Question for Mormon/LDS only.

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Yet the question is for “Momons/LDS only”. If you aren’t Mormon, then you are non-Mormon. While I would agree that former Mormons are in a different category I would not want a thread directed to “Catholics only” to be resonded to by ex-Catholics with an axe to grind. Just saying… Not a big deal anyway. Since ParkerD has been banned, I don’t see a lot of responses coming to this thread if it is limited to Mormons/LDS only. It limits the dialogue to Mormons and the OP - not a good idea for a “forum”.
Why would you presuppose we have axes to grind? I am just as capable at answering LDS questions as a Mormon. I served a mission, serves in the Bishopric and Elder’s Quorum Presidency and was a teacher. Figure I have the resume to answer questions. And I have no axe to grind.
 
Thank you for the clarification. According to my research, Adam is a god. If so, then Eve must be a goddess. Which leads to Heavenly Mother (Goddess in heaven), which was never clarified, is now denied. However, it is a logical progression.

Of course, we are in a sense children of God, since He was our Creator. I just don’t get how that leads to condemnation of the descendants of those who opposed the founders of Mormonism??? 😃

You are almost channeling Parker. 😃
Actually, Brigham Young taught that Adam and one of his wives, Eve, came from another planet and brought seeds to plant, etc.
 
Actually, Brigham Young taught that Adam and one of his wives, Eve, came from another planet and brought seeds to plant, etc.
:eek: I thought I had found everything worth finding in the JoD! Where is that?
 
Why would you presuppose we have axes to grind? I am just as capable at answering LDS questions as a Mormon. I served a mission, serves in the Bishopric and Elder’s Quorum Presidency and was a teacher. Figure I have the resume to answer questions. And I have no axe to grind.
See my post above. Again, sorry for the confusion.
 
:eek: I thought I had found everything worth finding in the JoD! Where is that?
Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken–HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees, the apple, the peach, the plum, the pear, and every other fruit that is desirable and good for man; the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth.

Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 1:50-51
 
You are right. I already had that passage on my list, but it contains so many more remarkable statements, I had overlooked that part!!! The whole thing is a WOW!!!
When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him…
They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees,
That is what it says. No wonder Mormons like sci-fi so much.
 
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 1:50-51
As someone who use to live in a heavily populated Mormon area, I would like to add that there are some doubts about the Journal of Discourse and its accuracy. Thus, not everything that it states is for sure beliefs of the church.
 
As someone who use to live in a heavily populated Mormon area, I would like to add that there are some doubts about the Journal of Discourse and its accuracy. Thus, not everything that it states is for sure beliefs of the church.
That is certainly true. However, it was once held as doctrine. Since their line of continuing prophets means that doctrine can be changed at the whim of the present prophet, there is no such thing as Mormon doctrine anyway. That is why I use the word “teaching.”
 
As someone who use to live in a heavily populated Mormon area, I would like to add that there are some doubts about the Journal of Discourse and its accuracy. Thus, not everything that it states is for sure beliefs of the church.
Actually, because of what it says, they TRY to claim there are doubts…wouldn’t you? The problem is, the volumes were approved by the LDS Church way back when. When people started seeing the awful teachings by alleged prophets, they started the white-wash campaign.

This WAS taught. It WAS doctrine.
 
Since ParkerD has been banned…
I apologize both for asking something off-topic and for posting in this thread as a Catholic but…

I am curious what ParkerD did to get banned? I’ve read countless discussions between him and my fellow Catholics here but must have missed something.

Thanks in advance for any info.
 
Actually, Joseph DID say he had done more to keep the Church going than even Jesus.
This is the full quote spoken in May 1844: "I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I " (History of the Church, Vol.6, pp. 408-09).

It is true that Joseph was boasting, having patterned his address after a talk by Paul recorded in 2 Corinthians chapter 11. In that sermon, Paul was boasting to the Gentiles. Joseph picked up on Paul’s theme.

In reference to Jesus, Joseph could have been thinking of John 6 where many of Jesus’s disciples left him because they did not like what He was claiming about Himself - “From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him” (verse 66).

Jesus also said later, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father” (John 14:12). To what greater work could Jesus be referring? Perhaps He means a larger work, but certainly not more significant. For example, John the Baptist presumably baptized more people than Jesus, Paul may have converted more as a missionary,and Joseph Smith kept the Church together longer.
 
Actually, Joseph DID say he had done more to keep the Church going than even Jesus.
This is the quote Joseph gave: "I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I " (History of the Church, Vol.6, pp. 408-09).
It is true that Joseph was boasting, having patterned his address after a talk by Paul recorded in 2 Corinthians chapter 11. In that sermon, Paul was boasting to the Gentiles. Joseph picked up on Paul’s theme.
In reference to Jesus, Joseph could have been thinking of John 6 where many of Jesus’s disciples left him because they did not like what He was claiming about Himself - “From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him” (verse 66).

Jesus also said later on another occasion, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father” (John 14:12). To what greater work could Jesus be referring? Perhaps He means a larger work, but certainly not more significant.- eg: John the Baptist presumably baptized more people than Jesus, the Apostle Paul may have converted more as a missionary, and Joseph Smith kept the Church together longer.
 
This is the quote Joseph gave: "I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I " (History of the Church, Vol.6, pp. 408-09).
It is true that Joseph was boasting, having patterned his address after a talk by Paul recorded in 2 Corinthians chapter 11. In that sermon, Paul was boasting to the Gentiles. Joseph picked up on Paul’s theme.
In reference to Jesus, Joseph could have been thinking of John 6 where many of Jesus’s disciples left him because they did not like what He was claiming about Himself - “From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him” (verse 66).

