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rev_kevin
Guest
Nope
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Bill_Pick
Guest
rev, I was thinking you was with a non-denomination church with a small r
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tweetymom
Guest
When we accept Jesus in our hearts and believe He is the Son of God, we are the Church.
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Justy90
Guest
What you are saying is false. Catholics are all over the map as is many other folks. When I was Catholic, I knew Catholics who were divorced, used contraception, did not go to mass regularly or confession but yet received the Eucharist whenever they decided to show up, had abortions, voted for pro-choice candidates regularly and were vocal about it and last but not least, professed non belief for many Catholic doctrines and dogma.
It’s everywhere, so don’t make such hypocritical statements.
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Bill_Pick
Guest
And you can call they CATHLOIC I don’t think soWhat you are saying is false. Catholics are all over the map as is many other folks. When I was Catholic, I knew Catholics who were divorced, used contraception, did not go to mass regularly or confession but yet received the Eucharist whenever they decided to show up, had abortions, voted for pro-choice candidates regularly and were vocal about it and last but not least, professed non belief for many Catholic doctrines and dogma.
It’s everywhere, so don’t make such hypocritical statements.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
There is only one Catholic dogma.What you are saying is false. Catholics are all over the map as is many other folks. When I was Catholic, I knew Catholics who were divorced, used contraception, did not go to mass regularly or confession but yet received the Eucharist whenever they decided to show up, had abortions, voted for pro-choice candidates regularly and were vocal about it and last but not least, professed non belief for many Catholic doctrines and dogma.
It’s everywhere, so don’t make such hypocritical statements.
The fact that individual Catholics sometimes don’t follow Church teaching is not the same having multiple dogmas.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
What if you reject his teaching and are disobedient to his commandments?When we accept Jesus in our hearts and believe He is the Son of God, we are the Church.
Did Jesus tell us how we can remain in his love?
John 15
10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
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Justy90
Guest
The Catholic churches are full of folks like this and you know it. They are counted as Catholics amongst the Catholic census are they not??
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tweetymom
Guest
I do not reject His teachings that are in His Word, the Bible.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
It seems to me that protestants believe that no matter what they teach or believe about Christ that they are still in the Church Jesus found.
but the problem is that Jesus stablished One Church, One Body, and not many to teach all He command. protestants by assuming authority just because they read the Bible doesnt constitute that they are in the Body stablished by Christ. why? because Jesus was very clear when He said: "whoever hears you, hears me and the One who sent Me. notice He never said whoever reads the Holy Bible. therefore, protestants are left with a big problem, for they cannot identify who they are supposed to hear the Word of God from.
Jesus has clearly stablished the authority of His Church. this authority cant never died according to Jesus. can a protestant point out authority in their ecclesial communities stablished by Christ Himself?
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There are many other things which keep me in the bosom of the Catholic Church – the unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here, her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests from the very seat of the Apostle Peter up to the present episcopate keeps me here and last, the very name of Catholic, which not without reason belongs to this Church alone in the face of so many heretics, so much so that although all heretics want to be called Catholic, when a stranger inquires where a Catholic Church meets, not one of the heretics would dare point out his own basilica or meeting place. The name of the Catholic Church is peculiar to the true Church." St Augustine.**
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wisdomseeker
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and what is this saying here? that the CC is not found by Christ because these are being disobedient to the Church’s teaching? does it make any difference whether they believe or not? what matters is what the Churches. just because a Catholic does not obey the Church, it doesnt mean it invalidates the Church. what do you expect, that the Church Jesus found would only have saints, people without sin? please. where is your logic? besides if this is true, according to you, it only proves that you are not a part of the Church because protestants dont belief anything the Church teaches anyway.What you are saying is false. Catholics are all over the map as is many other folks. When I was Catholic, I knew Catholics who were divorced, used contraception, did not go to mass regularly or confession but yet received the Eucharist whenever they decided to show up, had abortions, voted for pro-choice candidates regularly and were vocal about it and last but not least, professed non belief for many Catholic doctrines and dogma.
