Question for LDS folks.

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i do not know whether gazelam is writing official LDS doctrine when he writes, " I do believe I existed from the beginning with you and God the Father and everyone else."

but it does make it seem that mormons believe that they are not creatures.
Correct, they believe themselves to be of the same nature as God, and are themselves, gods in the making. This life is a step on the progression to becoming a god.
i am unsure how the LDS reconciles gaszelam’s statement with genesis where it is written, “in the beginning, God created …”.
They believe the translation is wrong, and should read “God made”. Their belief then goes from there, to “the Gods” made everything from existing material. ie, there is material existing that “the Gods” did not make, but used to create.
 
Well I believe in Harry Potter so will I one day become a wizard too? Or maybe ill become a dragonslayer or a jedi 😃
 
rebecca j,

does that mean that mormons believe God is NOT infinite?

is not that which is infinite greate than that which is not?

how would the LDS answer these two questions.

if you are correct, it would seem that the LDS would answer my two earlier questions, 1) did God create the universe and 2) did God create time with a resounding NO to both.

i certainly respect your (name removed by moderator)ut, but it would be enlightening if an actual adherent of the LDS would answer these questions.
 
rebecca j,

does that mean that mormons believe God is NOT infinite?

is not that which is infinite greate than that which is not?

how would the LDS answer these two questions.

if you are correct, it would seem that the LDS would answer my two earlier questions, 1) did God create the universe and 2) did God create time with a resounding NO to both.

i certainly respect your (name removed by moderator)ut, but it would be enlightening if an actual adherent of the LDS would answer these questions.
Eddie, Rebecca was in fact a mormon at one time as well as many of us were (I was only mormon for a short time) so she will be able to answer your questions with truth. She is an expert in my book!
 
rebecca j,

does that mean that mormons believe God is NOT infinite?
LDS believe God is infinite, but they use a different definition of “infinite” than Christians do. They themselves are infinite, believing they are created from something they call “intelligence”, that has no beginning. Their God is made of the same stuff.
is not that which is infinite greate than that which is not?
They put “greater” in terms of their belief in progression to godhood. God is greater than they because God is further along in his progression. One cannot catch up to, or surpass their God, ever, so their God is always greater than they.
how would the LDS answer these two questions.
if you are correct, it would seem that the LDS would answer my two earlier questions, 1) did God create the universe and 2) did God create time with a resounding NO to both.
  1. God created this universe, from existing matter.
  2. Their God did not create time, he exists in it. They do not believe that God transcends creation.
i certainly respect your (name removed by moderator)ut, but it would be enlightening if an actual adherent of the LDS would answer these questions.
I’ve given the basic understanding, that as far as I know all LDS would agree to. From the basic understanding individual LDS go into speculation, which won’t be uniform across all believers.
 
thanks rebeccaj,

i guess i prefer the Catholic concept of an omnipotent, unlimited and omniscient God that brought all things in to being from nothing; to the mormon version of a dependent, limited god that can not create from nothing; if only because the Roman Catholic definition of God recognizes a being greater and more worthy of my love and devotion than the being recognized as god by mormons. i do not intend to quibble about interpretations of Sacred Scripture. if mormons see Sacred Scripture as limiting the nature of their god, i have no idea of how to dissuade them from such an interpretation.

my earlier comment about seeking LDS answers was in no way meant to disprove of your (name removed by moderator)uts. also, i did not realize you were a Roman Catholic convert from the LDS.
 
rebecca j,

does that mean that mormons believe God is NOT infinite?

The being that is the LDS god is infinite only to the extent that the matter existed. The LDS god was once a sinful man. He was not always god. He became god. Likewise, you may become a god. As an LDS “prophet” once stated “as man is, God once was, as God is, man may become.”

how would the LDS answer these two questions.

if you are correct, it would seem that the LDS would answer my two earlier questions, 1) did God create the universe and 2) did God create time with a resounding NO to both.

