Question for protestants from a protestant

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**April, I don’t know if you know this but the New Testament that you read (minus the books taken out by Reformers) was accepted at a Synod 360 years after Jesus’ death and resurrection. All of the books in your Bible are in there because they were determined to be divine Scriptures by Catholic Bishops. **Yes. Catholic Bishops had the authority to determine which Scriptures were inspired:

The first council that accepted the present New Testament canon was the Synod of Hippo Regius in North Africa (393 A.D.); however, the acts of the council are lost. A brief summary of the acts was read at and accepted by the third Synod of Carthage.Canon 24. Besides the canonical Scriptures, nothing shall be read in church under the name of divine Scriptures. Moreover, the canonical Scriptures are these: [then follows a list of Old Testament books]. The [books of the] New Testament: the Gospels, four books; the Acts of the Apostles, one book; the Epistles of Paul, thirteen; of the same to the Hebrews; one Epistle; of Peter, two; of John, apostle, three; of James, one; of Jude, one; the Revelation of John. Concerning the confirmation of this canon, the transmarine Church shall be consulted. On the anniversaries of martyrs, their acts shall also be read. According to Zahn, in 419 another Synod held at Carthage gave the concluding words in the following form:

… Fourteen Epistles of Paul … the Revelation of John, one book. Let this be sent to our brother and fellow-bishop, Boniface [of Rome], and to the other bishops of those parts, that they may confirm this canon, for these are the things that we have received from our fathers to be read in church.
 
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Shibboleth:
I am just excited about joining a Church with a valid line of Apostolic Succession.
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Congratulations! In these true particular Orthodox Churches, Christ is truly present, body, blood, soul, and divinity in the Holy Eucharist. You will be abundantly blessed by the grace of the Blessed Sacrament.

Now, when you figure out the cogent Orthodox reply to the why Pope Leo did not, in the view of the bishops of Chalcedon, have primacy of jurisdiction (ratification authority over the canons of Chalcedon), perhaps you can let me know. 😉
 
Well hmm,

You Catholics have been absolutely amazing in convincing me that Catholicsm is the way to go. Genuinly I thank you! You have actually spent time from your lives to consider me, and that is the definition of service. So good on ya for that. But the crazy thing is when I made this thread it was for protestants to tell me why they were still protestant. I’ve gotten a few responses from them that I am greatful for as well. But mostly its just ya’ll Catholics. Granted Iam on a Catholic site! Again I’m thankful for your posts! 🙂 Umm so here’s my catching up!
Okay so my family is totally against any conversion to another religion. They arent anti- Catholic they just love me a lot so that dont want me to do anything dumb or that could be harmful. (To you parents: I’m sure you can understand!)
I am 16 years old. But please dont underestimate me by my age. I may be foolish sometimes but I am firm in my faith. Right now I’m just exploring my faith.

**Mercy Gate **Hi! 👋 I see the Eucharist as another way of worship to God. I dont know if you see it that way, but if thats your “interpretation” (there’s that word again) then I see nothing wrong with that. More praise to God!

**sonseeker **I actually agree with what you said. I may be the only one, but once again interpretations, interpretations, interpretations!

**scylla **Hello, and thank you for your post. If I may quote you, “What the Catholic Church’s beliefs and practices are based on are the beliefs and practices originally understood by the apostles and passed on down.” Okay. So the apostles believed and practiced what? And what were the purposes of the practices? Oh and one more question, where did the apostles get their beliefs ond practices from? Thank you for your time!

**Mickey **Hi, I really like your name! Thank you for your advice. Maybe its because I havent seen a lot of sonseekers posts but Idont think he’s coming off anit-Catholic. He’s just stating opinions and trying to back up his opinions with scripture.

**mercygate **Hello again! If you dont mind I’d like to quote you, " If you have a problem with the doctrine of the Real Presence, it is not the Catholic Church you have a problem with; it is Jesus Christ himself" Wow, are you angry with me? Or just frustrated? I do not have a problem with the Real Presence. I just dont believe it. In fact, the first time I ever heard of it was 2 weeks ago. I think the Real Presence is (like I said before) more worship for God.

**Contarini **You like everyone has posted have been very helpful and understanding so I thank you. Your right, we dont have to figure it out on our own but oddly enough (not always) we usaully choose to do without.

**Semper Fi **Hi! I’m actually going to a Mass this Saturday and I plan to meet with one of the priests there. Thanks for posting. Good luck in college! 🙂

**Edward_George **I think someone already recommended that book so I guess I should check it out. Like I said to Semper Fi the date is set for Saturday :)!

