Question for protestants from a protestant

[CheesusPowerKid]

Vaughn7107:

And remind me again why we can’t pray directly to God, since the whole point of Jesus dying on the cross was to take away the barrier of sin that blocked us from communication and a relationship with Him? Why ask for the prayers of Mary? Why ask for the prayers of the Saints? They don’t know you. They don’t know your situation like God does. Furthermore, they can’t do anything to help you. Why communicate with them (if that is even possible) when you can talk to the God that made you and knows what exactly you need for your situation. If Mary or a Saint can pray for you…since they don’t know your situation they could be praying wrongly…so I guess what I am saying is…God is the only one who needs to be prayed to. Praying to Saints and Mary just isn’t necessary.

Ryan

Hey Ryan!

How many times in Bible Study have you asked some of your friends to pray for you about a certain situation? How many times have you asked me? It’s the EXACT same thing! We are not “praying” to Mary or the saints to forgive us, to heal us, to answer us…we only ask for their included intercessions, their own prayers. It’s just another friend praying for you. And no, they do not know us better than God, of course not! But I don’t know you better than God, do I? Your friends do not know you better than God…yet still you ask for our prayers. Mary and the saints are great observers, watching us from their place with God in Heaven, and they can still pray to Christ for us even if they do not know us like He does.

When you ask Mary or a saint to pray for you, you are merely asking a friend to pray for you, just like you would ask me or April or anyone here to pray for you, there is no difference.

In Him,
Britty

 

[RyanL]

sonseeker:

The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). Do not all die?

Your commitment to your doctrine keeps you from seeing the plain meaning of Scripture. What do want me to do? Ignore what the word of God says just because it makes you feel uneasy. It is good to be made uneasy by His word. It is called conviction. I know that sin and its effects are not pleasant, but the statements made by God’s prophets, Son, and apostles are clear.

Bill,

You are failing to draw the distinction between “committed sin” and “inheritted sin”. Romans 3:23 is talking about “committed sin”. Again, is it your contention that SIDS babies and the mentally impaired commit sin?

RyanL

 

[Delgadoajj]

CheesusPowerKid:

How many times in Bible Study have you asked some of your friends to pray for you about a certain situation? How many times have you asked me? It’s the EXACT same thing! We are not “praying” to Mary or the saints to forgive us, to heal us, to answer us…we only ask for their included intercessions, their own prayers. It’s just another friend praying for you. And no, they do not know us better than God, of course not! But I don’t know you better than God, do I? Your friends do not know you better than God…yet still you ask for our prayers. Mary and the saints are great observers, watching us from their place with God in Heaven, and they can still pray to Christ for us even if they do not know us like He does.

When you ask Mary or a saint to pray for you, you are merely asking a friend to pray for you, just like you would ask me or April or anyone here to pray for you, there is no difference.

Just think of this:

Say that a mother (any mother) is baking a cake. She puts in the flour, the eggs, milk, etc., and starts mixing the ingredients before putting the batter into the oven. Then, her 5-year-old son tells her: “mommy, I want to help, I want to put an egg in there”. The mother, looking at the child with all the love in her heart and a smile on her face tells her son: “ok. let’s crack the egg and put it in with the rest of the batter, and mix it in there”. So, the child helped make the cake at the end. Was the additional egg necessary? No, it wasn’t, but it helped. This is the same thing that happens with our prayers.

We shouldn’t think of it in pragmatic, individualistic terms, we should rather think of it in terms of the Love God has for us.

Jorge.

 

[april_hosen]

Delgadoajj:

Well, April, what say you? Hopefully, some of the questions you had have been answered. I really believe that any apparent questions on “why not to become Catholic” can be answered. With a heart open to the invitations of the Holy Spirit, a mind ready to use the gift of reasoning, and a humble spirit, it can be done.

Love,

Jorge.

Hey Jorge,
What say I? I say converting is a great idea! But the timing is off right now. I still need to ponder, pray, meditate, and look into this for another two years or so before I do anything so drastic. So am I converting? Not yet. But maybe someday! I still have to read the Catechism (sp?)! But thank you all for explaining a lot of traditions that were a little fuzzy.

