Question for protestants from a protestant

[CheesusPowerKid]

“complete relationship…”

Maybe not that April doesn’t have a “complete” relationship with Christ (she’s one of my best friends, and I know that she has a deeper connection with Christ than most people do) but maybe that the relationship could be deepened with Christ and completed with the body of Christ. The eucharist makes us PART of the body of Christ, it makes Him become physically part of us, INSIDE of us, and everyone who shares in that same eucharist shares in that same body of Christ.

 

[RyanL]

April,
I know this must be tough for you. If I may…

april_hosen:

Hmm,
The thing is I already have a direct relationship with Christ. And this is without the church.

I know you have a relationship with Christ, and I would never discount your love for Him or His love for you. You may consider it a different way…perhaps it’s time you stop ‘dating’ Christ through your church and ‘marry’ Christ in the Catholic Church. Yes, both have a relationship, but you can only receive Christ into yourself through the Catholic Church. If you can separate the lustful/sexual overtones and look at this on a strictly holy level, when you consume Christ in the Eucharist you are consumating your marriage to Him. This may sound scandelous to you at first (read John 6:66 - it scandelized many!), but if you step back and consider the writings of the Bible you will see this same imagery. (Gal 4:19"My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you" - this is imagery of pregnancy, the result of marital consumation). We are called to be the Bride of Christ - this is how. If you don’t have the Eucharist, you haven’t married Christ. Your relationship may be strong and full of love, but it’s not complete without the Eucharist.

april_hosen:

I’m a little bit afraid that if I do convert my relationship will become a backseat, to focusing on Priests, the Pope and Mary.I suppose the relationship depends on the person…but goodness, I am just scared out of my mind. Because I know if I were to do this then I would be completely alone. But Ikeep on hearing Gods voice.

Imagine being in Christ’s *physical *presence, and being able to see Him again and again! This is the Eucharist! If you have the Eucharist, you will never be alone. Besides, you always have all of the angels and saints along with you (Heb 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses…), guiding and watching over you. The Lord will give to you no more than you are able to bear. Trust in Him.
May the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you always,
RyanL

 

[elizabeth4truth]

april_hosen:

Hmm,
The thing is I already have a direct relationship with Christ. And this is without the church. I’m a little bit afraid that if I do convert my relationship will become a backseat, to focusing on Priests, the Pope and Mary.I suppose the relationship depends on the person…but goodness, I am just scared out of my mind. Because I know if I were to do this then I would be completely alone. But Ikeep on hearing Gods voice.

Dear April,

Remain in peace and listen to The Holy Spirit. He will guide you. Your relationship to Jesus will grow deeper, as you continue to reach toward Him. Your desire to please God, pleases Him already and the rest is His grace poured out upon you abundantly.

Peace to you,
Elizabeth

 

[Church_Militant]

april_hosen:

Hmm,
The thing is I already have

a direct relationship with Christ. And this is without the church. I’m a little bit afraid that if I do convert my relationship will become a backseat, to focusing on Priests, the Pope and Mary.I suppose the relationship depends on the person…but goodness, I am just scared out of my mind. Because I know if I were to do this then I would be completely alone. But I keep on hearing Gods voice.
Hi April!
Your relationship with Our Lord will never take a backseat to the church life, but your relationship with Jesus will deepen in ways that you cannot yet begin to imagine.

Priests will simply move into the place of your current clergy and fill the roles that a n-C minister simply cannot do. The Pope & all the bishops & clergy will help give you a sense of continuity and assurance that you do not have right now, though you may not realize it yet.

Mary and that saints will give you a deeper sense of family that has walked this path before you and who are actively interested in your race and pulling for you all the way as well as praying for you constantly.

Completely alone? My dear friend you will be anything but because you will make great new Catholic friends (every bit as crazy as we all are! ) not only on here, but at your parish church as well.