**Eden **Hi! Please excuse my ignorants but who is Synod, and Zahn? In fact could you rephrase everything you said? Sorry!
 
This is what I mean by, “The Catholic Church’s beliefs and practices are based on are the beliefs and practices originally understood by the apostles and passed on down.”

In Romans, Paul mentions a Pheobe, back in those days they knew who she was they understood her role in the Church.

If you look up on the internet Pheobe Romans Paul in a search engine you will see a variety of different views on her role and what that means, all just based on interpretation of the Bible.

So to kinda clarify I mean that in the Church we don’t argue over what this means and what that means as we already have an understanding that fits. You can look at Early Church Fathers and see how the understanding hasn’t changed. You will see a continuity in belief. It is not just some people picking up a Bible and figuring out what to believe.

I used to be part of Calvary Chapel and our deposit of faith was the understanding that Chuck Smith first decided to believe in. As an example, he doesn’t believe in speaking in tongues during services, I believe this led to the formation of Vineyard Church, who decided differently. Vineyard Church has their own understanding of the scriptures which will be passed on down from then on until someone else decides differently and starts their own.

I hope I explained what I mean’t and didn’t ramble on too much, I can ramble on some more if needed though, feel free to ask.

God Bless
Scylla

I believe the apostles, got their understanding of faith from Jesus, and He explained things to them.
 
April–
The reasons I posted earlier on why not to be Catholic are all trivial. But now I’m going to give you a very serious reason: you don’t believe in the Real Pressence of Jesus in the Eucharist.

The Real Pressence of Jesus is central to Catholic teachings. As you say you just heard of it for the first time two weeks ago, that may change, and I pray it does. I invite you to explore the Catholic Church further, and I welcome your attendance at Mass. But if after study and prayer you still don’t believe that Jesus truly gives Himself to us as the True Bread from Heaven, you shouldn’t join the Catholic Church. You don’t have to understand it, but you do need to believe it. That is why we say “Amen” when we recieve Communion, and if you can’t say “amen” with us, then you aren’t really in communion with the Catholic Church.

Read I Corinthians11: 27-29
Therefore whoever eats the read or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.

Don’t eat and drink judgment on yourself if you can not discern the Real Pressence of Jesus in the Eucharist. Ask God to give you the grace to recognize Jesus in the Eucharist if He wants you to join the Catholic Church. Don’t join until such time that you can discern Him there.
 
Maybe since your parents are not Anti-Catholic, but just concerned parents, they would be willing to do an exploratory class with you at a nearby Catholic Chruch? That way they could hear what you hear and bring up any objections as they go along. Just a thought.

God Bless,

Maria
 
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april_hosen:
Okay…
I’m gunna try to address this as best as I can. If ya’ll are mad at me afterwards then there’s nothing I can do about it, so here it goes.
The truth is we really dont know. We dont know what God really meant, because there so many theories and “laws” that interpret the same words differently. Did you know there are over 100 different interpretations or diffenitions in the dictionary for the letter ‘a’. No joke! So here’s my interpretation for that passage. What He meant is if you dont accept Me/recieve Me (all of Me) into your heart/soul you cant have a relationship with Me. Thats the very much so watered down version. I hope that made sense because it makes sense to me.
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Hi April (and especially Bill the Sonseeker).
It continues to amaze me that that anyone with all their faculties can conclude that the bread of life discourse is figurative when the very people who heard it took it literally and Jesus reiterated it many times in the course of the speech. Jesus never attempts to correct their understanding and unlike amny other places in the Gospels he doesn’t explain this to the apostles privately as it says in Mark 4:34 And without parable he did not speak unto them; but apart, he explained all things to his disciples. The whole nature of the discourse is take-it-or-leave-it and those who rejected and doubted were the ones who walked away. I don’t care what anyone says, this passage is so obviously literal that it’s one of the most common reasons that people come into the Catholic Church than any other. I’m convinced that some folks just plain don’t WANT it to mean what it does… Their loss.

Furthermore, that “figurative” interpretation does not at all fit the context of the rest of the NT passages, especially St. Paul’s Eucharistic discourse to the Corinthian church as I pointed out in post 68 above. To consider it figurative makes Paul crazy as a bedbug…something that we know is not the case. Clearly he believed it to be the actual body and blood of the Lord…and I have to agree with him.