It’s everywhere, so don’t make such hypocritical statements.
we are millions of miles away from understanding each other. the CC is clear in what it believes. but you dont know really what to belief.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
You sure do. you just cannot see.
Jesus said: “whoever hears you, hears me and the One who sent me.” where does it say in the Bible that we are to read and not hear? and hear from whom? who Jesus stablished to preach the Gospel, the Apostles? how can you hear the Apostles today? from people who made the Bible a substitute to the authority Jesus stablished on earth?
arent you being dissobedient to Jesus when you believe such a thing? that the Bible is a substitute to men whom Jesus put in authority?
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tweetymom
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Nope!!! The Bible is not a substitute for annything, it is Gods word,period.
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AmericanJosiah
Guest
I realize that The Catholic Church (officially and formally, in its Catechism) makes a mistake. I can’t see how it does so innocently or unknowingly. In the Catechism # 87, it says Jesus promised this TO THE APOSTLES. It then wants you to apply it’s own doctrine of Apostolic Succession and all the claims of itself alone for itself alone, so that you “connect the dots” to itself alone, so that it may claim (as it does) that this promise applies to IT and to IT itself alone, exclusively.
But as all know that actually look up the verse, The Catholic Church is simply wrong. Jesus never promised this to ANY Apoostle or group thereof. So, all those “dots” it demands you “connect” don’t exist. It’s just itself claiming unaccountability for itself.
I generally regard The Catholic Church with high esteem and as both sincere and honest. This is one of the exceptions. I suspect it is purposely and knowingly misleading - in an attempt to underpin it’s most important issue: the exemption of self alone from accountability.
- Authority has nothing whatsoever to do with infalliblity/unaccountability. You know that. You are purposely confusing issues.
- Jesus never gave The Catholic Church any authority at all. For anything. About anything. Concerning anything. Not once. Not ever. We all know that. He never so much as MENTIONED it - about anything, for anything, at any time. It’s just The Catholic Church alone claiming that The Catholic Church alone is infallible, incapable of error (in formal matters of faith and morals) and thus the issue of correctness is replaced with the demand that all must just accept whatever it alone says “with docility.”
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AmericanJosiah
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Josiah:
.CHESTERTONRULES:
Josiah:
That’s my point.
Jesus said that he would be with the leaders of the Church until the end of time, that the gates of hell would not prevail against them, and that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth.Only one Church makes the claim that this is still true.
IMHO, you are confusing pride with infallibility, self alone exempting self alone from norming with self alone being correct.
- Again, you are confusing self excluding self from accountibility with self being correct.
- Jesus never promised The Catholic Church anything. About anything. Concerning anything. He never so much as even MENTIONED it. Even in passing, About anything whatsoever.
- The Holy Spirit does lead. And does so infallibly. But there’s NOTHING to suggest that He ONLY leads The Catholic Church (in fact, there’s NOTHING to suggest that God leads ANY institutional, organizational entities - only that He leads PEOPLE). And you are making an entirely irrational premise: that if God infallibly leads, ERGO we MUST infallibly follow and God thereby holds such as unaccountable. Did God lead Adam and Eve? Infallibly/inerrantly? Of course (God cannot lead errantly). ERGO, THEREFORE, was it necessitated thereby that Adam and Eve INFALLIBLY followed? Nope, they did not! Did God hold them as unaccountable? Nope. You have a false premise, actually two of them: 1) God only leads The Catholic Church. 2) Since God infallibly leads, we have no other possibility but to infallibly follow - thus such is infallible/unaccountable. Both are entirely unfounded: biblically and logically.
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IMHO, you are conceding that the gates of hell have prevailed against the Church, that the Holy Spirit leads to confusion, and that Jesus abandoned his Church.
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- No, hell has not yet stopped Christianity.