Finally, if you are hearing God’s voice in this matter then do you really think for a moment that He will leave you high and dry among us in a place where He has called you? Has He ever done that to you before? It’s not about us going where we are comfortable April, but about stepping out in faith to obey what God is calling us to. Isn’t anything else rebellion and disobedience? Let’s not do that…okay?

Maybe you should consider St. Peter getting ready to walk to Jesus on the water, huh? It’s all about obeying the gift of faith that God has given each one of us. Me- I’d be outta that boat in a flash and even if I started to sink…I’d be swimming like mad to reach Our Lord. Which of the two is really the more safe April?
Pax tecum little sister,

 

[april_hosen]

Eden:

Yes you do have a relationship with Christ in the Baptist faith! But you could have a complete relationship through the “bride” of Christ - His Church and His Sacraments -particularly the Eucharist.

That makes a lot of sense but at the same time, there’s something you dont know. My relationship with Christ isnt in a religion. Its bigger than that. Its more personal, more everyday, more profound than any religion. Its indescribable! But I’l try to give a peek. In my relationship with Christ, I KNOW that He is with me every second of the day. In that brush of wind my knees tremble not because its cold but because I know He was in that wind. I feel like have worth when I’m praying to Him because Iknow He’s listening to every word. Like I said before its indescribable. But I did my best !

 

[Mickey]

april_hosen:

That makes a lot of sense but at the same time, there’s something you dont know. My relationship with Christ isnt in a religion. Its bigger than that. Its more personal, more everyday, more profound than any religion. Its indescribable! But I’l try to give a peek. In my relationship with Christ, I KNOW that He is with me every second of the day. In that brush of wind my knees tremble not because its cold but because I know He was in that wind. I feel like have worth when I’m praying to Him because Iknow He’s listening to every word. Like I said before its indescribable. But I did my best !

Hi April!

It’s not to be perceived as either Christ **or **The Church. Rather it is both Christ and His Church!

 

[elizabeth4truth]

april_hosen:

That makes a lot of sense but at the same time, there’s something you dont know. My relationship with Christ isnt in a religion. Its bigger than that. Its more personal, more everyday, more profound than any religion. Its indescribable! But I’l try to give a peek. In my relationship with Christ, I KNOW that He is with me every second of the day. In that brush of wind my knees tremble not because its cold but because I know He was in that wind. I feel like have worth when I’m praying to Him because Iknow He’s listening to every word. Like I said before its indescribable. But I did my best !

Dear April,

Your description sounds very Catholic to me. At least I feel what you have described and I’m Catholic. You won’t be asked to have a different relationship with Jesus then you already have. That’s between you and Jesus. I think the difference you will see, is in your communion with Catholics, in The Body of Christ. Maybe it’s like being in a certain one of His many mansions?

God bless you,
Elizabeth

 

[april_hosen]

First off, I wanna thank you a million times over for trying to help me make this decesion !

RyanL:

April,
perhaps it’s time you stop ‘dating’ Christ through your church and ‘marry’ Christ in the Catholic Church.

Thats a very good point! But I have been married to Christ for 4 years.

“Yes, both have a relationship, but you can only receive Christ into yourself through the Catholic Church.”

Thats odd that you’d say that because John 3:16 says “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that so who ever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.”
Nowhere in that does that mention the Church…

 

[edward_george]

Hello April.

Firstly, I am happy for you that you hear the calling of the Holy Spirit. Surely, all of us will be praying for you to hear more fully that voice so that you might discern what is true.

Originally Posted by april_hosen
Hmm,
The thing is I already have a direct relationship with Christ. And this is without the church. I’m a little bit afraid that if I do convert my relationship will become a backseat, to focusing on Priests, the Pope and Mary.I suppose the relationship depends on the person…but goodness, I am just scared out of my mind. Because I know if I were to do this then I would be completely alone. But I keep on hearing Gods voice.

