Question for Orthodox re: the upcoming Holy & Great Council

[1Tim215Mommy]

We know that all the First-Hierarchs of all the Orthodox Autocephalous Churches have been called together today through the 9th in preparation for the upcoming Holy & Great Council.

Speculation as to what issue(s) they will deliberate over. Who knows?

But my question to the Orthodox Christians is…

IF at the Holy & Great Council, our Hierarchs reveal to us that they had, in Council, decided that all Orthodox Churches would be, from that point-on, reunited with full communion with Rome (the Catholic Church) without Rome dropping their additional teachings which became the cause (&/or continuation) of the Great Schism - namely: supremacy/infallibility, purgatory, immaculate conception, filioque, etc. But with the ability to keep the same Divine Liturgy (but commemorating the Pope, like the Eastern Catholics do), keep the same Calendar, keep the same everything else.

IF that happened, what would your reaction be?

Would you remain under the Hierarchs or would you leave the Orthodox Church?

If you left the Orthodox Church, where would you go?

 

[Rawb]

I would join whatever (I imagine large) group was continuing the true Orthodox church and leave the bishops who had abandoned Orthodoxy. These are doctrinal, eternal issues, not just political or aesthetic ones.

If nobody had done so, and The Church had really succumbed to the gates of hell, then I would figure Christianity was always a flop, and I would leave Christianity. Probably for Judaism.

 

[Nicea325]

We know that all the First-Hierarchs of all the Orthodox Autocephalous Churches have been called together today through the 9th in preparation for the upcoming Holy & Great Council.

Speculation as to what issue(s) they will deliberate over. Who knows?

But my question to the Orthodox Christians is…

IF at the Holy & Great Council, our Hierarchs reveal to us that they had, in Council, decided that all Orthodox Churches would be, from that point-on, reunited with full communion with Rome (the Catholic Church) without Rome dropping their additional teachings which became the cause (&/or continuation) of the Great Schism - namely: supremacy/infallibility, purgatory, immaculate conception, filioque, etc. But with the ability to keep the same Divine Liturgy (but commemorating the Pope, like the Eastern Catholics do), keep the same Calendar, keep the same everything else.

IF that happened, what would your reaction be?

Would you remain under the Hierarchs or would you leave the Orthodox Church?

If you left the Orthodox Church, where would you go?

Whoa! I would love to receive communion at an Orthodox liturgy. It would most certainly make me proud to know we are one…again.

 

[Rawb]

BTW, the topics that will be discussed at the Council are mentioned in the opening address given by His All Holiness. You can read the whole thing here: byztex.blogspot.com/2014/03/address-by-ep-bartholomew-to-assembled.html?spref=fb

I believe, however, that the bishops meeting is still just a pre-cursor to the true Council (which will not be ecumenical, there’s no emperor, but will be another all-Orthodox council similar to many others which have happened before). They’re finalizing agreements for the discussions at the Great and Holy Council.

 

[pablope]

BTW, the topics that will be discussed at the Council are mentioned in the opening address given by His All Holiness. You can read the whole thing here: byztex.blogspot.com/2014/03/address-by-ep-bartholomew-to-assembled.html?spref=fb

I believe, however, that the bishops meeting is still just a pre-cursor to the true Council (which will not be ecumenical, there’s no emperor, but will be another all-Orthodox council similar to many others which have happened before). They’re finalizing agreements for the discussions at the Great and Holy Council.

What does the “First Hierarchs” mean? and who are they?

 

[elizaveta01]

IF at the Holy & Great Council, our Hierarchs reveal to us that they had, in Council, decided that all Orthodox Churches would be, from that point-on, reunited with full communion with Rome (the Catholic Church) without Rome dropping their additional teachings which became the cause (&/or continuation) of the Great Schism - namely: supremacy/infallibility, purgatory, immaculate conception, filioque, etc. But with the ability to keep the same Divine Liturgy (but commemorating the Pope, like the Eastern Catholics do), keep the same Calendar, keep the same everything else.