In their view, God did NOT create the Earth. God sent Jesus and Michael, the Archangel (who later became Adam…who then Brigham Young said was our God) to create the earth. Keep in mind, their god had a god, who had a god who had a god, etc. It gets confusing.

i certainly respect your (name removed by moderator)ut, but it would be enlightening if an actual adherent of the LDS would answer these questions.

The LDS answer would be the current doctrine. That could be almost anything by now.
 
A regression of gods is obvious to me, in the Mormon frame. However, I’ve conversed with individual Mormons who reject the idea outright. Most LDS I’ve interacted with will just say they don’t know, and don’t worry about it. They have a mind-frame that is concerned with their progression to godhood, which is contingent on events, some divine others not, that happen to them and for them. In this approach, regression of gods, or not, does not impact their progression to godhood, or what is believed about salvation.

They reject the Trinity because a God who transcends creation, who is not the same nature as themselves, impacts what they believe about themselves and their purpose. I see it as a utilitarian view of self (and life), which Mormons will tell you they find comforting.
 
thanks rebeccaj,

i guess i prefer the Catholic concept of an omnipotent, unlimited and omniscient God that brought all things in to being from nothing; to the mormon version of a dependent, limited god that can not create from nothing; if only because the Roman Catholic definition of God recognizes a being greater and more worthy of my love and devotion than the being recognized as god by mormons. i do not intend to quibble about interpretations of Sacred Scripture. if mormons see Sacred Scripture as limiting the nature of their god, i have no idea of how to dissuade them from such an interpretation.

my earlier comment about seeking LDS answers was in no way meant to disprove of your (name removed by moderator)uts. also, i did not realize you were a Roman Catholic convert from the LDS.
No worries, I am not offended by people wanting (name removed by moderator)ut from someone besides myself. I was raised LDS, left for atheism, converted to Catholicism from atheism.

What you say here, “if only because the Roman Catholic definition of God recognizes a being greater and more worthy of my love and devotion than the being recognized as god by mormons” impacted my understanding of God and my subsequent atheism. God was just “some guy”, and all the men in my life, as a Mormon, believed they were gods in the making. A strong hierarchy exists in Mormonism, that women are subordinate to, because men are almost-gods. That’s a whole other topic, but the idea that God transcends Mormon men with their magically powerful priesthood, was a new idea for me in my atheism. A Catholic said to me, “God is love.”, and meant it as describing who/what God is. I found that endlessly intriguing, and followed God’s love to Christ.
 
No worries, I am not offended by people wanting (name removed by moderator)ut from someone besides myself. I was raised LDS, left for atheism, converted to Catholicism from atheism.

What you say here, “if only because the Roman Catholic definition of God recognizes a being greater and more worthy of my love and devotion than the being recognized as god by mormons” impacted my understanding of God and my subsequent atheism. God was just “some guy”, and all the men in my life, as a Mormon, believed they were gods in the making. A strong hierarchy exists in Mormonism, that women are subordinate to, because men are almost-gods. That’s a whole other topic, but the idea that God transcends Mormon men with their magically powerful priesthood, was a new idea for me in my atheism. A Catholic said to me, “God is love.”, and meant it as describing who/what God is. I found that endlessly intriguing, and followed God’s love to Christ.
I left LDS, wandered around for 12 years and converted to Catholicism.

Oddly, I consider my two years as a Mormon Missionary some of the greatest times of my life…
 
I left LDS, wandered around for 12 years and converted to Catholicism.

Oddly, I consider my two years as a Mormon Missionary some of the greatest times of my life…
I have good memories of my childhood Mormon community. Good times. I had romantic notions of a mission when I was very young, coming from those primary indoctrinations of “I hope they call me on a mission”. It was in my teens I figured out those romantic notions were mainly aimed at the boys my age. My “hope” should have been to be worthy of a returned missionary. I didn’t share that hope, I saw it is a stifling cage.

