I never said that I believed the church is infallible, scripture shows that it isn’t.
It is fallible, because the church is the gathering of the “out-called ones” = humans. You believe that there are certain humans that are currently lead in a certain way that only they can experience. God does guide
all believers infallibly, but we don’t respond to His guidance infallibly. God is infallible, man is not. The Holy Spirit is available to all believers for guidance into truth, but not all believers hearken to Him the way they should, and some He is working on over time as they grow in sanctification.
You are I are not going to agree on the infallibility of the Pope nor the Magisterium, but that is off topic of the thread, I believe.
So what does it mean when we read in the Scriptures that " that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."
Or with regard to the leaders of the Church, that we must, “Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.”
While as Catholics we are reminded that as individual theologians or men, those who have rule over us, are fallible, and only when teaching or ruling officially in the office that Jesus gave them (and their successors) when Jesus laid hands on them and breathed on them, giving them the authority that only God has authority to do, are these just things we can ignore?
It would seem in Protestantism, generally what is taught is Jesus is the Head of the invisible Church, where the Bible tells us things we don’t agree with, like Jesus telling Peter he is the Rock, and Jesus will build His church on Peter, then gives him the keys to the kingdom and all the authority that comes with entrusting them to Peter. When the Apostles are told they can forgive sins or retain them. When the Apostles are told to make anmensis of Jesus. We are told by the Bible that Jesus is the Foundation of the Church, but we are also told that the Apostles are the foundation of the Church. All seemingly contradictory and therefore belief in the office of Peter and the foundation on Him and the foundation on the Apostles is either forgotten or dismissed.
Whereas the Catholic Church has taught from the Beginning that there is no contradiction. Jesus is indeed the foundation, and the keystone of the Church. Peter is given the Authority that Jesus alone could give him, and as holder of that office, acts in Christ’s name and by Christ’s authority when he acts within his office, (preforms the duties of the office officially) The Apostles too can truly be called the foundation of the Church, (the Bible tells us this) and the authority they have is once again given them by Christ, who alone as God can give that authority. (For the moment we must remember that the persons of the Trinity are in complete agreement, so what Jesus authorizes we know God the Father and God the Holy Ghost also authorize.)
We also as has been pointed out see in Scripture that when Judas Iscariot is dead his place is filled and the Apostles lay hands on his successor, showing that Jesus did not intend for the authority of the Apostles to die with the death of the last Apostle. St. Paul lays hands on those who become those who have authority over newly founded communities. Jesus says, “he who hears you, hears me.” to the Apostles. Paul, and Apostle, tells the congregation to submit to those he had laid hands on.
I don’t know, you tell me, but it seems that the Church that conforms to what the Bible describes is the Catholic Church. It alone seems to take what look like contradictions in the Scriptures and provide a way to explain how all can and are true.
). Then, if necessary, to the elders. If we still can’t resolve, we go to the circuit counselor, the district, etc. House is WELS, as I recall, but I would suspect his routine will be similar.