Question for LDS folks.

[mtolympus]

Thank you. You have made my point exactly. It really doesn’t change anything of substance in LDS theology.

Your welcome! I read the article and don’t agree with the authors premise that was stated in the original question. I agree with you that nothing of substance has changed in LDS theology.

 

[RebeccaJ]

“The kingdom of God is within you” that to me would suggest that there are times when as individuals we must confront our beliefs and explore them for ourselves.

Jesus is telling the pharises that the kingdom of God is among them. He is speaking of Himself, not instructing people to make things up as they go along.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hello mtolympus -

The OP asked if you (an LDS person) believes God was once a man…or not.
What is your answer to this question?

I’m interested in the answer to your excellent question.

 

[mtolympus]

Hello mtolympus -

The OP asked if you (an LDS person) believes God was once a man…or not.
What is your answer to this question?

Hello lax16,

That is not what he asked. He asked an either/or question.

I believe that God is eternal with no beginning and no end. I also believe that man is eternal without beginning or end. However, this is not a “more modern LDS notion” as implied in the question.

“Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.” (D&C 93:29)

 

[TexanKnight]

Hello lax16,

That is not what he asked. He asked an either/or question.

I believe that God is eternal with no beginning and no end. I also believe that man is eternal without beginning or end. However, this is not a “more modern LDS notion” as implied in the question.

“Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.” (D&C 93:29)

another dodge.

Joseph Smith taught that God was once a man just like us. Do you believe that or not?

 

[lax16]

Hello lax16,

That is not what he asked. He asked an either/or question.

I believe that God is eternal with no beginning and no end. I also believe that man is eternal without beginning or end. However, this is not a “more modern LDS notion” as implied in the question.

“Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.” (D&C 93:29)

hi myolympus - The OP asked: “I’d like the opinion of LDS on this board as to whether they hold to the traditional LDS belief that God was once a man” and I added “or not.”

Again, I am asking if you believe that God was once a man?

thanks!

 

[mtolympus]

hi myolympus - The OP asked: “I’d like the opinion of LDS on this board as to whether they hold to the traditional LDS belief that God was once a man” and I added “or not.”

Again, I am asking if you believe that God was once a man?

thanks!

Hi Lax16- Thank you for your courtesy.

Yes, I believe in the law of eternal progression as taught by Joseph Smith. I could not answer the original question, because if I said yes, it would imply that I did not believe God is eternal. Since this is recorded in the Doctrine & Covenants, if I had to pick one or the other this is the one I would choose. I believe that God is eternal with no beginning and no end. I also believe that man is eternal without beginning or end.

“Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.” (D&C 93:29)

Now, can you answer a question for me?

Do you believe that 3 persons can be one God if they are of the same substance?

 

[KathleenGee]

Mtolympus…

You are imposing your understanding of human personhood onto God.

“I Am Who Am” explains His nature…always is…God of Love…Muslims believe in two personhood of one God…Allah and His Spirit.

You have your intent, your free will…but it does not have occupied space of its own. Your intent, your free will is within your being…but you have a body, you have senses.

I would get a synopsis of St. Thomas Aquinas’ ‘Summa Theologica’, regarding his first book on ‘God’. To read the Summa directly was for myself impossible without a Dominican friar and classmates to discuss and explain more fine points.

You cannot compare God to man. Two separate entities.

Christ had two natures, human and divine and two wills…but He always submitted to the one will of the Heavenly Father and the Holy Spirit is the life of God that emanates and completes the life within us that all creation has.

God wills and we exist. Our carnate nature is of Christ through Whom the universe was made and bestowed with life of the Holy Spirit, these functions or persons the essence of the One True God.

You can create a child with God Who alone will give it life and make it grow.

 

[TexanKnight]

Hi Lax16- Thank you for your courtesy.