“Testimony” is not something I ever had, no matter how much I wished I did. I just didn’t believe what I was being taught, including what Mormons were teaching about God.
 
I have good memories of my childhood Mormon community. Good times. I had romantic notions of a mission when I was very young, coming from those primary indoctrinations of “I hope they call me on a mission”. It was in my teens I figured out those romantic notions were mainly aimed at the boys my age. My “hope” should have been to be worthy of a returned missionary. I didn’t share that hope, I saw it is a stifling cage.

“Testimony” is not something I ever had, no matter how much I wished I did. I just didn’t believe what I was being taught, including what Mormons were teaching about God.
Sad thing is…I DID have one…or at least I thought I did.

I loved the idea that Jesus came here. I loved that they did not smoke or drink…because neither had I…ever…still have never.

But when i started to study…it all unraveled
 
Sad thing is…I DID have one…or at least I thought I did.

I loved the idea that Jesus came here. I loved that they did not smoke or drink…because neither had I…ever…still have never.

But when i started to study…it all unraveled
I didn’t give it a thought for a good 15 years or so. Then a sibling who also was not an active Mormon, went back to Mormonism, married in a temple, the whole bit. She didn’t say a word about it, just one day one of my family told me she had been sealed in a temple. I was baffled.

By then the internet was around, and had been around for a few years. I had never looked up anything Mormon, but decided to search for why people would return to Mormonism. I studied Mormonism again, trying to understand why someone would go back, but all it did was confirm for me that it was good thing I left. Really, I am so happy to have never gone through a Mormon temple ceremony.

I went through a period then where I saw all of my Mormon relatives as the most gullible and stupidest people on the planet. I mean, they believe this stuff that is obviously made up! I had to let that idea about Mormons go, otherwise I can’t be around my family.

I will never understand why anyone would be a Mormon who has studied it, even for a little while. 🤷
 
The question that always comes to my mind is this. What is your idea of “omnipotence”? It seems to me that the Mormon idea of a pre-mortal existence completely contradicts the idea that God is “all-powerful”. It makes God dependent upon co-existing beings and matter in order to “create”. If God is dependent upon anything then he is not omnipotent.

I have said more than once that this idea (pre-mortal existence) influences all other Mormon thought. The most shocking consequence of one having this belief was a Mormon (on lds.net) who I witnessed defending abortion on the premise that the one who was aborted had chosen to come to earth and be aborted. In other words, it was meant to be. I realize this is an extreme example but it shows the extent to which this entire proposition can affect one’s perception of the world and our purpose in being here.
Here is an LDS view of God’s omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence.

eom.byu.edu/index.php/Omnipotent_God;_Omnipresence_of_God;_Omniscience_of_God

Most Latter-day Saints would not be in agreement with the LDS poster you referenced.
 
I didn’t give it a thought for a good 15 years or so. Then a sibling who also was not an active Mormon, went back to Mormonism, married in a temple, the whole bit. She didn’t say a word about it, just one day one of my family told me she had been sealed in a temple. I was baffled.

By then the internet was around, and had been around for a few years. I had never looked up anything Mormon, but decided to search for why people would return to Mormonism. I studied Mormonism again, trying to understand why someone would go back, but all it did was confirm for me that it was good thing I left. Really, I am so happy to have never gone through a Mormon temple ceremony.

I went through a period then where I saw all of my Mormon relatives as the most gullible and stupidest people on the planet. I mean, they believe this stuff that is obviously made up! I had to let that idea about Mormons go, otherwise I can’t be around my family.

I will never understand why anyone would be a Mormon who has studied it, even for a little while. 🤷
Rebecca, how do Mormons reconcile the complete absence of Mormon theology in the early church?
 
Gazelam, with all due respect, would you mind just answering this in your own words, with your own thoughts. I can’t have a conversation with an article. Thanks.
I think he trying to show us what his “church” teaches and not what he thinks. But yes Steve, its pretty annoying that all he can do is post links that amount to, well, use your imagination 🙂
 
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