K
KCT
Guest
I’d love them and pray & sacrifice for them. At some point I might want to know why and how they came to that conclusion.
—KCT
—KCT
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Jake_Ellison
Guest
I wouldn’t say I choose not to believe. I realised that I didn’t I reasoned with myself and my current belief system developed. I never made an active desicion not to believe.A parent of a teen, and I was also once a teen myself
To re-state someone earlier - if DS came home tonight and says “mom, I no longer believe in God” I would say “Why?”
We are a talking, debating, discussing kind of family, so - the TV Teen response of “I just don’t” or “I donno” are not part of our real-life family.
We would talk about it, we would discuss, I would encourage him to speak with other people he knows and respects. We’d encourage him to study.
It is NOT wrong to question faith, it is part of growing up - and it happens more than once in an adult lifetime for many people. As someone once said, God has no grandchildren. We much each come to our own relationship with God. I WANT my child to claim and experience faith firsthand.
Belief is an act of will, like love. Faith is a gift from God. You cannot will yourself to have faith, you CAN will yourself to believe.
You are stating that you choose not to believe - and my question is…
- WHY?
As for why, I also would not respond by saying ‘I don’t know.’ That would probably be the least satisfying responce in my own head.
I have discussed the reasons I would use to explain why I converted in great detail on this site. To put things breifly, the first point I would make is that I didn’t turn from Christianity first. I didn’t stop being a Catholic and then stop believeing in God. I stopped believing in any kind of religion whatsoever. I’m sure you all have plenty of reasons why you are a Christian as opposed to a Hindu, but I really can’t see the difference between any religion in terms of evidence for that religion being true. I see faith as a part of human nature, and I see religion as the cultural manifestation of that basic faith. As various groups of people split apart their cultures developed independantly. Religious development too was independant and cutrally influenced. This lead to a wide varity of different religions.
Through history, different groups have had different supersitions and beliefs. Often these only change when won group is conquerored by another. Christianity has been fairly good at this. But if you look at how religion is past from generation to generation, you find that it is no different from any other aspect of culture. I have a different mind set from people in the middle east say. I have different cultural influences from people in the USA even, although our cultures are more similar because they split more recently, and havn’t been overly isolated from each other. My relgious influences have also been different. I was raised a Catholic by my Catholic parents. Had I been living in a Jewish family, and been raised a Jew, I do not think I would have beleived Jewdaism any less strongly then I used to believe Christianity. The general trend, with some execptions (like me) is the people share the religion of their parents, becuase they have been raised since birth in that tradition. So if I had been raised a Jew, and believed in Jewdaism, would I have been any more wrong then as a Christian? I’m sure I would have been able to defend my Jewish faith as strongly as I defended my Christian faith when I was told several years ago that religious people were ‘misguided.’
If I was asked why I was a Christian, 6 or 7 years ago, I wouldn’t have said because thats what my parents taught me to believe. I’m sure I’d have some explaination invloving Jesus and my personal experence of God in my life. Had I been a Jew I doubt my response would have been ‘because my parents are Jewish.’
Thats how began to veiw religion. And that got my thinking. How do I know Christianity is right? How can I be so sure? Everyone else seems to be sure that their religion is right.
(cont next post)
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Jake_Ellison
Guest
(cont. from previous post)
Thats how began to veiw religion. And that got my thinking. How do I know Christianity is right? How can I be so sure? Everyone else seems to be sure that their religion is right.
I then began to think about why religion exist then. If its wrong, why is it here? I’m sure you must agree with me that religious beliefs can develop and be wrong. You believe God is eternally, but Christianity did not exist from the begining of human religious existance. Nor did Jewdaism from which Christianity developed. Anchient Eygptian religions may be scorned now, you’d be laughed at if you suggested the sun was pulled across the sky in a chariot or on the back of a scarab bettle. But thousands of people believed that. Greek Gods, Roman Gods, Norse Gods, all of these came from that basic human nature. Once we gain awarness evolutionarily speaking, and once we develop language and begin to share ideas, we begin to imagine. Its a useful trick in terms of evolution. Gives us a much greater awarness of whats going on. You have a greater chance of surviaval if you can picture clearly the consquences or risks of your actions. A side effect of this, is that we start to wonder about our own existance. How are we here? Why are we here? We wonder how the earth got here. How the sun moves across the sky. We wonder about death. We can’t comprehened a time when our consciouness will be lost. We are afraid of death. Surely its not to great a leap before we start trying to explain all these unexplainable leaps. Ideas about an afterlife develop and become belief. For a soceity without as detailed a grasp of science as we have the idea of the sun moving across the sky on a sacrab bettle is perfect. It works. How can you deny it? Religion fills in the gaps and quashes our fears. We don’t like the thought that bad people can lead happy lives and good people can lead sad ones and still have the same ultimate distination? Heaven and hell deals with that. Religion provides a great comfort.