April, let me suggest a great Catholic course that is available free from the Catholic Home Study Service. It’s called “We Worship…” and you can sign up for it here. amm.org/chss/chss.htm I’ve already taken it and it is absolutely great, and they are not concerned if you become Catholic or not. Take the course…it will cost you only your time.
Pax tecum,
 
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april_hosen:
**Mercy Gate **Hi! 👋 I see the Eucharist as another way of worship to God. I dont know if you see it that way, but if thats your “interpretation” (there’s that word again) then I see nothing wrong with that. More praise to God!
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Right on! But the Eucharist is not JUST another way of worshipping God; it is the chief way.

**

**mercygate **Hello again! If you dont mind I’d like to quote you, " If you have a problem with the doctrine of the Real Presence, it is not the Catholic Church you have a problem with; it is Jesus Christ himself" Wow, are you angry with me? Or just frustrated? I do not have a problem with the Real Presence. I just dont believe it. In fact, the first time I ever heard of it was 2 weeks ago. I think the Real Presence is (like I said before) more worship for God. **:rotfl: Man! I guess I got a little excited there! I wasn’t the least BIT angry! But the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is a key doctrine of our faith, so I tend to be passionate about it.

April, don’t be in a hurry. My best friend and mentor is an Anglo-Catholic bishop in the Episcopal Church. He has a saying: “You can make an overnight Christian, but you can’t make an overnight Catholic.” In fact, the Church itself will be very cautious about allowing you to make the promises you must make if you want to convert. This is serious business, and taking a couple of years to test the waters, to learn, and to struggle with the things that you are resistant to or you simply don’t understand is a GOOD thing. (But don’t take as long as I did: a couple of decades!) [What’s with this program that it won’t let me turn off the bold type?]
 
Hello April!

Tonight is my last night of posting for quite some time. I am taking an extended leave of absence. 😃 And you are the lucky recipient of one of my last posts! 😛 The quote I am about to post has been posted many times on this forum, but I will post it again. St Ignatius of Antioch was a bishop and a disciple of the Apostle John. He wrote some interesting things before he was martyred. If you cannot understand the clear language of John’s gospel in chapter six, check out what his disciple, Ignatius had to say:

**Excerpts from the writings of St Ignatius of Antioch. Born 50 and martyred in Rome between 98-117. Disciple of the Apostle John and appointed as Bishop of Antioch by the Apostle Peter. He was led to Rome in chains and devoured by wild beasts. **

From the Eucharist they hold aloof, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father in His loving-kindness raised from the dead…
IGNATIUS TO THE SMYRNAEANS

**Take care, then to partake of the one Eucharist; for, one is the Flesh of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and one is the cup to unite us with His Blood, and one altar, just as there is one bishop assisted by the presbytery and the deacons, my fellow servants. Thus you will conform in all your actions to the will of God.
**IGNATIUS TO THE PHILADELPHIANS

Good luck on your journey April, and God bless you!

In Christ,
Mickey
 
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Mickey:
Hello April!

Tonight is my last night of posting for quite some time. I am taking an extended leave of absence. 😃
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I’m sorry to hear that, Mickey, but I understand. I hope you’ll come back again when you’re ready! You’ve helped me out more times than I can count. Thanks! May God bless you on your journey. :crying:
 
Hi April,

I’ve been looking at the responses to your question. In fact I registered just to answer it. I am a Protestant who wonders why conversion to Catholicism would be necessary. I enjoy fellowship with Catholic Christians just as I do with other Protestants who don’t think the same way as I do on every doctrinal point.

I’m reading a book edited by Thomas P. Rausch, S.J. at the moment “Catholics and Evangelicals: Do They Share a Common Future?” From what I can make out from what I have read so far it looks like the contributors to it conclude that we do. Seems to me that when Jesus prayed that we Christians would be one he didn’t mean just the Catholics.

Given what others have said in answer to your question, it’s the Eucharist that makes all the difference. I don’t agree with the Catholic idea of transubstantiation. I’m not at all sure that Jesus meant that the bread and the wine literally become his body and blood in the Eucharist, any more than he meant he was a literal grapevine and that his Father was a vintner, or that he is a door or literal bread that comes down out of heaven. Still, I do feel that Jesus is present at the communion service - more present than many evangelicals think. I rather like Martin Luther’s idea of consubstantiation.

