do not know any of us who are bad people.

It is like in court: my opposing counsel and I can go after each other like enemies during a trial, then grab dinner after trial and laugh about the battle.
 
Well among my concerns is moderation. A lot of times in forum like this (not limited to Catholics) moderation can be one sided. I see that some Mormons were banned.

So if you’re already going one on four and you’re arguing with handcuffs because you don’t want to get moderated while your opposition is high fiving each other unencumbered, it’s not worthwhile. I think we’ve all been there.

Not to say that’s what has happened, I’m brand new, but that’s where I’m coming from. I give as good as I get, I can be aggressive or mild, I generally match whatever the other side does, I just want a level playing field.
 
Outerspace said:
Well among my concerns is moderation. A lot of times in forum like this (not limited to Catholics) moderation can be one sided. I see that some Mormons were banned.

So if you’re already going one on four and you’re arguing with handcuffs because you don’t want to get moderated while your opposition is high fiving each other unencumbered, it’s not worthwhile. I think we’ve all been there.

Not to say that’s what has happened, I’m brand new, but that’s where I’m coming from. I give as good as I get, I can be aggressive or mild, I generally match whatever the other side does, I just want a level playing field.
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Many Mormons have been banned for proselytizing.
 
Outerspace said:
The question that was asked, and non-LDS were asked to not comment, was did the teachings of that man represent new doctrine.
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Welcome to CAF!!! I look forward to your comments.

Since there aren’t that many Mormons who post, ex-Mormon Catholics will post in threads about the LDS. I do the same in Protestant threads.
 
Outerspace said:
Very well. I guess I won’t do that. 🙂

I just hope I don’t get into trouble till I learn the ropes.
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Be sure to read the forum rules. It’s alright to debate. Don’t make personal attacks. Always remember this is a Catholic forum so don’t try to convert us.

There are a few Mormons who have been members for years. Look at their posts and see how they interact with us. You can be one of them as well.
 
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