The thing I wanted to comment on is that you should heed the advice of the late John Paul the Great: “Be not afraid!” Your relationship with the Lord will be deepened by the clergy and especially the Mother of God pointing the way. In my area, there are many Churches such as Church of God, Assemblies of God, and others–especially the non-denominational ones–that are notable to consider because they are so centered on who is preaching. If you turn on the Trinity Broadcasting Network (which I do for the perspective occasionally…I usually switch back to EWTN or turn the TV off after a few minutes), you will see these charismatic preachers leading their congregations to tears, speaking about anything and everything, with much emotion and fervor. If you come to a Catholic Church, you will see…well…God. The Lamb of God. God with us. I feel that the reason a lot of people have joined churches like the more preacher-centered ones is that they are attracted to the pastors–there is a Church of God near here that seats over a thousand people.

The point I try to make through all of this is that in the Catholic Church, God Himself is actually present at every liturgy–that is to say, the Mass is not centered entirely on preaching (although that is an integral part of it, part of the traditions of the apostles). The Eucharistic sacrifice is the whole reason I go to Church every Sunday. It’s not the preaching (which is sometimes good, but not always…), it’s the fact that I will receive the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. It’s the fact that the King of Kings Himself would humble himself that I might live forever. This is the most personal relationship you can have with Christ–be a part of Him through communion, and receive Him within yourself. We feel God’s presence in everything, but we can know that He is truly and fully there before us at every Mass, before us, and within us.

In short, there is more to what God commanded us to do than proclaiming the Word. That is very important, but it’s not the whole show, if you will. He also said “Do this in memory of me” when he instituted the Eucharist and “Whoever does not eat my body and drink my blood has no life within him.” I go to the Mass not just to hear the Word of God, but to receive the life-giving sacrifice that is the Word made flesh.

Good luck on your journey to heed God’s call

Veni Sancte Spiritus
-ACEGC

 

[Shlemele]

Another thing that is important if you are going Catholic make sure you know what you are getting yourself into. I don’t mean that in a bad way just that the Catholic church isn’t as fluid as the protestant churches you are used to. The position of the Catholic church is that the church and God are indivisible. You have to take one with the other and agree 100% with everything the church teaches. This is probably the #1 problem for me. As far as faith goes I believe that one should question your churches motives for everything (hence I don’t think i would make a good Catholic, I don’t respond well to “because I said so” type laws).

Read not just the theology of the church but all it’s laws as well. If you are going to convert to Catholicism you have an added responsibility vs. someone born in the church. There are a lot of things that you have to be willing to accept because the church believes that it’s laws and Gods laws by design are the same. There are a lot of rules too so be aware of them, learn them and make sure you agree with them. Converting to Catholicism is not like switching between Baptist and any other Protestant church so while I won’t tell you it is bad to convert I will tell you it is bad to convert and not be fully aware of the decision you are making.

I believe no church is perfect, and the Catholic church is no exception. in reading your posts it sounds like you are having some difficulties with the idea that the Catholic church doesn’t differentiate itself from God. This is a big distinction from our perspective because we see the church as a gathering of believers, other than that it’s just a building.

Speaking from my perspective i found the Catholic church to be a bit cold. We all stood, say, gave the secret handshake (except me, they don’t tell protestants these things ) and read along in the misslete (sp?). I felt like I was reading a script and never interacting with God. Many Catholics find this a sense of comfort because you know every other Catholic is hearing pretty much the same thing everywhere. I fell like just another face in the crowd. I feel much more “in tune” at the services I grew up in. Sermons go more in depth and are longer, there is much more singing (more on this later) and the congregation is smaller.

In so far a s the music goes though I feel this is one of the few traditions i don’t see in the Catholic church. The Catholic church used to have such a great music tradition, I know I have sung many versions of “Ave Maria” and quite a few other Latin songs that originated in the church. Every time I have gone to a Catholic service all you have as far as music goes is someone on an acoustic Guitar and maybe a small chorus of 3-5 people. If you are lucky they will be close to in tune but the last service I went to this was not the case. For someone trained in choral music it’s like nails on a chalk board. :bigyikes: The last part isn’t so much a reason no to join but rather my own observation. So as not to hijack the thread I’ll start my own on it.

