Question for Muslim women

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Well, a lot of people dont like for their religion to be “suppressed.” I.e., no “Christmas party” but have a “holiday party.” They want to see a nativity scene instead of Rudolph. It’s more secularism creeping in, to force people to get along.
You know why I said “whatever you call it, or however you interpret it”? Because it seems that only you and some of your fellow muslims are feeling this so called ‘suppression’. I live in the west and i can share my non-belief with pride to the people i meet here. So can hindus, mormons, jws, wiccans, etc. You know Im telling the truth. Can we do so in muslim majority countries? Are witches safe there? This kind of liberty is what I want muslims to learn to give to others. Yeah its not perfect but its way better than what the islamic world can offer. Agree? 👍
 
Thanks ralphinal, please keep paul out and away from the discussion. He is nobody in religion when you have Jesus. From where did you get that commandment to honor the father and the mother? Please quote.

Islam is not only good to women but it is good to all mankind. Even good for the animalkind too. If the Muslims have forgotten the message now, just like the christians forgot and lost the message after 300 A.D. then no one should blame islam. I do not blame Jesus or his real teachings.

The muslims are suffering due to not understanding the real teachings of Islam now. Had they been on the right lines of Islam then you would not have seen them being beaten. They would have lived a good peaceful life of honor. Presently, the Muslims are exactly the same as the Jews of the time of Jesus. I hope that will explain everything to you.
Why should we keep Paul out of the discussion? Paul, along with Peter and the rest of the Apostles spread the good news of the Gospel to the rest of the world. Peacefully, I might add. Christians were not converted by the sword, but in spite of it. Who spread Mohammad’s teachings and how?
 
Because Islam is a wholistic way of life, comprising not just specific beliefs or practices, but every part of life individually and socially, it’s hard to say what is most important, without constructing a pyramid view of Islam. At the top of the pyramid, from which all aspects of the faith are derived, is absolute submission to God. As a Muslim woman, I believe in God–a Creator–who has sent guidance to mankind, so we can understand His blessings and show gratitude for them, so we can know His Love, Mercy, Compassion, and humble ourselves before Him. And everything in my life returns to this focus–the ritual prayer, covering my body, how I treat my parents, children, husband, etc.
As ex-Muslim Amil so aptly puts it here:

An elaborate package of mostly illogical and bizarre prescriptions and proscriptions comes with the Islamic offer, covering every imaginable aspect of life. In the matter of being a good Muslim, nothing is left to chance that one needs to figure out for himself. “I think, therefore I am” said Rene Descartes in substantiating his claim to being a conscious being. “I don’t think, I faith; therefore I am an automaton,” says the Muslim in absolving himself of the need for independent thinking.

Even the minutest detail of the Muslim’s life is rigidly structured. He is to perform the obligatory prayer, for instance, five times a day at the exact appointed times. He must drop everything and go through the prescribed gesticulation and recitation of the verses while facing Mecca. Before saying his prayer, however, he must perform ablution. The Ablution, using water, must be carried out in a precise manner and sequence. In the absence of water, the faithful can substitute soil for water and go through the practice of “purifying” himself by running soil over his hands, arms, face and feet. After completion of ablution, as prescribed, he may proceed to say his prayer unless he commits flatulence. In that case, he must re-perform the ablution all over again."

Vickie
 
Honor thy father and mother are in Exodus, as part of the ten commandments.

Paul is relevent as, according to Muslims, Paul corrupted Christianity. Therefore, my corrupted self can quote him.
 
Why should we keep Paul out of the discussion? Paul, along with Peter and the rest of the Apostles spread the good news of the Gospel to the rest of the world. Peacefully, I might add. Christians were not converted by the sword, but in spite of it. Who spread Mohammad’s teachings and how?
Thanks for reminding me. I forgot to mention Peter with paul. Both are guilty of corrupting the teachings of Jesus. James was however the just and right person. But he is not being recognised in any way.

Islam was not spread by sword at all. Islam was attacked with the sword from all sides. So the attackers had to be dealt with the swords by the Muslims. That was also according to the teachings of Jesus who said “Who ever uses the sword will be killed by the sword.” That is what happened to the enemies of Islam.

