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TexanKnight
Guest
If I can ever help, in any way, please let me know.
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ephesians4
Guest
This is interesting to read, thank you for sharing your experience. I know of a man who truly has love to dedicate to our Lord, but is lost in LDS, and I pray he will find his way to the truth and be the Christian he so obviously yearns (did he but know it) to be.
I understand the process must be very difficult - I hope it doesn’t seem unseemly, but ultimately I am happy for you having come through it successfully - as I would be for a mother and baby getting through childbirth successfully
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TexanKnight
Guest
thank youThis is interesting to read, thank you for sharing your experience. I know of a man who truly has love to dedicate to our Lord, but is lost in LDS, and I pray he will find his way to the truth and be the Christian he so obviously yearns (did he but know it) to be.
I understand the process must be very difficult - I hope it doesn’t seem unseemly, but ultimately I am happy for you having come through it successfully - as I would be for a mother and baby getting through childbirth successfully
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Sunstone
Guest
I am in the middle of all of this. Please pray for me, and for my wife.
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TexanKnight
Guest
I absolutely will. And if you want to talk, let me know
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SteveVH
Guest
You have my prayers as well and I would encourage you to talk with TK, Rebecca, Marie and many other ex-Mormons here. They are holy and knowledgeble people.
God bless.
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truthseeker32
Guest
My wife and I are currently going through the same thing! You have my prayers, friend. We still need to chat about our histories. Send me a PM if you like.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Seeing these remarks, I really wonder if the Mormon harrassment and abuse towards people leaving is something that should be brought out into civil light.
It is looking to me that their civil rights here in the USA to live by their own choices and free from harrassment and abuse are being violated to some degree.
Legally can anything be done to stop the mistreatment, etc., of those wanting to get out of this?
It is looking to me that their civil rights here in the USA to live by their own choices and free from harrassment and abuse are being violated to some degree.
Legally can anything be done to stop the mistreatment, etc., of those wanting to get out of this?
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kimg901
Guest
It probably wouldnt work in Utah. Hell, if the mormon church can violate our rights to freedom of speech on their land then…
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Anna_Scott
Guest
Kathleen,
Yes, it can be stopped. Will explain below.
truthseeker32 & Sunstone,
You may both already know this; We are protected by the laws of our country. We have freedom of religion, which includes the right to resign from any religion, without the religious leaders/church taking any further action against us.
The law does not allow “excommunication” or any other action against a person who has formerly resigned from a religion/church.
So, it is very important to submit a formal, written letter of resignation, when leaving the Mormon church.
The following link provides a simple summary of 2 court cases that have tested our right to this religious freedom:
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How to Resign from the LDS Church
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"LEGAL PRECEDENTS
There is one case in particular that has clearly established in case law a right that most of us believe we had all along: the right to simply resign from a church. A second case is important to establish the church’s vulnerability to lawsuits when they refuse to honor resignations.
GUINN V THE CHURCH OF CHRIST OF COLLINSVILLE
Final decision by the Supreme Court of Oklahoma, January 1989
Marian Guinn, a member of the Church of Christ of Collinsville, OK, hand delivered her resignation to the minister after he told her he was going to excommunicate her for fornication.
The minister refused to honor the resignation, went ahead with the ‘excommunication’ and then announced it from the pulpit. Guinn sued and was awarded $390,000. On appeal the Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled that Guinn’s resignation was effective immediately and that anything the church or the minister received Guinn’s resignation was tortable.
In other words, she could sue for anything they did after she resigned. The court ruled that with her resignation Guinn withdrew her consent to being treated as a member and she withdrew her consent to being subject to church discipline.
Of extra importance is the fact that the court ruled that the right to freedom of religion also includes the right to unilaterally resign from a church.
In several subsequent court cases the Mormon church has agreed to the principles established in Guinn. They have not even attempted to argue that the principles do not apply to them.
THE NORMAN HANCOCK LAWSUIT (Mesa AZ 1985)
In 1985 the Mormon church ‘excommunicated’ Norman Hancock AFTER he submitted a letter of resignation to the church.
Hancock filed an $18 million lawsuit against the church, saying a person has a right to voluntarily resign from a church.
The suit was settled out of court and the settlement was sealed. An account on line reports that Hancock filed the suit himself, without the aid of a lawyer, after studying the Guinn case.