But none of that makes it right. It just shows how easy it is for humans to believe in things that don’t exist. You know this as well. You know that some people honestly believe in all the Hindu Gods or even that some people honestly believe in fairies or other mythical creatures. We even know how to convince people that things exist when we know they don’t. I believed in Father Christmas when I was little. It is is very important, that at that vulrable stage in our life where we could easily have been killed,
when we lived in the wild at the mercy of predators, that we trusted our parents totally. No use trying to find out for ourselves why exactly it was dangerous outside the cave. That could be fatal. Of course as I grew older I realised that my parents actually didn’t believe in Father Christmas. The evidence against him was overwhelming. There was no way I could sustain my irrational childhood belief. But I sustainted my equally irrational belief in God. My parents clearly do. The preist does. All these adults who really believed provided me with an evidence base. However, thats not real evidence. Any Jewish child going to the synagoge will have the same basis. And also, I never quesitoned the rationality of my faith. I just believed. What reason did I have not to?
Obviously now I have questioned my faith. I’ve done alot of thinking. Faith in God is not something I can rationally believe in, and I see no evidence as to why I should.
Apologises about the length of this post, I know I said brief, but like I said, I’ve thought allot. I hope I make sence throughout, but I’m dyslexic so sometimes my sentences might not be that well formed. Please pick me up on anything you disagree with or want me to clarify. I hope that gives you some idea of WHY.
Thats how began to veiw religion. And that got my thinking. How do I know Christianity is right? How can I be so sure? Everyone else seems to be sure that their religion is right.
I then began to think about why religion exist then. If its wrong, why is it here? I’m sure you must agree with me that religious beliefs can develop and be wrong. You believe God is eternally, but Christianity did not exist from the begining of human religious existance. Nor did Jewdaism from which Christianity developed. Anchient Eygptian religions may be scorned now, you’d be laughed at if you suggested the sun was pulled across the sky in a chariot or on the back of a scarab bettle. But thousands of people believed that. Greek Gods, Roman Gods, Norse Gods, all of these came from that basic human nature. Once we gain awarness evolutionarily speaking, and once we develop language and begin to share ideas, we begin to imagine. Its a useful trick in terms of evolution. Gives us a much greater awarness of whats going on. You have a greater chance of surviaval if you can picture clearly the consquences or risks of your actions. A side effect of this, is that we start to wonder about our own existance. How are we here? Why are we here? We wonder how the earth got here. How the sun moves across the sky. We wonder about death. We can’t comprehened a time when our consciouness will be lost. We are afraid of death. Surely its not to great a leap before we start trying to explain all these unexplainable leaps. Ideas about an afterlife develop and become belief. For a soceity without as detailed a grasp of science as we have the idea of the sun moving across the sky on a sacrab bettle is perfect. It works. How can you deny it? Religion fills in the gaps and quashes our fears. We don’t like the thought that bad people can lead happy lives and good people can lead sad ones and still have the same ultimate distination? Heaven and hell deals with that. Religion provides a great comfort.
But none of that makes it right. It just shows how easy it is for humans to believe in things that don’t exist. You know this as well. You know that some people honestly believe in all the Hindu Gods or even that some people honestly believe in fairies or other mythical creatures. We even know how to convince people that things exist when we know they don’t. I believed in Father Christmas when I was little. It is is very important, that at that vulrable stage in our life where we could easily have been killed,
when we lived in the wild at the mercy of predators, that we trusted our parents totally. No use trying to find out for ourselves why exactly it was dangerous outside the cave. That could be fatal. Of course as I grew older I realised that my parents actually didn’t believe in Father Christmas. The evidence against him was overwhelming. There was no way I could sustain my irrational childhood belief. But I sustainted my equally irrational belief in God. My parents clearly do. The preist does. All these adults who really believed provided me with an evidence base. However, thats not real evidence. Any Jewish child going to the synagoge will have the same basis. And also, I never quesitoned the rationality of my faith. I just believed. What reason did I have not to?
Obviously now I have questioned my faith. I’ve done alot of thinking. Faith in God is not something I can rationally believe in, and I see no evidence as to why I should.
Apologises about the length of this post, I know I said brief, but like I said, I’ve thought allot. I hope I make sence throughout, but I’m dyslexic so sometimes my sentences might not be that well formed. Please pick me up on anything you disagree with or want me to clarify. I hope that gives you some idea of WHY.