Anyways no to drag on too long but I felt the need to even out the Protestant / Catholic balance in the thread. May God guide you in your decision process and guide you down the path he has chosen for you to take, no matter where it leads.

 

[Delgadoajj]

Shibboleth:

Congratulations!!! I’ve read many of your posts in the past. I am a fervent Catholic, and I pray to God your journey doesn’t stop here. I am so happy for you.

With much admiration,

Jorge.

 

[MariaG]

April,

As a convert/revert I wanted to try to explain the closeness of the Eucharist.

Remember the day you got down on your knees and gave you life to Christ 4 years ago? Awesome day right? Receiving the Eucharist is like doing that every single time you receive Christ into your heart. Only it is not just into you spiritual heart it is your physical body as well. That first love and joy just pours over me every single time.

Please understand, people don’t doubt your deep relationship with Christ that you have now, we are just trying to explain how much more you can have.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria

 

[Mickey]

Just remember April, on your journey, many will try to scare you from becoming Catholic (as Shlemele attempted to do). Listen to the Holy Spirit and you will be fine.

 

[Eden]

Schlemele, do you find the “because I said so type laws” from God (such as the 10 Commandments) troublesome?

This is a big distinction from our perspective because we see the church as a gathering of believers, other than that it’s just a building. (Schlemele) -** You are correct, the church is not just a building to us. It’s the “bride of Christ”. The “Church” is the deposit of faith left to us by Jesus Christ, the traditions, the apostolic successors and all of its members. “Church” to Catholics is not a building. It’s an idea. Like if I say to you “Stars and Stripes” - you understand the whole host of ideas behind that image- freedom, democracy, etc. The word “Church” for Catholics has a symbolic meaning.**

"Secret handshake"? It’s called the “Sign of Peace” or the “Kiss of Peace” and is an ancient traditional Christian greeting in which one says, “Peace be with you”. We shake hands with those around us before receiving communion, “If therefore thou offer thy gift at the altar, and there thou remember that thy brother hath anything against thee; leave there thy offering before the altar, and go first to be reconciled to thy brother: and then coming thou shalt offer thy gift.” Not only is it a symbolic reminder to “make peace” with those we may have offended but these are also the words of Christ, "‘Peace be with you’ is the greeting that Jesus gives to his disciples when he comes and stands among them in today’s Gospel, and he repeats the phrase as the disciples rejoice when they recognise him on that first Easter Sunday evening. He uses an identical greeting when he comes to them again eight days later. Earlier, in the course of his farewell address to his closest friends before his passion and death, Jesus had told them not to let their hearts be troubled at his going away: ‘Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you’; but he added ‘not as the world gives do I give to you’(Jn. 14:27). Again, he says to them, ‘I have said this to you so that you may have peace.’(Jn. 16:33) I really don’t understand how this could be a source of amusement to a Christian.

I think it’s quite mean-spirited of you to make fun of “out of tune” singers at the Mass. They volunteer to sing because they love praising the Lord not because they are rehearsing for “American Idol”.

I think it would be quite difficult to go into a Catholic Mass and experience it’s beauty when one has “left their charity” at the door.

 

[CheesusPowerKid]

Remember that April is making a big step here, so let’s let her hear what everyone has to say, especially Schlemele…I think it’s good to rebuttle, but let’s not do it so harshly…let them have their opinion too

Not to offend anyone, but I think it’s good to keep this very balanced for April’s sake

 

[Shlemele]

Ok I’ll keep this short as to not hijack the thread. I do feel like I need to defend my beliefs being that this thread was started by a protestant so other protestants could voice their reservations.

