question for LDS

  • Thread starter Thread starter exiled
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
**It is also important to know that the LDS do not worship the same Christ that we, as orthodox Christians, do. The LDS even claim their christ was/is a polygamist.

LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley, June 4, 1998:
“The traditional Christ of who they speak in not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak had been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.”(Church News, June, 20 1998, p. 7.)

LDS Church’s 147th General Conference, General Authority Bernard P. Brockbank:
“…It is true that many of the Christian churches worship A DIFFERENT JESUS CHRIST than is worshiped by the Mormons…” (“The Ensign,” May 1977, p. 26.)

Apostle Orson Pratt The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255:
". . . .Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” whom the Lord denounces… as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act. . . .

Journal of Discourses, Volume 1, Jedediah M. Grant, 8/7/1853, Uniformity
Page 345bscriptures.byu.edu/hbll.png
. . . .Celsus was a heathen philosopher; and what does he say upon the subject of Christ and his Apostles, and their belief? He says, “The grand reason why the Gentiles and philosophers of his school persecuted Jesus Christ, was, because he had so many wives; there were Elizabeth, and Mary, and a host of others that followed him.” After Jesus went from the stage of action, the Apostles followed the example of their master. For instance, John the beloved disciple, writes in his second Epistle, “Unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth.” Again, he says, “Having many things to write unto you (or communicate), I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be

Page 346ascriptures.byu.edu/hbll.png
full.” Again—“The children of thy elect sister greet thee.” This ancient philosopher says they were both John’s wives. Paul says, “Mine answer to them that do examine me is this …
Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas.” He, according to Celsus, had a numerous train of wives.

The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in the doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were “Mormons.”

Journal of Discourses, Volume 2, Orson Hyde, 3/18/1855, Judgments of God on the United States, Etc.
Page 210ascriptures.byu.edu/hbll.png

. . . .If there were none but Latter-day Saints living in Utah, we should have no occasion to speak upon this subject as we do; but being infested by those “who profess the pure morality of the religion of Jesus,” such as the Charleston Mercury endorses and eulogizes, we are constrained to speak in great plainness. I will now leave this subject, knowing that he or she that is righteous will be righteous still; and they who are filthy will be filthy still.

I discover that some of the Eastern papers represent me as a great blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on Marriage, at our last Conference, that Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children.

All that I have to say in reply to that charge is this—they worship a Savior that is too pure and holy to fulfil the commands of his Father. I worship one that is just pure and holy enough “to fulfil all righteousness;” not only the righteous law of baptism, but the still more righteous and important law “to multiply and replenish the earth.” Startle not at this! For even the Father himself honored that law by coming down to Mary, without a natural body, and begetting a son; and if Jesus begat children, he only “did that which he had seen his Father do.”. . .

Journal of Discourses, Volume 13, Brigham Young, 11/13/1870, Gathering the Poor–Religion a Science

Page 309ascriptures.byu.edu/hbll.png
. . . .The Scripture says that He, the Lord, came walking in the Temple, with His train; I do not know who they were, unless His wives and children; but at any rate they filled the Temple, and how many there were who could not get into the Temple I cannot say. This is the account given by Isaiah, whether he told the truth or not I leave everybody to judge for himself… . . .
_____________________________________**

See:** LDS Scripture Citation Index

**
 
To the OP from your church’s catechism “2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God…” Mormonism is polytheistic. They believe in multiple gods and that you can become a god. If I can have a choice of being either Catholic or Mormon (again) I’d go Catholic.

Mormonism, is a false gospel. They teach many commands of men for doctrine. There’s no point in studying what they believe. It’ll just confuse you.
 
Amazing stuff, Anna.
Miriam1947,

It is difficult to have a discussion about the Mormon faith without knowing their definition of god, christ, salvation, etc. Their god is not our God. Their christ is not our Christ. Their view of salvation is not our view of salvation. Of course, the Mormon missionaries fail to correct these differences when they give lessons to potential converts.

Anna
 
Miriam1947,

It is difficult to have a discussion about the Mormon faith without knowing their definition of god, christ, salvation, etc. Their god is not our God. Their christ is not our Christ. Their view of salvation is not our view of salvation. Of course, the Mormon missionaries fail to correct these differences when they give lessons to potential converts.

Anna
Man, I’d hate to be one of the missionaries that knock on her door…but, I’d love to be in the room when she confronts them:D
 
Anna, holy moley! I’ve seen some well prepared posts but this is amazing. I am just trying to imagine a leader of my Church spouting this kind of stuff.

Am I to understand that most Mormons are, or should be familiar with these quotes and they still stick around?
 
Anna, holy moley! I’ve seen some well prepared posts but this is amazing. I am just trying to imagine a leader of my Church spouting this kind of stuff.

Am I to understand that most Mormons are, or should be familiar with these quotes and they still stick around?
Steve,
Sadly, I’m not really sure that all Mormons are familiar with the teachings of their founder and early prophets. Yet, every quote I posted came from an lds website. It’s all there for anyone to read.

Anna
 
Anna, holy moley! I’ve seen some well prepared posts but this is amazing. I am just trying to imagine a leader of my Church spouting this kind of stuff.