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Jake_Ellison
Guest
I understand this concern. It’s difficult for me because I like the preist as a person as well and I wouldn’t want to disappoint him. But I know I shouldn’t take communion, and I won’t continue to take it. I’m not going to being living in the same city anymore because I’m starting university in a few weeks. I think the delema I’ve had though, is that if I stop taking commuion I’d have to say why, and saying why is something I don’t want to do. So yeah, out of the same respect I’m trying to do to things, but unfortuantly they are mutually exclusive. If it wasn’t for the that that I’m going to uni anyway.One more thing, I admire the respect and concern you have for your parents. This shows you are not a brat
To continue to attend Mass out of respect for them says something about the way they raised you.
When you go to Mass, are you refraining from reception of the Eucharist? Out of that same respect, I would advise you to speak with the Priest - in the confidence of the Confessional perhaps - because to receive in a state of disbelief seems wrong.
Prayers for you!
Thanks for the prayers!
K
KCT
Guest
Not sure how you’re defining ‘respect’.
Would I like it? No.
Do I accept the fact that I can not decide for them? Yes.
Do I agree with them? No.
Do I love them? Yes.
—KCT
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Gamera
Guest
A lot could depend on how you present it to your parents. Consider these two approaches:
- “Mom, Dad, I’ve decided that religion is all a bunch of nonsense. How can you believe in this stuff?”
- “Mom, Dad, I’ve been thinking a lot about religion lately and at this point I don’t find the evidence persuasive. So I’m not really ready to say that I believe it.”
To answer your question directly, my first reaction would be panic – panic that my boy was doomed because I had failed as a parent. My second reaction, though, would be to remember that I was an atheist at age 18 too, but at 19 I realized that Christianity is true, so my child’s atheism might be as temporary as mine was.
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leonie
Guest
I would panic, too. I would be very sad and scared for my son’s soul.
I think you should introduce the subject gradually.
By the way, you are wrong.
Why don’t you keep praying–it can’t hurt, right?
I think you should introduce the subject gradually.
By the way, you are wrong.
Why don’t you keep praying–it can’t hurt, right?
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seekerz
Guest
I’d be devastated but would immediately try and find the reason for my child’s loss of faith. Maybe there would be reasons that I could help her work through.
Even if I failed to change her belief, I would pray tirelessly for a change of heart. Nothing would change my love for her and actually I would be driven to find more ways to express that love because a large part of understanding God’s love is experiencing love from others.
Ultimately though, parents have to accept that their children are individuals and have to think and make their own decisions as they grow, painful as that realization may be.
Even if I failed to change her belief, I would pray tirelessly for a change of heart. Nothing would change my love for her and actually I would be driven to find more ways to express that love because a large part of understanding God’s love is experiencing love from others.
Ultimately though, parents have to accept that their children are individuals and have to think and make their own decisions as they grow, painful as that realization may be.
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susie_g
Guest
I, too, would be devastated if one of my children told me that he or she was an atheist, but that doesn’t change a parent’s love for his/her child. It’s because we love you that we want you to know and believe the truth about God.
I think C.S. Lewis said something along the lines of “Don’t search for God if you don’t believe in Him. Just search for truth, and He will find you.” Something like that. If I thought my child was searching for truth, then I might not worry so much. God is truth, and He wants to be found.
God bless you, Jake.
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Rob_s_Wife
Guest
No, you do not EVER have to say why you are not receiving Eucharist. That is a matter strictly between you, a priest shoudl you go to confession, and God. You do not have to confess your reasons to anyone else. I wouldn’t say a word about it, simply do what my dh does and stay int he pew in prayer position. (My dh isn’t catholic, btw.)
For that matter, have you considered going to confession with this? Yes, I get that you don’t believe. However, you are Catholic whether you like it or not (Once a Catholic always a Catholic!
) and this sacrament may help you to address your situation. Schedule an appointment with this priest who you like and respect to confess these sentiments of yours. Trust me. You will not be the first person he has had come to him with their disbelief and if he’s has good a fellow as you say, he’s not going to shun you or anything.As for me if my dc came to me with this I’d be disappointed, concerned, and I’d pray and talk to him lots.
My biggest concern would be not just a lack of faith, but a lack of following many church teachings, such as premarital sex, birth control, homosexuality, and other issues that the church teaches are wrong. If my dc came to me and said he didn’t believe in God - would it mean he doesn’t think those things are wrong anymore?
So I would certainly still love him and welcome him in my home. But there’d be lots of talks. And he’d need to remember that we didn’t stop believing with him, so he needs to respect our beliefs too.
**Honestly, my greatest injury would be that for 4 years he considered the conversation of everyone except the parents who have loved him since before he was born.