Schlemele, do you find the “because I said so type laws” from God (such as the 10 Commandments) troublesome

I never said Gods laws I said the laws of the Catholic church. I see a distinction, you don’t. I see that the 10 commandments are in the bible (Gods laws) I see that a Catholic has to believe that all decisions regarding spirituality made my the pope are seen as “perfect and Infallible” (the Catholic churches law). That is one of the things I wrote about. As a protestant I am advising another protestant that this is a mindset built into the Catholic church. I don’t see the problem here.

“Secret handshake”? It’s called the “Sign of Peace”

Yes I know, I was trying to keep the mood of the post light… hence the . I know the context of the passage, we offer use that verse at out own communions (let’s not get into the distinctions between the two, I think we all know and it’s best left to another thread). The idea I was trying to convey is that for someone on the outside it is a very intimidating thing, wither by process or design. I don’t know all these people and as soon as they turn around they won’t care about me (I have never had one of these people who offer a “sign of peace” actually talk to me at or after Mass so how is that a sign of peace?). Again I will reiterate I was trying to keep the mood light, but for someone on the outside it seems like you are the odd man out at an exclusive club, hence the “secret handshake” comparison.

I think it’s quite mean-spirited of you to make fun of “out of tune” singers at the Mass. They volunteer to sing because they love praising the Lord not because they are rehearsing for “American Idol”.

I may be harsh but I am not making a point to be mean, I am observing that worship seems to be slapped together at the last minute where music is concerned (at least at the parishes I have been to). When I was in high school I played bass for my churches services. We rehearsed and looked nice because we were there to worship. One of the parishes actually had someone in a Mickey Mouse shirt singing. They fumbled through the music like it was the first time they had seen it. They may not be planning to go to “American Idol” but maybe if they put forth the same effort I would feel differently. I’m sure it isn’t this way at all parishes but all four I have been to have been rather limited in their music. The point of that paragraph though wasn’t about that, I had made the statement earlier that music seem to be one of the traditions that has been looked over in the churches in my area. I have sung in Latin for years and some of my favorite pieces are religious music that originated from the Catholic church. The point I was trying to make was not that music in the Catholic church stinks, it was that the choral tradition seems to have been lost. Again I’m talking about my experience. If you have a church that has a strong choral department count yourself blessed.

Again I’m not going to hijack this thread but rather felt that I needed to defend my opinions. I’ll start another if you want to go over the whole choral tradition part. I do stand by my belief though, that while praising the lord is open to all those in a position of leadership should at least make some sort of effort to prepare themselves for worship.

 

[CheesusPowerKid]

"I see that a Catholic has to believe that all decisions regarding spirituality made my the pope are seen as “perfect and Infallible” (the Catholic churches law). "

actually, this is a really common misconseption…the pope has only made two infallible statements in the last 100 years…and by all means! definitely, absolutely, of course! not everything he says is infallbile, he’s human, and we hold him on no plane even close to God, he is the leader of our church, “the servent of the servents of God…”

again, not offending, just correcting

 

[april_hosen]

Shlemele:

Another thing that is important if you are going Catholic make sure you know what you are getting yourself into. I don’t mean that in a bad way just that the Catholic church isn’t as fluid as the protestant churches you are used to. The position of the Catholic church is that the church and God are indivisible. You have to take one with the other and agree 100% with everything the church teaches. This is probably the #1 problem for me. As far as faith goes I believe that one should question your churches motives for everything (hence I don’t think i would make a good Catholic, I don’t respond well to “because I said so” type laws).

Read not just the theology of the church but all it’s laws as well. If you are going to convert to Catholicism you have an added responsibility vs. someone born in the church. There are a lot of things that you have to be willing to accept because the church believes that it’s laws and Gods laws by design are the same. There are a lot of rules too so be aware of them, learn them and make sure you agree with them. Converting to Catholicism is not like switching between Baptist and any other Protestant church so while I won’t tell you it is bad to convert I will tell you it is bad to convert and not be fully aware of the decision you are making.