Am I to understand that most Mormons are, or should be familiar with these quotes and they still stick around?
All of these quotes have been posted on this board at one time or another. Mormons ignore them. To face the truth is almost devastating to a Mormon. Losing your testimony is one of the hardest things to face and go through.
 
To face the truth is almost devastating to a Mormon. Losing your testimony is one of the hardest things to face and go through.
A Catholic friend of mine, who is also a former Mormon, says when she was LDS people who had “apostatized” created fear, because if Sister or Brother so-and-so who appeared so strong in their Mormon faith apostatized, how is it that someone who already has serious doubts is going to remain faithful?

If only LDS could see leaving Mormonism as going towards truth, rather than fearing letting go of what they know cannot be reconciled. God is love, in Him there is nothing to fear.
 
All of these quotes have been posted on this board at one time or another. Mormons ignore them. To face the truth is almost devastating to a Mormon. Losing your testimony is one of the hardest things to face and go through.
TexanKnight,

I know this was addressed to Steve; but you are right. Most of this information has been posted before by other forum members on the numerous Mormon threads. I think part of the reaction to my posts comes from the fact that there is somewhat of a shock factor seeing so many controversial beliefs posted together.

You are also right about the devastating effects of facing the truth about Mormonism. I think it is especially difficult for cradle Mormons. Leaving the Mormon church can even result in being disowned by one’s own family.

One particular year, when my son was in grade school, we planned to celebrate his birthday at our house. My son told me the friends he wanted to invite. Several of his friends were Mormon (we have a large Mormon population here). My son came home from school very upset. He said he invited his friend (I’ll call him John) to his party, but John said his mom would not let him come because “Baptists hate Mormons.” We were still in the Baptist Church at the time, and we certainly did not hate Mormons. I called John’s mom and told her we would love to have her son attend the birthday party. She flatly refused. In her defense, she may have had a disturbing experience with Baptists in the past.

That was many years ago. My son is 25 now. When he came home to visit a few months ago; we were talking about what his friends are doing now—many he has known since the first grade. He told me that his friend John left the Mormon Church and his family has disowned him. That broke my heart. My son was very saddened by this news as well. We were glad he left the Mormon church, but John paid a high price for leaving. John didn’t leave for another faith. He just discovered the claims of his Mormon church to be false. He is a young man who needs prayer and friendship.

So, you are right in saying that facing the truth can be devastating for a Mormon.

Yet, truth must be told, especially on a forum like this where thousands of people read these posts.

The OP is asking questions that must be answered. Going to an LDS ward and asking to speak with missionaries, as has been suggested earlier in this thread, is a dangerous thing–because the OP will not hear the truth about Mormonism from the missionaries. The lessons they give are cleverly crafted to sound very “Christian.” The controversial doctrines will only be introduced over time after Baptism into the Mormon church. Also, some of the early teachings of Joseph Smith and the early prophets may be falling out of favor. So, some of the early teachings may be a bit shocking to those already in the Mormon church.

Anna
 
Good work, Anna.

Yes and there being so much to Mormon history…they disowning their own for leaving such a belief system makes it a big cult in my mind.

I try to spend more time praying for them…and their belief systems are indeed polytheistic, as what is coming out on the other thread on the LDS.

They are hijacking Judeo Christianity, and wish they would find their own particular names for their personages rather than overlay the two religions.
 
I think polytheism is grounded on self will, where man makes idols and deities to serve the flesh rather than the spirit. The flesh can also include vainglory and working towards one’s sense of perfection for its own sake rather than for Christ and the kingdom.
 
All of these quotes have been posted on this board at one time or another. Mormons ignore them. To face the truth is almost devastating to a Mormon. Losing your testimony is one of the hardest things to face and go through.
Yes, like the JW’s, this is one aspect of this religion that has a cultish tinge. I don’t like to throw that word around lightly, but it is a cult tactic. If you leave, not only is your religion going to change but your entire life as you knew it is over. It is an external preassure that has a lot of force.

I compare this to someone leaving the Catholic faith. He might have some run after him in an effort to disuade him from doing so, but that would be the extent of it. We respect people’s decisions and sit and wait with open arms for their return. We do not cause upheaval in their lives.

Just sayin’…
 
I think polytheism is grounded on self will, where man makes idols and deities to serve the flesh rather than the spirit. The flesh can also include vainglory and working towards one’s sense of perfection for its own sake rather than for Christ and the kingdom.
Very perceptive, Kathleen. Mormonism seems to concentrate on attaining “knowledge” so that they might progress, for their own benefit, toward godhood. This is the gnostic side of Mormonism.
 
Yes, like the JW’s, this is one aspect of this religion that has a cultish tinge. I don’t like to throw that word around lightly, but it is a cult tactic. If you leave, not only is your religion going to change but your entire life as you knew it is over. It is an external preassure that has a lot of force.

I compare this to someone leaving the Catholic faith. He might have some run after him in an effort to disuade him from doing so, but that would be the extent of it. We respect people’s decisions and sit and wait with open arms for their return. We do not cause upheaval in their lives.