There can be no true unity without doctrinal unity. What you have suggested is the acceptance by Orthodox of teachings that have already been deemed schismatic or heretical by the OC. In reality this would force Orthodox to become Unate Catholics. That would not be acceptable.

IF that happened, what would your reaction be?

Would you remain under the Hierarchs or would you leave the Orthodox Church?

If you left the Orthodox Church, where would you go?

Any Orthodox Hierarch that went along with this would be leaving Orthodoxy, so it would be necessary to find a different Hierarch that kept the true Orthodox faith and follow them.

 

[Peter_J]

I’m sorry, but to me this just seems like a lot of grandstanding and/or fear mongering. The idea that there will be a mass decision among Orthodox to become Catholic (or, I could say, “Orthodox in communion with Rome”) is equally as absurd as saying that there will be a mass conversion of Catholics to Orthodoxy.

 

[Rawb]

What does the “First Hierarchs” mean? and who are they?

The Patriarchs of an Autocephalous Synod and the Metropolitans of the Autonomous Synods.

A synod is a council of bishops within a local area. A parish belongs to the Russian Orthodox Church if their bishop sits on the Russian Synod, for example.

Autocephaly means a church is self-governing.

Autonomous means a church still has a connection to their Autocephalous mother church, the church responsible for the missionary activity that resulted in the autonomous church.

I’m sorry, but to me this just seems like a lot of grandstanding and/or fear mongering. The idea that there will be a mass decision among Orthodox to become Catholic (or, I could say, “Orthodox in communion with Rome”) is equally as absurd as saying that there will be a mass conversion of Catholics to Orthodoxy.

I agree. IMO the other thread on this is even worse.

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

I would join whatever (I imagine large) group was continuing the true Orthodox church and leave the bishops who had abandoned Orthodoxy. These are doctrinal, eternal issues, not just political or aesthetic ones.

If nobody had done so, and The Church had really succumbed to the gates of hell, then I would figure Christianity was always a flop, and I would leave Christianity. Probably for Judaism.

I figured this may be a response of most of us - leaving to join an Orthodox Church who’s Bishops in council have already condemned as heresy ecumenism.

on a side note: why Judaism over Islam? If Christianity were to turn out to be a flop (which I know neither of us believe), at least Islam at least accepts Jesus.

 

[Cavaradossi]

Autocephaly means a church is self-governing.

Autonomous means a church still has a connection to their Autocephalous mother church, the church responsible for the missionary activity that resulted in the autonomous church.

Just to clarify, autonomy actually means self-governing (auto - self, nomos - law), and it encompasses various arrangements in which the autonomous church is granted a certain degree of independence in its own governance. Autocephaly (literally, being self-headed) when spoken of a church refers to the right of such a church to elect and consecrate its own primate without receiving any outside approval, which also should have as a consequence that such a church is completely autonomous.

 

[KnitNut]

I would remain with whatever (I imagine large) group was continuing the true Orthodox church and leave the bishops who had abandoned Orthodoxy. These are doctrinal, eternal issues, not just political or aesthetic ones.

This.

And with all due respect to the Catholics here, when I read “I would love to commune at an Orthodox church”…well, you can. Become Orthodox. So often it comes across here as if the Latins are enjoying their in-house “supremacy” within RCism, and sampling those cute little novelties available to them via EC/OC. God willing, Orthodoxy will never become an interesting, quaint novelty within Her own Communion. I cringe.

 

[Rawb]

I figured this may be a response of most of us - leaving to join an Orthodox Church who’s Bishops in council have already condemned as heresy ecumenism.

on a side note: why Judaism over Islam? If Christianity were to turn out to be a flop (which I know neither of us believe), at least Islam at least accepts Jesus.

Because Christ is either a madman or God. If He is not God then his moral principles are better expressed by someone not suffering from a delusion, and so there’s no need for Him.

I do not believe Islam has anything holy at its center.

 

[Peter_J]

This.

And with all due respect to the Catholics here, when I read “I would love to commune at an Orthodox church”…well, you can. Become Orthodox.