Jesus also said later on another occasion, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father” (John 14:12). To what greater work could Jesus be referring? Perhaps He means a larger work, but certainly not more significant.- eg: John the Baptist presumably baptized more people than Jesus, the Apostle Paul may have converted more as a missionary, and Joseph Smith kept the Church together longer.
You are certainly free to speculate as to why Joseph would put himself on a higher level than Jesus. And I am sure your speculation will be in the light most favorable to Joseph Smith.

But, since he was a convicted con man, violated may laws including the Constitution, and started polygamy after getting caught having an affair, I hope you will forgive me in seeing Joseph in the proper light.

Be Blessed
 
This is the quote Joseph gave: ** "I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I " **(History of the Church, Vol.6, pp. 408-09).
Smith was a classic megalomaniac.
 
This is the quote Joseph gave: "I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I " (History of the Church, Vol.6, pp. 408-09).
He was claiming to be better than all of those holy Saints, including Jesus, Who is God.
“1 John 4: [3] And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God: and this is Antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, and he is now already in the world.”
Anyone that claims to be better than Jesus in any way, is putting himself above God. That’s blasphemy.
It is true that Joseph was boasting, having patterned his address after a talk by Paul recorded in 2 Corinthians chapter 11. In that sermon, Paul was boasting to the Gentiles. Joseph picked up on Paul’s theme.
Paul was not really “boasting” in that chapter, at all. It wasn’t a sermon, either. It was a letter written to the Corinthians, who were straying away from the true Gospel. Paul was being sarcastic and playing the fool to admonish the Corinthians for listening to some others who had come to them claiming to be “apostles”, who were false teachers that were preaching the errors of “another gospel” when he wasn’t there. They were preaching false teachings that he and the true Apostles had never taught to them, but the Corinthians were fooled into listening to them. Those false teachers were also asking them for money, to pay for them to preach. Then, Paul tells them that he never asked for anything from them, but Christians from other churches had given him what he needed to sustain him in his ministry, so he could go and preach to them without burdening them with having to support him while he was there.

If Joseph Smith was supposed to be doing what Paul did, then he completely misunderstood Paul’s words, as he did most of the Bible.
In reference to Jesus, Joseph could have been thinking of John 6 where many of Jesus’s disciples left him because they did not like what He was claiming about Himself - “From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him” (verse 66).
In John 6, the disciples that left were scandalized by Jesus saying that they had to eat His flesh and drink His blood in order for them to have any life in them. Like many modern day non-Catholics, they didn’t understand what Jesus was telling them about the necessity of partaking in the Sacrament of Holy Eucharist, which is the true Body & Blood, Soul & Divinity of Jesus Christ.

Many people tried to leave Joseph Smith when they realized he was a fraud, but after so many of them were killed for doing it, the rest of them were too afraid to leave. Jesus didn’t have to threaten anyone into following Him. They did it out of pure love.
Jesus also said later on another occasion, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father” (John 14:12). To what greater work could Jesus be referring? Perhaps He means a larger work, but certainly not more significant.- eg: John the Baptist presumably baptized more people than Jesus, the Apostle Paul may have converted more as a missionary, and Joseph Smith kept the Church together longer.
The works that Jesus was referring to were the many miracles that He had performed, that the Apostles also performed by the thousands after His Ascension. Those same kinds of miracles continue in the Catholic Church to this day. How many amazing miracles did Joseph Smith or any of his followers perform, that are carefully documented and verified by eyewitnesses, as well as doctors? How many cripples walked because they prayed for them, or touched them? How many that were born blind, were given their sight? Those are the kinds of signs and wonders that God uses to show that someone is truly holy, and speaks the truth of God. Those were the works and wonders that converted thousands to follow Jesus and His true Apostles, because only God can perform those kinds of true miracles. “Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.
 
Hm. I don’t know if that actually works, Casslanpepci. Exactly how many of the 8 witnesses stayed faithful to the LDS church until their deaths? Certainly not the number of original Apostles Jesus had. And heck, most of the original leaders in the LDS church died as old men, not as martyrs. At least the martyrs of the church Christ established had a good reason to deny Christ. Most of the early LDS leaders left because they’d have fallings-out with Joseph Smith or someone else high up in Church Authority.

To say that Joseph Smith kept his “disciples” around longer than Jesus just isn’t true. And until Mormonism somehow gets a leg up on the nearly 2,000 year headstart that Jesus’ true church got in staying a whole, cohesive church, I don’t think JS had the right to make that claim.
 
Which parts of this video below are true, and which ones are false, just wondering, because I have family that is Mormon, and I want to know what they REALLY believe, not what people THINK they believe. (BTW sorry in advance if the link doesn’t work for you.)

youtube.com/watch?v=Pxk3YltU3O8
This little video would almost make me laugh if it wasn’t so offensive. It distorts almost everything we believe. It’s so offensive I hate to even write a response. But let me put a couple notes down for clarity.
  • Heavenly Father with many beautiful wives in some mock harem, what blasphemy!
  • These wives changing and burping children all day, please.
  • A council of god’s(?) around a table voting on the eternal destiny of man. Symbolism should not be taken literally.
  • Satan’s followers turning into demons.
  • God knocking on Mary’s door to conceive Christ. How crude. This is man’s interpretation.
  • Joseph as equal with Christ. Simply not true.
Now, this video seems to be approximately what most anti-LDS want others to believe about us. It does contain some truth but packages it all wrong until it stinks…

There is a member’s opinion.
 
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