Just sayin’…
Leaving the LDS Church was very difficult for many reasons. First, a Mormon is typically defined more by their Church than any other Church (except maybe Muslims). It is truly a way of life. When you leave, you lose that identity…that part of yourself.

Plus, for converts like I was, you feel horribly cheated and emotionally and Spiritually abused. I do not think you feel that way leaving other churches.

Then you face the loss friends and family. That, also, does not happen when you leave other churches.

For me, I lost friends and family when I became LDS…I quit my job and left my fiance to serve a mission at the age of 24. So much sacrifice…and then to discover it was false was incredibly devastating. It is that way with most LDS.

Losing my testimony was one of the worst periods in my life. I know of Mormons who no longer truly believe, but will never leave the LDS Church so as not to face any of this. I know Mormons who are too afraid to study for fear they might lose their testimony…especially after hearing how others have lost theirs by studying. It is easier to stay LDS than deal with leaving.
 
Leaving the LDS Church was very difficult for many reasons. First, a Mormon is typically defined more by their Church than any other Church (except maybe Muslims). It is truly a way of life. When you leave, you lose that identity…that part of yourself.

Plus, for converts like I was, you feel horribly cheated and emotionally and Spiritually abused. I do not think you feel that way leaving other churches.

Then you face the loss friends and family. That, also, does not happen when you leave other churches.

For me, I lost friends and family when I became LDS…I quit my job and left my fiance to serve a mission at the age of 24. So much sacrifice…and then to discover it was false was incredibly devastating. It is that way with most LDS.

Losing my testimony was one of the worst periods in my life. I know of Mormons who no longer truly believe, but will never leave the LDS Church so as not to face any of this. I know Mormons who are too afraid to study for fear they might lose their testimony…especially after hearing how others have lost theirs by studying. It is easier to stay LDS than deal with leaving.
Thanks for this. It is difficult for any of us who have not been through this to really have any idea of what you and others have gone through. God bless you for your courage.
 
Leaving the LDS Church was very difficult for many reasons. First, a Mormon is typically defined more by their Church than any other Church (except maybe Muslims). It is truly a way of life. When you leave, you lose that identity…that part of yourself.

Plus, for converts like I was, you feel horribly cheated and emotionally and Spiritually abused. I do not think you feel that way leaving other churches.

Then you face the loss friends and family. That, also, does not happen when you leave other churches.

For me, I lost friends and family when I became LDS…I quit my job and left my fiance to serve a mission at the age of 24. So much sacrifice…and then to discover it was false was incredibly devastating. It is that way with most LDS.

Losing my testimony was one of the worst periods in my life. I know of Mormons who no longer truly believe, but will never leave the LDS Church so as not to face any of this. I know Mormons who are too afraid to study for fear they might lose their testimony…especially after hearing how others have lost theirs by studying. It is easier to stay LDS than deal with leaving.
TexanKnight,

I appreciate your sharing this with us. At least you found your way to our Lord. I’m sure your suffering has made you compassionate towards our Mormon brethren.

Sometimes, I get so into debating the doctrines that I forget there are people behind these online usernames—and those people have feelings and struggles. We can hurt others without realizing it; and that certainly is not what our Lord wants. We must speak the truth with love and humility. Feel free to remind me of my own words, when I get carried away, again (as I know I surely will. 😊 )

Peace and blessings,
Anna
 
TexanKnight,

I appreciate your sharing this with us. At least you found your way to our Lord. I’m sure your suffering has made you compassionate towards our Mormon brethren.

Sometimes, I get so into debating the doctrines that I forget there are people behind these online usernames—and those people have feelings and struggles. We can hurt others without realizing it; and that certainly is not what our Lord wants. We must speak the truth with love and humility. Feel free to remind me of my own words, when I get carried away, again (as I know I surely will. 😊 )

Peace and blessings,
Anna
It is hard for all of us. I KNOW what it is like, and I KNOW that the people who come here have feelings. But sometimes, it is hard to be patient. To know what I know and to have been thru what I have been thru makes me want to hurry the process.

And they might deny it, but they are here for a reason. The LDS Church does not like, or at least they USED to not like, their members coming to sites like this, or reading anti-LDS stuff. So, though they might deny it, they are here because they are searching.
 
TexasKnight,

Yes you have really suffered. And your sufferings are being used to help other Mormons to get the courage to leave. The more they break out of this bondage, the belief system’s treatment of former Mormons will be lessened.

I was thinking this morning in reflection how they baptized consecrated priests and nuns and brothers who, with free will and full consciousness of all their mental capacities, have given their life totally to the Lord, and then to see this belief system, with its invalidation of the Catholic faith as an abomination, they spend little time obsessing on other religions of the world, and then to baptize them after they have passed this life into the Lord, is incomprehensible, to say the least.

John Paul II was a most effective pope, and they had to baptize him atleast 6 times, and made him a member of the San Diego Mormon community…
 
Mormonism is spreading into Italy and other non-English speaking countries where it is more difficult to find out the full truth about Mormonism, how it has been hiding its history, true intent, and means to take income from its members.

Texan Knight…I am going to relay all your points you have shared about those who want to leave and what happens to those that do, to my priest friend of 40 years, who is well known in Italy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top