WE understand the real teachings of Jesus and we love Jesus more that any one else. We love Jesus as much as we love Moses and Muhammad. But the christians are biased. They cannot do justice to any one nor can they tell the truth or see the truth. Still we do not have any grudge against the christians.
 
Thanks for reminding me. I forgot to mention Peter with paul. Both are guilty of corrupting the teachings of Jesus. James was however the just and right person. But he is not being recognised in any way.

Islam was not spread by sword at all. Islam was attacked with the sword from all sides. So the attackers had to be dealt with the swords by the Muslims. That was also according to the teachings of Jesus who said “Who ever uses the sword will be killed by the sword.” That is what happened to the enemies of Islam.

WE understand the real teachings of Jesus and we love Jesus more that any one else. We love Jesus as much as we love Moses and Muhammad. But the christians are biased. They cannot do justice to any one nor can they tell the truth or see the truth. Still we do not have any grudge against the christians.
  1. James if fully recognized. He was the Bishop of Jerusalem, and the leader of the church in Palestine.
  2. Neither Peter nor Paul corrupted the teachings of Jesus. If you believe that they did, please show proof of this, and no, I will NOT accept “because the Koran says so” as proof.
  3. While Mohammad and his followers did face attacks in and around Mecca and Medina, they were NOT attacked by:
The Persians
The Byzantines
The Egyptians
The Spanish
The Franks
The Pathans
The Hindus
The Jews
The Goths

All of whom came under attack by Muslim armies within 100 years of Mohammad’s death.

You do not honor Jesus fully. Jesus IS the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity, the Gate to the Father and the Saviour of the World. Because of His Death and Resurrection, we might have Life Eternal. Without Jesus…death and damnation.

You can claim corruption of the Biblical texts all you want, but we have more documents attesting the existence of Jesus that attest to the existence of Plato or Aristotle.

Mik
 
  1. Neither Peter nor Paul corrupted the teachings of Jesus. If you believe that they did, please show proof of this, and no, I will NOT accept “because the Koran says so” as proof.
You can claim corruption of the Biblical texts all you want, but we have more documents attesting the existence of Jesus that attest to the existence of Plato or Aristotle.

Mik
Mik, part of your post is right. You need proof that paul and Peter corrupted the bible and you would not like the proof from the Quran. That is alright. There is nothing about paul or Peter in the Quran. The proof is very much available in your own bible. See all the chapters. Most are written (or preached) by Paul and less by Jesus.

Then we learn from the life history of Jesus in the four Gospels. There is Jesus teaching and preaching very well. Then we see that the preachings of paul are totally different to those of Jesus. i.e. The One God and Trinity Sabath, and the abrogation of Jewish law and the eating of pigs meat and Trinity and circumcision etc. And the preachings to the gentiles. (All is different).
How come paul who was an enemy became the greatest apostle (Disciple). He had not spent even a day with Jesus.

You as a christian can have any belief that you like. But we as Muslims have no room for paul. Paul is no where in our books and Jesus also never predicted (prophesied) the conversion of paul.
 
Mik, part of your post is right. You need proof that paul and Peter corrupted the bible and you would not like the proof from the Quran. That is alright. There is nothing about paul or Peter in the Quran. The proof is very much available in your own bible. See all the chapters. Most are written (or preached) by Paul and less by Jesus.

Then we learn from the life history of Jesus in the four Gospels. There is Jesus teaching and preaching very well. Then we see that the preachings of paul are totally different to those of Jesus. i.e. The One God and Trinity Sabath, and the abrogation of Jewish law and the eating of pigs meat and Trinity and circumcision etc. And the preachings to the gentiles. (All is different).
How come paul who was an enemy became the greatest apostle (Disciple). He had not spent even a day with Jesus.

You as a christian can have any belief that you like. But we as Muslims have no room for paul. Paul is no where in our books and Jesus also never predicted (prophesied) the conversion of paul.
The Trinity comes from John not Paul. I just thought that I would point that out.
 
How do you reconcile the koranic verse 4:34 which tells husbands to beat rebellious wives who wont listen to them?