 

[RyanL]

april_hosen:

Hey Jorge,
What say I? I say converting is a great idea! But the timing is off right now. I still need to ponder, pray, meditate, and look into this for another two years or so before I do anything so drastic. So am I converting? Not yet. But maybe someday! I still have to read the Catechism (sp?)! But thank you all for explaining a lot of traditions that were a little fuzzy.

If you take an RCIA class, they should be able to get you one for free!

p.s.,
just because you take the class, this doesn’t mean you have to convert!

God bless,
RyanL

 

[mercygate]

april_hosen:

Hey Jorge,
What say I? I say converting is a great idea! But the timing is off right now. I still need to ponder, pray, meditate, and look into this for another two years or so before I do anything so drastic. So am I converting? Not yet. But maybe someday! I still have to read the Catechism (sp?)! But thank you all for explaining a lot of traditions that were a little fuzzy.

April,

You are a very wise young girl. I will keep you in my prayers. You are right: it IS “drastic.” Wonderfully drastic – to those of us who have done it. But, then, I took decades. OK, I should have done it sooner. But maybe not at 16 or even 25. Well, 25 would have been pretty good. The fact is, it’s different for each of us, and the Holy Spirit will give you the nod when he’s ready and when you are ready. Even so, by the time I was 20, I knew I was going to have to die Catholic.

In my case, the attraction to Rome came before the Second Vatican Council. But I think the Boss held me back because he knew I wouldn’t have survive the worst of the chaos that followed . . .

 

[april_hosen]

Delgadoajj:

Just think of this:

Say that a mother (any mother) is baking a cake. She puts in the flour, the eggs, milk, etc., and starts mixing the ingredients before putting the batter into the oven. Then, her 5-year-old son tells her: “mommy, I want to help, I want to put an egg in there”. The mother, looking at the child with all the love in her heart and a smile on her face tells her son: “ok. let’s crack the egg and put it in with the rest of the batter, and mix it in there”. So, the child helped make the cake at the end. Was the additional egg necessary? No, it wasn’t, but it helped. This is the same thing that happens with our prayers.

We shouldn’t think of it in pragmatic, individualistic terms, we should rather think of it in terms of the Love God has for us.

Jorge.

Hey Jorge,
Thats a good anologie, but at the same time it isnt. Realisticly if another “uneccesary” egg was added the cake would be off. If we were to use your annologie and relate it to our spiritual lives, well then Mary interceding for us would make us off. Sorry, just observing!

 

[sonseeker]

Delgadoajj:

I think that you’re just scratching the surface when making this affirmation, with all due respect.

If the blanket statement (all have sinned) is the case, then it would apply to Jesus, who is God. There is no one more human than God.

Sacred Scriptures have to be read in light of Church Tradition, whence they came from, otherwise it will be difficult to penetrate into Scripture’s true meaning.

Jorge.

Heb 4:15 says that Jesus is without sin. Are you saying Scripture came from Church tradition? Be careful.

bill

 

[Eden]

april_hosen:

Hey Jorge,
Thats a good anologie, but at the same time it isnt. Realisticly if another “uneccesary” egg was added the cake would be off. If we were to use your annologie and relate it to our spiritual lives, well then Mary interceding for us would make us off. Sorry, just observing!

I was thinking the same thing as well, April. Maybe that’s because my husband is a Chef! I get your point though Jorge. Perhaps you could say that the mother let the child stir the batter but the mother finished it off to remove all the lumps?

 

[april_hosen]

Eden:

I was thinking the same thing as well, April. Maybe that’s because my husband is a Chef! I get your point though Jorge. Perhaps you could say that the mother let the child stir the batter but the mother finished it off to remove all the lumps?

Good save Eden !

 

[sonseeker]

RyanL:

Bill,

You are failing to draw the distinction between “committed sin” and “inheritted sin”. Romans 3:23 is talking about “committed sin”. Again, is it your contention that SIDS babies and the mentally impaired commit sin?