The same account says that church lawyers started discussing with Hancock just how much money he wanted, but he told them he didn’t want their money, that what he wanted was to have his name cleared. Church representatives agreed to change the records such that there would no longer be any record of an ‘excommuication’: the records would show that he resigned (that he asked for ‘name removal’).
. . .The Guinn and Hancock cases were the end of the era when the church told members that there was no way to stop being a member except by excommunication. The church began having a process it calls ‘name removal’.
However, the church still tells bishops and stake presidents that a member who is ‘transgressing’ should not be allowed to resign, that “name removal should not be used as a substitute for church discipline”.
If you’ve paid attention to the Guinn case, you already know that the church is wrong about that and they can be sued for ‘excommunicating’ someone who already resigned. At church headquarters they know this very well and they will usually put a quick halt to ‘discipline’ proceedings if they find out that the former members knows what his or her rights are."
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Site content may be used for any purpose without
explicit permission unless otherwise specified.
“Kos” and “Daily Kos” are registered trademarks of Kos Media, LLC
Helpful links from the website quoted above.
Leaving the Mormon Church
The Process
Getting Started
Sample Resignation Letter
You certainly have my prayers.
Peace and blessings,
Anna
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KathleenGee
Guest
Thanks, very much, Anna.
I remember now such posts going back a few years about this. I wonder how many are in the same situation, and want to be free of this system, but keep good relations with their families.
Yes, these behaviors need to be brought more into the public. Nobody should be treated like that. Especially here in our country.
I would want to see more people bring their own civil rights to Mormon leadership, face the abuse it is doing through these people’s own relations and kin, and come to terms that this is not the behaviors of humane religion.
Now I remember another…from the diary of St. Faustina, the prayer said in so many words, Mary …give us strength in suffering…protect us who hide their malice with the veil of religion…’
Hyper religionists are in every belief system. But the more we bring the truth to light, the less power they have over us…Christ said, ‘Beware of the leaven of the pharisee’.
I remember now such posts going back a few years about this. I wonder how many are in the same situation, and want to be free of this system, but keep good relations with their families.
Yes, these behaviors need to be brought more into the public. Nobody should be treated like that. Especially here in our country.
I would want to see more people bring their own civil rights to Mormon leadership, face the abuse it is doing through these people’s own relations and kin, and come to terms that this is not the behaviors of humane religion.
Now I remember another…from the diary of St. Faustina, the prayer said in so many words, Mary …give us strength in suffering…protect us who hide their malice with the veil of religion…’
Hyper religionists are in every belief system. But the more we bring the truth to light, the less power they have over us…Christ said, ‘Beware of the leaven of the pharisee’.
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TexanKnight
Guest
After I went inactive and told my Bishop why when I resigned from my callings, I began to get harassed. Calls at all hours of the night. Mormons walking up to me and telling me I had committed the unforgivable sin. Telling me I was going to hell. It was horrible. I was shunned by people who were my friends.
Then they tried to kidnap my children.
It was an ugly night.
So, I sent in my resignation. I explained why. Two weeks later, I got a letter saying I was being called before a Church council for an excommunication hearing. I wrote back and told that for me to attend meant I believed they still had authority over me. They didn’t since I had already asked for my name to be taken from the records and to be removed from the LDS Church. a month later, I got a letter saying a hearing was held, evidence presented that including talking negative about the LDS Church TO MY WIFE IN MY HOME. I was excommunicated. I thought that odd since I had already sent a letter advising I had left the LDS Church.
It was a very awful several months. Losing my testimony was bad enough…the harassment made it even worse.
Then they tried to kidnap my children.
It was an ugly night.
So, I sent in my resignation. I explained why. Two weeks later, I got a letter saying I was being called before a Church council for an excommunication hearing. I wrote back and told that for me to attend meant I believed they still had authority over me. They didn’t since I had already asked for my name to be taken from the records and to be removed from the LDS Church. a month later, I got a letter saying a hearing was held, evidence presented that including talking negative about the LDS Church TO MY WIFE IN MY HOME. I was excommunicated. I thought that odd since I had already sent a letter advising I had left the LDS Church.
It was a very awful several months. Losing my testimony was bad enough…the harassment made it even worse.
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Miriam1947
Guest
You are a much nicer person than I. A lawsuit would have been the least of their worries. Just reading this makes me angry.
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TexanKnight
Guest
One of the people who tried to kidnap my children spent three days in the hospital. I worked as a bailiff/law clerk for the chief judge. He tried to get me to press charges for attempted kidnapping. I refused. I was too afraid of qhat else the Mormons would do when I was not around. I was working full time and going to law school. I was hardly ever at home. I was too afraid of what they would do to my wife and/or children.