We say something similar to Anglicans who say they’d like to commune in Catholic churches. (Well, generally speaking that is. There are some circumstances in which they would be admitted.)

So often it comes across here as if the Latins are enjoying their in-house “supremacy” within RCism, and sampling those cute little novelties available to them via EC/OC. God willing, Orthodoxy will never become an interesting, quaint novelty within Her own Communion. I cringe.

I’m not entirely sure what you mean, but it you may be onto something.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

This.

And with all due respect to the Catholics here, when I read “I would love to commune at an Orthodox church”…well, you can. Become Orthodox. So often it comes across here as if the Latins are enjoying their in-house “supremacy” within RCism, and sampling those cute little novelties available to them via EC/OC. God willing, Orthodoxy will never become an interesting, quaint novelty within Her own Communion. I cringe.

When the message of Vatican II is finally realized that the Catholic Church never wants to make those of the Greek (Byzantine) rite converted to the latin rite of the Church, and the Greek should not want to make the Latins Greek. We may be able to respect one anothers’ rite with charity especially during this lenten season. I’m trying here.

Yes it may take a little bruising and cuts along the way, before we get there. Even though the effort to remove the schism aludes us, God’s will be done.

Pray for peace, love and charity during our lenten season, especially for those Church’s who are suffering in battle kill zones of war today.

Peace be with you

 

[wynd]

And with all due respect to the Catholics here, when I read “I would love to commune at an Orthodox church”…well, you can. Become Orthodox. So often it comes across here as if the Latins are enjoying their in-house “supremacy” within RCism, and sampling those cute little novelties available to them via EC/OC. God willing, Orthodoxy will never become an interesting, quaint novelty within Her own Communion. I cringe.

I’m not entirely sure what you mean, but it you may be onto something.

Dzheremi had a great series of posts starting at #13 in this thread addressing this issue. I was going to link to a few individual posts, but there were so many I figured I’d just link to the entire thread.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

The Patriarchs of an Autocephalous Synod and the Metropolitans of the Autonomous Synods.

A synod is a council of bishops within a local area. A parish belongs to the Russian Orthodox Church if their bishop sits on the Russian Synod, for example.

Autocephaly means a church is self-governing.

Autonomous means a church still has a connection to their Autocephalous mother church, the church responsible for the missionary activity that resulted in the autonomous church.

I agree. IMO the other thread on this is even worse.

Just to clarify, autonomy actually means self-governing (auto - self, nomos - law), and it encompasses various arrangements in which the autonomous church is granted a certain degree of independence in its own governance. Autocephaly (literally, being self-headed) when spoken of a church refers to the right of such a church to elect and consecrate its own primate without receiving any outside approval, which also should have as a consequence that such a church is completely autonomous.

So autocephaly is a subset of autonomy (all autocephalous churches are also autonomous, but not all autonomous churches are autocephalous)?

Also, is autonomy a stepping-stone of sorts toward autocephaly, or are there a fixed number of autocephalous churches never to change, under which all autonomous churches will be subject for ever?

Thanks!

 

[andrewstx]

I hope they change the fasting rules for great Lent. THE way it stands now is that you can eat shellfish at any time.
But lobster crab and shrimp are expensive and I think not in keeping with the penentential spirit of fasting at all.

Red Lobsterand Joe’s Crab Shack just don’t strike me as penitential at all.

 

[dzheremi]

IF that happened, what would your reaction be?

IF that happened, I’d eat my hat.

 

[Nine_Two]

IF that happened, I’d eat my hat.

If that happened I would eat your hat.

I don’t have a hat.

 

[Rawb]

I have enough hats for us all to eat. If it happens, we’ll wait till Pascha, make a nice cheese sauce, and feast on chapeaus.

I’ve got a fedora, several newsboys, an an Indiana Jones replica that would go great with a nice alfredo. There’s one baseball cap if anyone prefers a beer and cheddar fondue.

Male pattern baldness runs in my family.