What about the hadith wherein Mohammad accused women as deficient in religion & intelligence?

How do you go around those islamic ideas?
How about these:
  • A woman, an *** and a dog disrupts the prayer; if you use the back of a saddle then that will guard against the disruption of the prayer… (Sahih Muslim, 4.1034)
  • A passing woman, a dog, and a monkey annul a prayer. Aisha complained that Muhammad had made women dogs… (Sahih Bukhari, 1.9.490, 493,498)
  • A menstruating woman and a dog cuts off a prayer…(Sunaan Abu Dawud, 2.0703)
  • A black dog is Satan; or a donkey or a woman cancels a prayer… (Sunaan ibn Majah, 2.952)
  • An ***, a woman, and a black dog annuls a prayer…(Sunaan Nasai, 1.753)
    Vickie
 
How about these:
  • A woman, an *** and a dog disrupts the prayer; if you use the back of a saddle then that will guard against the disruption of the prayer… (Sahih Muslim, 4.1034)
  • A passing woman, a dog, and a monkey annul a prayer. Aisha complained that Muhammad had made women dogs… (Sahih Bukhari, 1.9.490, 493,498)
  • A menstruating woman and a dog cuts off a prayer…(Sunaan Abu Dawud, 2.0703)
  • A black dog is Satan; or a donkey or a woman cancels a prayer… (Sunaan ibn Majah, 2.952)
  • An ***, a woman, and a black dog annuls a prayer…(Sunaan Nasai, 1.753)
    Vickie
This is amusing. I am now going to point out the deficiency in your research. Quoting ahadith out of context is a dangerous business… because you’re quoting them inaccurately.

Someone mentioned these things in front of Aisha, saying that they invalidate the prayer! Don’t you think that Aisha, who lived in the household of the Prophet, would know? Of course she would, and she did. So when these things were mentioned in front of her, (after the death of the Prophet Muhammad, I should add, as what this person was saying was NOT true!!) she objected!! And naturally, to say these things is a slight on women. A slight acknowledged 1400 years ago by the Prophet’s wife. And you thought you were being clever. Hahaha.

So anyway, Aisha then tells us how the Prophet Muhammad used to pray in her house. She would have her legs stretched out in front of him while he was praying. And when he would go down to prostrate, he would touch her feet so she would move them, and then he would prostrate there. And when he stood back up she would stretch out her legs again.

So clearly, a woman in front of a man during his prayer does NOT invalidate it!!! 👍 👍 👍 🙂
 
Then we learn from the life history of Jesus in the four Gospels. There is Jesus teaching and preaching very well. Then we see that the preachings of paul are totally different to those of Jesus. i.e. The One God and Trinity Sabath, and the abrogation of Jewish law and the eating of pigs meat and Trinity and circumcision etc. And the preachings to the gentiles. (All is different).
How come paul who was an enemy became the greatest apostle (Disciple). He had not spent even a day with Jesus.
Most of these things are rulings of the early Church and the first Council. This is the purpose of the Church and the reason Jesus set it up.

*Matthew Ch 16
16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. *

The Church is to make rulings on things that are not explicitly stated in the Gospel (although these things are supported by the Gospel and do not contradict Jesus’s teachings). The Church will never error in Her teachings because Jesus/God sent the Holy Spirit to guide the Church until the end of time.

John Chapter 14
16 And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever. 17 The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him: but you shall know him; because he shall abide with you, and shall be in you.


If you read this you will see this is not Muhammed that is referred to. This is a fallacy that Muslims keep putting forth (do you see how islam puts forth false things?)

That is why the Catholic Church is a living institution and what is formed by the quran is dead. Islam is fixed back in the dark ages. The Church continues to live on until the end of time because it is the body of Christ, the Son of the Living God.

God bless.
 