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CarolNoel
Guest
Thank you so much TexanKnight for shraring your story. It is quite an eye opener.
My best to you and your family.
My best to you and your family.
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KathleenGee
Guest
For all Mormons and those who want out:
This is a statement made on December 23, 1940:
“Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came to Germany I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the case of truth; but no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love for freedom. But they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks. Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced to confess, that what I once despised, I now praise unreservedly.”
Albert Einstein
This is a statement made on December 23, 1940:
“Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came to Germany I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the case of truth; but no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love for freedom. But they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks. Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced to confess, that what I once despised, I now praise unreservedly.”
Albert Einstein
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gazelam
Guest
That’s the most compelling reason I’ve ever seen to leave the Mormon Church. I’m going to become a Quaker thanks to Einstein.
“I consider the Society of Friends the religious community which has the highest moral standards. As far as I know, they have never made evil compromises and are always guided by their conscience. In international life, especially, their influence seems to me very beneficial and effective.”
—Letter to A. Chapple, Australia, February 23, 1954; Einstein Archive 59-405; also quoted in Nathan and Norden, Einstein on Peace P. 510
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RebeccaJ
Guest
In 1937, LDS President Heber Grant had visited Germany and urged the members to remain, get along, and not cause trouble. Consequently, some LDS members saw Hübener as a troublemaker who made things difficult for other Mormons in Germany. This recommendation did not change after Kristallnacht, which occurred the year following Grant’s visit, after which he evacuated all non-German Mormon missionaries.
Local LDS leader Arthur Zander was a fervent member of the Nazi Party, even to the extent of affixing notices to the church door stating “Jews not welcome” beginning in 1938. Immediately after the arrest of Helmuth Hübener, Zander, acting for the LDS, excommunicated the young man demonstratively.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_Hübener
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KathleenGee
Guest
Another falsehood…the Catholic Church complicity with the Nazis…I saw voting records…and majority of Catholic Germany did not vote for Nazis, bishops opposed them.
Likewise about 1200 to 3000 German Catholic priests executed for speaking the truth and opposing Naziism…
The other side issue of the beginning of the Protestant Reformation, was that as there was indeed a movement to correct abuse and corruption in the Church, likewise coinciding with the revolt was the growing sense of national identity combined with one’s new ‘evangelical’ religion…this happening both in Germany and England.
Individual nationalism puts countries against one another, unable to come to the banquet table in common faith as you see in the Catholic Church with one head, the Pope.
Christ’s kingdom is not of this world.
You will find consistency of profession of belief for 2,000 years in the universal Christian Church. There were times when local bishops instructed the laity to out on the street to attend to the dying, including the pagans. How many Christians laid down their lives for their neighbors??? just in living out the gospel?
Faith is still the walk of the individual…Christ said the chaff would always be with the wheat. And a seed of wheat must die to the ground before it can bear life. We must sacrifice ourselves daily so the Lord can become a live and animate us…many are called…the walk is hard and ardous…and not many make it. Affiliated with a name means nothing if one does not die to one’s self in total agnegation.
Daily dying to self is what makes authentic Christianity so hard.
Likewise about 1200 to 3000 German Catholic priests executed for speaking the truth and opposing Naziism…
The other side issue of the beginning of the Protestant Reformation, was that as there was indeed a movement to correct abuse and corruption in the Church, likewise coinciding with the revolt was the growing sense of national identity combined with one’s new ‘evangelical’ religion…this happening both in Germany and England.
Individual nationalism puts countries against one another, unable to come to the banquet table in common faith as you see in the Catholic Church with one head, the Pope.
Christ’s kingdom is not of this world.
You will find consistency of profession of belief for 2,000 years in the universal Christian Church. There were times when local bishops instructed the laity to out on the street to attend to the dying, including the pagans. How many Christians laid down their lives for their neighbors??? just in living out the gospel?
Faith is still the walk of the individual…Christ said the chaff would always be with the wheat. And a seed of wheat must die to the ground before it can bear life. We must sacrifice ourselves daily so the Lord can become a live and animate us…many are called…the walk is hard and ardous…and not many make it. Affiliated with a name means nothing if one does not die to one’s self in total agnegation.
Daily dying to self is what makes authentic Christianity so hard.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
…and so amazing.
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