RyanL

RyanL,

SIDS death proves that there is no distinction between sin inherited and sin committed. Not in the Scripture. Sin, “inherited,” or “committed,” kills. If a SIDS baby did not commit sin, then how is it they have earned the wage of sin? If a mentally impaired person has not committed, or will never commit sin, then how is it they will earn the wage of sin? That is twice now that I have answered your question.

Bill

 

[Delgadoajj]

sonseeker:

Heb 4:15 says that Jesus is without sin. Are you saying Scripture came from Church tradition? Be careful.

bill

No, it came from Church Tradition, with a capital “T”.

Jorge.

 

[Delgadoajj]

april_hosen:

Hey Jorge,
Thats a good anologie, but at the same time it isnt. Realisticly if another “uneccesary” egg was added the cake would be off. If we were to use your annologie and relate it to our spiritual lives, well then Mary interceding for us would make us off. Sorry, just observing!

April:

Thanks for the observation! In that case, the mother would know to keep the same proportion in the mix. God is infinitely wiser than the mother in this example.

Love,

Jorge.

 

[Delgadoajj]

Eden:

I was thinking the same thing as well, April. Maybe that’s because my husband is a Chef! I get your point though Jorge. Perhaps you could say that the mother let the child stir the batter but the mother finished it off to remove all the lumps?

Good finish!!!

Jorge.

 

[april_hosen]

Delgadoajj:

April:

Thanks for the observation! In that case, the mother would know to keep the same proportion in the mix. God is infinitely wiser than the mother in this example.

Love,

Jorge.

Jorge,
Glad to give it! Question: when you say mother which mother are you referring to? The one you made up or Mary? Which brings another question but I’m gunna have to start another thread! I’ll ask it anyway. Would you say God is wiser than Mary?

 

[Delgadoajj]

april_hosen:

Jorge,
Glad to give it! Question: when you say mother which mother are you referring to? The one you made up or Mary? Which brings another question but I’m gunna have to start another thread! I’ll ask it anyway. Would you say God is wiser than Mary?

Hi, April. I was referring to the one I made up. Yes, God is infinitely wiser than Mary.

Love

Jorge.

 

[Eden]

The mother in this case would have to be “God” and the child would be Mary or the saints. We could change it to a father cooking with a child to avoid the confusion.

 

[Delgadoajj]

Eden:

The mother in this case would have to be “God” and the child would be Mary or the saints. We could change it to a father cooking with a child to avoid the confusion.

The father - child case is more clear, where the father represents God, and the child represents Mary, the Saints, and us.

Thanks,

Jorge.

 

[RyanL]

sonseeker:

SIDS death proves that there is no distinction between sin inherited and sin committed. Not in the Scripture. Sin, “inherited,” or “committed,” kills. If a SIDS baby did not commit sin, then how is it they have earned the wage of sin? If a mentally impaired person has not committed, or will never commit sin, then how is it they will earn the wage of sin? That is twice now that I have answered your question.

Bill,
If death only comes to those with sin…why did Jesus die? Why did Enoch and Elijah not?
RyanL

 

[badebop]

Here were the clinchers for me (as a protestant convert) for accepting Mary…

Gen 1:15 “I will put ENMITY between you and the woman…”

Mary and Satan are in constant battle with one another, their hatred is so intense.

Luke 1:42 “…Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.”

Here we have Mary and the Saviour compared equally (with Mary getting top billing, I might add) as being blessed. How blessed would one be if they were as blessed as the Saviour?

Luke 1:48 “…behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.”

Ooooo, I do! Do you? If one ignores this prophecy does that make one a “Cafeteria Christian?”

Rev 11:19* “…God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of the covenant could be seen in the temple.” 12:1 “…a woman [appeared].”*

The comparision between the Old Convenant Ark and the New Covenant Ark was too much for me to ignore.

Plus, once I gave the Rosary a trial run, I discovered that it really does bring one closer to Jesus!