Yes, I believe in the law of eternal progression as taught by Joseph Smith. I could not answer the original question, because if I said yes, it would imply that I did not believe God is eternal. Since this is recorded in the Doctrine & Covenants, if I had to pick one or the other this is the one I would choose. I believe that God is eternal with no beginning and no end. I also believe that man is eternal without beginning or end.

“Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.” (D&C 93:29)

Now, can you answer a question for me?

Do you believe that 3 persons can be one God if they are of the same substance?

I still feel as if you are dodging.

This is a simple yes or no question

Do you believe God used to be a man like us?

 

[lax16]

Hi Lax16- Thank you for your courtesy.

You bet!

Yes, I believe in the law of eternal progression as taught by Joseph Smith. I could not answer the original question, because if I said yes, it would imply that I did not believe God is eternal. Since this is recorded in the Doctrine & Covenants, if I had to pick one or the other this is the one I would choose. I believe that God is eternal with no beginning and no end. I also believe that man is eternal without beginning or end.

If God is eternal and yet He had parents, how could He have no beginning and no end?

“Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.” (D&C 93:29)

Does this come from any other source other than the revelations of Joseph Smith?

Now, can you answer a question for me?

Do you believe that 3 persons can be one God if they are of the same substance?

As stated in the Athanasian Creed: the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God and yet there not three Gods but one God.
They are distinct but all together in one God.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this difficult concept very well:

The dogma of the Holy Trinity

253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”.83 **The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: **"The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 “Father”, “Son”, “Holy Spirit” are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."91

It seems that the BoM has a more traditional view of the Trinity than current LDS teaching- why is that?
For example, Alma 11:44, Mosiah 15:5-7, and 2 Nephi 31:21.
Also, in The Testimony of Three Witnesses at the beginning of the BoM, it says: “And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.”

 

[twopekinguys]

You bet!

If God is eternal and yet He had parents, how could He have no beginning and no end?

Does this come from any other source other than the revelations of Joseph Smith?

As stated in the Athanasian Creed: the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God and yet there not three Gods but one God.
They are distinct but all together in one God.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this difficult concept very well:

The dogma of the Holy Trinity

253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”.83 **The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: **"The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 “Father”, “Son”, “Holy Spirit” are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."91

It seems that the BoM has a more traditional view of the Trinity than current LDS teaching- why is that?
For example, Alma 11:44, Mosiah 15:5-7, and 2 Nephi 31:21.
Also, in The Testimony of Three Witnesses at the beginning of the BoM, it says: “And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.”

 

[Porknpie]

 

[SteveVH]

:coffeeread:

 

[bryce33]

I’m LDS and my belief is that God was once a man based on my understanding of scripture, ancient prophets, and modern prophets, including the first presidency of the church, and that we are created in His image.I feel that the specifics of what that means it outside the scope of what we need to understand pertaining to our salvation, and that it is pointless to dwell on it without more context. When we die we’ll figure it out either way and I imagine most of this stuff will be revealed in time as God sees fit, if He feels it matters.

 

[TexanKnight]

I’m LDS and my belief is that God was once a man based on my understanding of scripture, ancient prophets, and modern prophets, including the first presidency of the church, and that we are created in His image.I feel that the specifics of what that means it outside the scope of what we need to understand pertaining to our salvation, and that it is pointless to dwell on it without more context. When we die we’ll figure it out either way and I imagine most of this stuff will be revealed in time as God sees fit, if He feels it matters.

That might work if God was not clear that He was the Alpha and the Omega. He was never a man who became, as Joseph taught, a god.

Nor are there, as the lds church teaches, many gods. God is also clear about that.

The idea that He was once a sinful man is a horrible, demeaning teaching.

but at least we finally got a direct answer. For that, I thank you

 

[bryce33]

No sweat, I could tell you were really dying to hear it.

Let me ask you this, do you know everything there is to know about being Catholic, or do you know everything there is to know about God?