Yes, we certainly don’t worship the same, the God I worship loves everyone and wants salvation for all, and the god of the Quran whom you worship (who is really Muhammad) only loves Muslims and relegates everyone else to hell.
Originally posted by Sister Amy

Hi Vickie, do you have proof of your statement? I will not accept a link or an article. You must provide proof directly from the Qur’an.👍
*003.085 *
YUSUFALI: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
PICKTHAL: And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
SHAKIR: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

003.010YUSUFALI: Those who reject Faith,- neither their possessions nor their (numerous) progeny will avail them aught against Allah: They are themselves but fuel for the Fire.
PICKTHAL: (On that Day) neither the riches nor the progeny of those who disbelieve will aught avail them with Allah. They will be fuel for Fire.
SHAKIR: (As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah, and these it is who are the fuel of the fire.

*018.103 *
YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?-
PICKTHAL: Say: Shall We inform you who will be the greatest losers by their works?
SHAKIR: Say: Shall We inform you of the greatest losers in (their) deeds?
*018.104 *
YUSUFALI: “Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?”
PICKTHAL: Those whose effort goeth astray in the life of the world, and yet they reckon that they do good work.
SHAKIR: (These are) they whose labor is lost in this world’s life and they think that they are well versed in skill of the work of hands.
*018.105 *
YUSUFALI: They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight.
PICKTHAL: Those are they who disbelieve in the revelations of their Lord and in the meeting with Him. Therefor their works are vain, and on the Day of Resurrection We assign no weight to them.
SHAKIR: These are they who disbelieve in the communications of their Lord and His meeting, so their deeds become null, and therefore We will not set up a balance for them on the day of resurrection.
*018.106 *
YUSUFALI: That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest.
PICKTHAL: That is their reward: hell, because they disbelieved, and made a jest of Our revelations and Our messengers.
SHAKIR: Thus it is that their recompense is hell, because they disbelieved and held My communications and My messengers in mockery.
*018.107 *
 
How about these:
  • A woman, an *** and a dog disrupts the prayer; if you use the back of a saddle then that will guard against the disruption of the prayer… (Sahih Muslim, 4.1034)
  • A passing woman, a dog, and a monkey annul a prayer. Aisha complained that Muhammad had made women dogs… (Sahih Bukhari, 1.9.490, 493,498)
  • A menstruating woman and a dog cuts off a prayer…(Sunaan Abu Dawud, 2.0703)
  • A black dog is Satan; or a donkey or a woman cancels a prayer… (Sunaan ibn Majah, 2.952)
  • An ***, a woman, and a black dog annuls a prayer…(Sunaan Nasai, 1.753)
    Vickie
** About the matters concerning women, we would rather discuss the bad certificate given to all women of the world in the OT bible, that is, to Eve. And the abuse of the women in general in the bible. Such is not the case in Quran.**
 
** About the matters concerning women, we would rather discuss the bad certificate given to all women of the world in the OT bible, that is, to Eve. And the abuse of the women in general in the bible. Such is not the case in Quran.**
You’re batting a thousand! Muslims should be listed in the Guinness Book of World Records for the largest number of replies answered by TU QUOQUES! 😃

Vickie
 
**I am sorry that I have not provided any quotes. But it is sure that the women are marked as the partners of the devil as per chritian and Jewish books. i.e. OT and NT. They are described as bad creatures, bad elements, leading man to sin. I cannot find the exact words to describe the women mentioned in OT and NT. Never described as a good creature.

Any one who will read the bible will find that women is not good at all. In Islam, there are words from the prophet Muhammad that: “The paradise is under the feet of the mothers,” Can you churchmen bring something as good from your bible?

Jesus is shown as disrespectful to his mother in bible NT. Paul=Saul also misplayed Mary and never mentioned her in any good words. You see. When Mary is like that (and sinful) then where will be the other sinful christian ladies.? they have no place in the society. Please help your ladies with some respectful remarks.**
 
Question for American Muslim women:

Given the fact that at the heart of Islamic nations (Middle East) women have little to no human rights, don’t you think without the constitution, you won’t even be allowed to leave your home without your guardian?

I recently saw a Muslim woman driving a SUV (a nice car may I add) alone talking on the cellphone and I was like yikes~ not in Saudi

Or did the Islam originals get it wrong and American Muslims got it right?
 