I believe no church is perfect, and the Catholic church is no exception. in reading your posts it sounds like you are having some difficulties with the idea that the Catholic church doesn’t differentiate itself from God. This is a big distinction from our perspective because we see the church as a gathering of believers, other than that it’s just a building.

Speaking from my perspective i found the Catholic church to be a bit cold. We all stood, say, gave the secret handshake (except me, they don’t tell protestants these things ) and read along in the misslete (sp?). I felt like I was reading a script and never interacting with God. Many Catholics find this a sense of comfort because you know every other Catholic is hearing pretty much the same thing everywhere. I fell like just another face in the crowd. I feel much more “in tune” at the services I grew up in. Sermons go more in depth and are longer, there is much more singing (more on this later) and the congregation is smaller.

In so far a s the music goes though I feel this is one of the few traditions i don’t see in the Catholic church. The Catholic church used to have such a great music tradition, I know I have sung many versions of “Ave Maria” and quite a few other Latin songs that originated in the church. Every time I have gone to a Catholic service all you have as far as music goes is someone on an acoustic Guitar and maybe a small chorus of 3-5 people. If you are lucky they will be close to in tune but the last service I went to this was not the case. For someone trained in choral music it’s like nails on a chalk board. :bigyikes: The last part isn’t so much a reason no to join but rather my own observation. So as not to hijack the thread I’ll start my own on it.

Anyways no to drag on too long but I felt the need to even out the Protestant / Catholic balance in the thread. May God guide you in your decision process and guide you down the path he has chosen for you to take, no matter where it leads.

Wow!
Thank you so much for the feed back! I think your the first actual protestant to answer my question. The Catholic posts awesome too. Thank you all so much!

 

[Pax]

April,

I detect a certain ambivalence in your posts. On the one hand, you believe that you have “the” relationship with Jesus Christ, but on the other you are attracted to the Catholic Church. Please be advised that the combination of the two is a bond made in heaven. The Eucharist is the source and summit of the Catholic faith and all else pales in comparison. The things that make you nervous need not be matters of concern when viewed in their proper perspective.

I like to compare God’s plan for mankind to a symphony. Every piece, player, and note of music is combined into a beautiful work. So also every thread in a fine tapestry completes an awesome picture. God has worked His plan of creation and salvation the same way. Our savior Jesus is the focus and every piece of the divine plan points to Jesus and the glory, power, and majesty of the Trinity. The Church, Mary, the Saints, you, and all of the living who love God and follow Jesus are points of light in this work of divine love.

Everything Catholic gives greater glory, honor, and praise to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Jesus died to save us, but He also lived to establish His Church and to give us His precious body, blood, soul, and divinity within the Eucharist.

I have been a Catholic all my life and have always considered myself to be deeply rooted in Christ. I went through what Catholics sometimes call “a second conversion.” The Holy Spirit touched the deepest part of my heart and soul for the purpose of turning everything in my life over to the Church which is the body of Christ. I was at a cross roads, and by the grace of God I held nothing back. I completely submitted myself to God through Christ’s Church and admitted that my puny wisdom was nothing in comparison to that of the 2000 year old Church that was established by Christ himself. It was then that I fully appreciated what Jesus meant when he said “the truth will set you free.”[John 8:32]

 

[Shlemele]

I apologize if I was unclear, I know this is a rare thing and there is much I don’t know about the exact ceremonies. The fact though that a human can through process to make a decision that is infallible is a problem for me, no matter if it’s done once a millennium or once a week.

For me it’s not so much that this is exercised it is that it exists in the law of the Catholic church. I know popes are human and that they make mistakes, history is full of church leaders on all sides making horrible choices and though rare and improbable from the protestant perspective there is a chance that “man made” ( in origin) laws could attain the same level as the law of God.

I’m not trying to offend, just stating a reservation I have. Again I know this isn’t something the Pope has used much in the last century but it’s not that is has been used, it is that it can be used.