What made you an expert on God? Do you get off on telling people how wrong they are? Do you really know what you say you know? This thread should have ended a zillion comments ago with who knows and who cares. Whatever was meant by those who taught the whole God was once a man bit died with them and without more context on the matter it’s a relatively big unknown and not worth worrying about. If that’s what people sit and concern themselves with then they’ve missed the whole point of the gospel.

 

[lax16]

Whatever was meant by those who taught the whole God was once a man bit died with them and without more context on the matter it’s a relatively big unknown and not worth worrying about. If that’s what people sit and concern themselves with then they’ve missed the whole point of the gospel.

Really? What your prophet said doesn’t matter because he is dead? Aren’t Joseph Smith and his revelations the cornerstones of your faith?

I get the feeling that the younger Mormons are not going to defend the teachings of JS like they have in the past. Do you agree?

If you are not going to stand by the teachings of Joseph Smith then why be Mormon?

 

[lax16]

I’m LDS and my belief is that God was once a man based on my understanding of scripture, ancient prophets, and modern prophets, including the first presidency of the church, and that we are created in His image.I feel that the specifics of what that means it outside the scope of what we need to understand pertaining to our salvation, and that it is pointless to dwell on it without more context. When we die we’ll figure it out either way and I imagine most of this stuff will be revealed in time as God sees fit, if He feels it matters.

hi bryce - Thank you for your reply.

Please cite the scripture, ancient/modern prophets, and LDS prophets that help you form your belief that God was once a man.

thanks!

 

[TexanKnight]

No sweat, I could tell you were really dying to hear it.

Dying? Hardly. I stopped dying the minute I left the LDS Church. I was, however, anxious to see if a Mormon could answer a direct question

Let me ask you this, do you know everything there is to know about being Catholic,

Everything? I doubt everything. The Catholic Church has been around a LOT longer than the 180 years since Joseph copied peoples’ works to write a book about people no one can find who lives in a land no one can place.

or do you know everything there is to know about God?

Again, no. I DO know He is the Alpha and Omega and the ONLY God and he was not, as your leader claimed…a sinful man who became a god. Will that work for you?

What made you an expert on God?

Just because I do not make up heresy about God like joseph did does not mean I claim to be an expert. What you are doing is, alas, a very common tactic: when faced with reality you cannot defeat, you get defensive and attack the person who made it so. Relax. It is truly not your fault. I fell for the LDS stuff, too once.

Do you get off on telling people how wrong they are?

Get off? Odd term from a guy who follows a man known for his sexual indiscretions…but no, I do not “get off”. I do, however, follow God who says it is up to us to correct heresy.

Do you really know what you say you know?

Yes

This thread should have ended a zillion comments ago with who knows and who cares.

But people DO care. Heresy makes us care. And if you want to follow a guy who claims god used to be a sinful man, then you will get questioned. And if it bothers you that people care, I suggest a debate board is a strange place to hang out.

Whatever was meant by those who taught the whole God was once a man bit died with them and without more context on the matter it’s a relatively big unknown and not worth worrying about.

Not true. Joseph, your prophet who claimed he did more than even Jesus, taught it. Other alleged prophets have also taught it. It is LDS doctrine.

If that’s what people sit and concern themselves with then they’ve missed the whole point of the gospel.

Blame your leaders and their plethora of off teachings you simply can’t run from

 

[bryce33]

It is funny that people care so much, you say you know but you don’t know, you might have faith in your beliefs and have found something that resonates with you, but you don’t know. Did you have an angel come down and spell it all out for you? You missed the point, it’s all subjective, because you don’t know. I don’t know, I’m not going to sit and tell you who’s right and who’s wrong, it’s funny when people think that’s okay as if it makes them better somehow, faith is what it is, it’s not my place to judge, it’s not your place to judge. Why do people care so much? Why do you care? I don’t care what you believe in, I think it’s awesome that you have your faith. I don’t sit and waste time casting judgements on other faiths, I just find it interesting that people like you do and got to wonder for what purpose, how could that possibly make your life any better? It’s crazy man, it makes no sense.