I am sorry that I have not provided any quotes. But it is sure that the women are marked as the partners of the devil as per chritian and Jewish books. i.e. OT and NT. They are described as bad creatures, bad elements, leading man to sin. I cannot find the exact words to describe the women mentioned in OT and NT. Never described as a good creature.

Any one who will read the bible will find that women is not good at all. In Islam, there are words from the prophet Muhammad that: “The paradise is under the feet of the mothers,” Can you churchmen bring something as good from your bible?

Jesus is shown as disrespectful to his mother in bible NT. Paul=Saul also misplayed Mary and never mentioned her in any good words. You see. When Mary is like that (and sinful) then where will be the other sinful christian ladies.? they have no place in the society. Please help your ladies with some respectful remarks.
And the tu quoques continue!😃

Vickie
 
I am sorry that I have not provided any quotes. But it is sure that the women are marked as the partners of the devil as per chritian and Jewish books. i.e. OT and NT. They are described as bad creatures, bad elements, leading man to sin. I cannot find the exact words to describe the women mentioned in OT and NT. Never described as a good creature.
Please, allow me to help you out…

geocities.com/CollegePark/Union/4089/women.html
google.com/search?q=bible+misogyny&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Genesis 19:5-8:
They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so
that we can have sex with them.”
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

Isaiah 3:16-23
The LORD says, “The women of Zion are haughty, walking along with outstretched necks, flirting with their eyes, tripping along with mincing steps, with ornaments jingling on their ankles.
Therefore the Lord will bring sores on the heads of the women of Zion; the LORD will make their scalps bald.” In that day the Lord will snatch away their finery: the bangles and headbands and crescent necklaces, the earrings and bracelets and veils, the headdresses and ankle chains and sashes, the perfume bottles and charms, the signet rings and nose rings, the fine robes and the capes and cloaks, the purses and mirrors, and the linen garments and tiaras and shawls.
Numbers 5:12-31
"Speak to the Israelites and say to them: `If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him by sleeping with another man, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected …and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure–or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure-- then he is to take his wife to the priest…
"The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.
Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, "If no other man has slept with
you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have defiled yourself by sleeping with a man other than your husband – here the priest is to put the woman under this curse of the oath–“may the LORD cause your people to curse and denounce you when he causes your thigh to waste away and your abdomen to swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells and your thigh wastes away.”
Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”
“The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water.
He shall have the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water will enter her and cause bitter suffering. The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the LORD and bring it to the altar. The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water.
If she has defiled herself and been unfaithful to her husband, then when she is made to drink the water that brings a curse, it will go into her and cause bitter suffering; her abdomen will swell and her thigh waste away, and she will become accursed among her people. If, however, the woman has not defiled herself and is free from impurity, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and defiles herself while married to her husband, or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the LORD and is to apply this entire law to her. The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.”
Deuteronomy 22:20-21:
If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

Matthew 18:25 :
Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that
he had be sold to repay the debt.

Isaiah 19:16:
In that day the Egyptians will be like women. They will shudder with fear at the uplifted hand that
the LORD Almighty raises against them.

Jeremiah 50:37:
A sword against her horses and chariots and all the foreigners in her ranks! They will become
women. A sword against her treasures! They will be plundered.

1 Corinthians 14:34:
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in
submission, as the Law says.

1 Timothy 2:11:
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.

1 Timothy 2:9 :
I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or
pearls or expensive clothes.
 
Why did Muhammad prohibit his wives from marrying after him?
Why did Muhammad prohibit Ali from marrying a second woman beside his daughter?
Why did Muhammad have the right to marry more than what he allowed his followers to?
Was Muhammad fair with all his wives? if not, didn’t he break his own rule?
 
Please, allow me to help you out…
You know, you should read what you copy & paste. Most them covers an isolated case. One case, both the man & everything he had were sold. In another case an army would be like women, which obviously mean they would lose their will to fight (nothing to do with actually lowering a woman’s natural ability, or human rights). And one case merely advices modesty.

So you are left with these:
1 Corinthians 14:34:
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in
submission, as the Law says.

1 Timothy 2:11:
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
which does lower women a bit. but it doesnt mean they are a bad creature.
 
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