- No, the Spirit does not fallibly and errantly lead. What I disagree with you concerning is that one may claim that one infallibly FOLLOWS - if that one is self exclusively. As I’ve noted: The Holy Spirit does lead. And does so infallibly. But there’s NOTHING to suggest that He ONLY leads The Catholic Church (in fact, there’s NOTHING to suggest that God leads ANY institutional, organizational entities - only that He leads PEOPLE). And you are making an entirely irrational premise: that if God infallibly leads, ERGO we MUST infallibly follow and God thereby holds such as unaccountable. Did God lead Adam and Eve? Infallibly/inerrantly? Of course (God cannot lead errantly). ERGO, THEREFORE, was it necessitated thereby that Adam and Eve INFALLIBLY followed? Nope, they did not! Did God hold them as unaccountable? Nope. You have a false premise, actually two of them: 1) God only leads The Catholic Church. 2) Since God infallibly leads, we have no other possibility but to infallibly follow - thus such is infallible/unaccountable. Both are entirely unfounded: biblically and logically.
- No, I’ve never remotely stated (nor do I believe) that Jesus has abandon His people. But, of course, He never promised The Catholic Church anything. He has no promises to it to “abandon.”
- Again, you seem to be confusing pride with truth, self evading examination with self being correct, you are confusing pride with infalliblity. Any can say, “I’m right so I’m right when I say I’m right - so ergo, I’m right - just accept it with docility.” It has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with self being correct, only that self desires to evade the question. IMHO, true teachers welcome the light and come into the light. They welcome - even insist - upon accountability and norming and examination and questioning. To them, truth matters more than their pride or power. IMHO, it is false teachers who hide in the dark, who just exempt self from accountability, who must demand that all just accept whatever self alone says with docility.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
and what did Jesus promise to His Church? how do you reconcile your theology with the One of the Apostles?
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wisdomseeker
Guest
you can say whatever you want since you can believe anything you want without any regard for the Truth.
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
That is good. Persevere in this and you will go to heaven.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
The problem here is that the CC teaches the Eucharist is the True Body and Blood of Christ. but protestants have not receive this Truth from God. why do you think that is? so either the CC doesnt have the Truth or you theology is false. which is it?
do you claim that your theology is the correct one by denying the Eucharist?
** Zech. 9:15-16 - this is a prophecy that the sons of Zion, which is the site of the establishment of the Eucharistic sacrifice, shall drink blood like wine and be saved. This prophecy is fulfilled only by the priests of the Catholic Church. **
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AmericanJosiah
Guest
Everything Sts. Paul, Matthew, John and Peter said.
Which, obviously, is NOTHING about The Catholic Church.
It “reconciles” really well - since it’s just verbatim what they stated.
How does The Catholic Church’s sole claims for The Catholic Church reconcile? Not well, since NO APOSTLE ever even MENTIONED it - in passing or otherwise, for anything, about anything, concerning anything. Not once. Ever. No Apostle promised it anything. No Apostle authorized it for anything. No Apostle said it alone was/is/will be infallible, incapable of error and exempt from accountability. No Apostle even mentioned it.
I think the opening poster here is confusing a The Catholic Church being correct with The Catholic Church circumventing that question for self alone and imposing instead the demand of self alone for self alone that whatever it says just be accepted “with docility.” Studied any of the cults? This rubric has nothing to do with self being correct, it’s just the circumvention, the evasion of the issue by self alone for self alone. I think there is a confusing of pride with truth, self evading examination with self being correct, pride with infalliblity. Any can say, “I’m right so I’m right when I say I’m right - so ergo, I’m right - just accept it with docility.” Obviously, it has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with self being correct, only that self desires or needs to evade the question. IMHO, true teachers welcome the light and come into the light. They welcome accountability and norming and examination and questioning. To them, truth matters more than their pride or power. IMHO, it is false teachers who hide in the dark, who just exempt self from accountability, who must demand that all just accept whatever self alone says with docility.
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