Judging by what Ludwig Ott writes in “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma”, the sacrifice of the Mass and the sacrifice of the Cross are identical (p. 402). So evidently Jesus is sacrificed again and again in the celebrating of the Eucharist. But the New Testament teaches that Jesus’ sacrifice for our sins is final and complete - once and for all time. Protestants feel uneasy about this point of Catholic doctrine because it reminds us of the repeated sacrificial system of the Old Testament.

There are other things I have serious misgivings about too, like the Catholic teaching concerning baptism (necessary for salvation). I’d feel very uncomfortable about joining the Catholic church but can still enjoy some things Catholics have written and, for example, the music from Taizé. We can disagree on the other stuff without being disagreeable.

corpus
 
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corpus:
There are other things I have serious misgivings about too, like the Catholic teaching concerning baptism (necessary for salvation). I’d feel very uncomfortable about joining the Catholic church but can still enjoy some things Catholics have written and, for example, the music from Taizé. We can disagree on the other stuff without being disagreeable.
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Hi Corpus. Welcome! I just wanted to clear up a common misunderstanding of Protestants on the issue of the Mass. It is a once for all sacrifice (not over and over again). Here is an article: catholic.com/thisrock/1990/9006chap.asp
 
Hi syllca,
I’m seeing the connection 🙂 . But sorry I’m just FILLED with questions! Okay you said, " I believe the apostles, got their understanding of faith from Jesus, and He explained things to them." Okay! Well wouldnt it bein the Bible then? I means pretty important!
 
Hi scylla,

I’m seeing the connection :)! But I’m sory I’m just FILLED with questions! You said," I believe the apostles, got their understanding of faith from Jesus, and He explained things to them". Alright, well wouldnt it be in the Bible?I mean that pretty important.
 
Hi Maria,
Oh goodness! My parents arent anti-Catholic but they have no intentions of exploring their faith. They know that every single one of their beliefs is Bibical so theyre good.
 
If you’re referring to the Eurcharist, it is-Jesus preached about it being his body and blood, and the apostles speak of breaking bread and drinking wine, and then of couse theres the passage you’ve been seeing a lot about those who refuse to confess-

“Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 30 Therefore are there many infirm and weak among you, and many sleep.”

I think the apostles thought that Transubstantiation was rather obvious and a given as well as it would be weird for them to write letters to each other, afterall, saying “Today we had Mass. We Transubstantiated the Eucharist. It was fun.” DUH! But we DO have a passage at least attesting to the Sacradness of the Eucharist, so much that they say “…whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.” Quite a nasty thing to be guilty of, and not a charge to be thrown around lightly! The Early Church Fathers seemed to be in agreement with them about the Eucharist, too! I suggest reading about what the Early Church Fathers had to say about the Blessed Sacrament here:

catholic.com/library/Real_Presence.asp

I don’t know about you, but the ideas of St. Paul, and the Fathers holds more weight to me than that of Martin Luther:thumbsup:.
 
Hi!

Goodness you sure did! You kinda scared me but its okay I’m over it! 🙂 I’m sorry I said it was just another way ofworship. I didnt mean it that. No worship is"just" another way to worship God, its a big thing. I understand what your saying about slowing down. I dont think I could really convert to anything until I was out of highschool. (2 more years!!) I know have a while to think this over and a lot more to learn.
 
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Mickey:
Hello April!

Tonight is my last night of posting for quite some time. I am taking an extended leave of absence. 😃 And you are the lucky recipient of one of my last posts! 😛 The quote I am about to post has been posted many times on this forum, but I will post it again. St Ignatius of Antioch was a bishop and a disciple of the Apostle John. He wrote some interesting things before he was martyred. If you cannot understand the clear language of John’s gospel in chapter six, check out what his disciple, Ignatius had to say:

**Excerpts from the writings of St Ignatius of Antioch. Born 50 and martyred in Rome between 98-117. Disciple of the Apostle John and appointed as Bishop of Antioch by the Apostle Peter. He was led to Rome in chains and devoured by wild beasts. **

From the Eucharist they hold aloof, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father in His loving-kindness raised from the dead…
IGNATIUS TO THE SMYRNAEANS

Take care, then to partake of the one Eucharist; for, one is the Flesh of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and one is the cup to unite us with His Blood, and one altar, just as there is one bishop assisted by the presbytery and the deacons, my fellow servants. Thus you will conform in all your actions to the will of God.
****IGNATIUS TO THE PHILADELPHIANS

Good luck on your journey April, and God bless you!

In Christ,
Mickey
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Thank You Mickey for your time and our posts! God Bless you!
 
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