**
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Jake_Ellison
Guest
I’d say your wrong. This will get us nowhere…I would panic, too. I would be very sad and scared for my son’s soul.
I think you should introduce the subject gradually.
By the way, you are wrong.
Why don’t you keep praying–it can’t hurt, right?
Do you pray to Allah just incase your wrong about the divinity of Jesus Christ. Can’t hurt right?
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Jake_Ellison
Guest
Thanks, I’d agree that its important to phrase myself right.
Everybody seems to think that I’ll suddenly realise I’m wrong. I don’t think anyone here would realise they are wrong. Consider whether or not you could convert to atheism. That might give you a better idea of how sure I am in my beliefs.
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Jake_Ellison
Guest
Thanks for this post. I don’t think I have any reasons I need to work through though. I think I’ve made my decision.
J
Jake_Ellison
Guest
Its these reasons that are most problamatic really. If my parents really want my to belief in God for my sake, they are going to be not just disappointed, but worried.
K
KCT
Guest
Then just out of curiosity, how do you explain the complexity of the human body? They beauty of mountains and streams? Blind luck? Chance? —KCT
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Jake_Ellison
Guest
I really couldn’t decide to believe in God. I’d be lying to myself.No, you do not EVER have to say why you are not receiving Eucharist. That is a matter strictly between you, a priest shoudl you go to confession, and God. You do not have to confess your reasons to anyone else. I wouldn’t say a word about it, simply do what my dh does and stay int he pew in prayer position. (My dh isn’t catholic, btw.)
For that matter, have you considered going to confession with this? Yes, I get that you don’t believe. However, you are Catholic whether you like it or not (Once a Catholic always a Catholic!
As for me if my dc came to me with this I’d be disappointed, concerned, and I’d pray and talk to him lots.
My biggest concern would be not just a lack of faith, but a lack of following many church teachings, such as premarital sex, birth control, homosexuality, and other issues that the church teaches are wrong. If my dc came to me and said he didn’t believe in God - would it mean he doesn’t think those things are wrong anymore?
So I would certainly still love him and welcome him in my home. But there’d be lots of talks. And he’d need to remember that we didn’t stop believing with him, so he needs to respect our beliefs too.
**Honestly, my greatest injury would be that for 4 years he considered the conversation of everyone except the parents who have loved him since before he was born.
The Medicle degree is just a start. Like I said ‘I intend to do as much for other people as I can.’ I really want to do good in this world.
I would obviously disagree about the lack of evidence for evolution. The biblical version of creation has no evidence.
Maybe I should have spoken to my parents first. I guess that why I’m talking to you guys now.
Life does have a way of changing peoples opionions. It certainly changed mine. Of course, if I ever convert back, I come here first.
I wouldn’t respond by saying ‘I don’t know’ because thats not true. I do know.
Thanks for the communion advice. Of course its easier to say you don’t have to say anything then it is to put that in practise. But even if I said nothing. What will they assume? What would you assume?
I wouldn’t expect my preist to shun me. I do think he’d be dissapointed. He wouldn’t say that, but I know him as a person. Its not an issue of me not trusting him or anything like that. And yes, once a Catholic, always a Catholic. But doesn’t the church lay claim to every member of the human race in varying degrees? Obviously I don’t believe in a supernatural link between me and the church.
I don’t think premarital sex or homosexuality is wrong. I had difficulty accepting either of those were wrong before I lost my faith. I have my reasons for this. I’ve always thought Natural Law was a bit of a cop out. Whole new conversation opeinging up here…
I would be welcome to talk. I’d be happy to have rational conversations with my parents. I fully respect their beliefs.
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Jake_Ellison
Guest
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HouseArrest
Guest
Does one “practice” atheism? I mean do you decide to become atheist and then that’s it?
I would be sad and worried if my child decided to become atheist. I would hope that he would continue to study and read and then I would be hopeful that he would come back. The truth IS out there and I would think he’d figure it out eventually if he kept looking. Some arguements atheists put out there I suppose can be somewhat convincing but they do fall apart if you keep studying.
Of course you don’t believe that. But you did ask what I’d do and how I’d feel if my child left the faith and I am a Catholic, and so are your parents.
I would be sad and worried if my child decided to become atheist. I would hope that he would continue to study and read and then I would be hopeful that he would come back. The truth IS out there and I would think he’d figure it out eventually if he kept looking. Some arguements atheists put out there I suppose can be somewhat convincing but they do fall apart if you keep studying.
Of course you don’t believe that. But you did ask what I’d do and how I’d feel if my child left the faith and I am a Catholic, and so are your parents.
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