Question for the "gay" activists (including heterosexual "gay" activists) who say that Scripture doesn't condemn homosexual acts

[NeedImprovement]

I once asked a good friend of mine - a deacon who is 20 years my senior, why it is homosexual activists would feel the need to come and post at CAF . He replied that , “They are in constant need of affirming their lifestyle” .

The “you can’t force the bible on us stance” isn’t (only in my limited opinion) that plausible an argument . The more radical activists often reply to biblical arguments with “Stop judging me” and “You’re going to burn in Hell.” We see a fair amount of it here at CAF (before the mods are forced to pull or close the thread).

And of course, one of the things we, who try to take our Blessed Lord seriously, are accused of is being *homosexual haters *.They invented a label and called it homophobia - they aim it at someone, and the person runs off as fast as they can in the opposite direction ; but the politicians can outrun anyone on this one. . . . ( Except for Russian politicians it appears. They don’t play that game - at all . Let’s give them a little credit where it’s due).

The antics of the gay militant response fall more in line with the tactics of *the great accuser *. Their favourite tactics don’t involve too much rationale, it’s more a case of fingerpointing and (I’m trying to find a polite word for whining) quite noisily .

Even in Catholic circles , as I heard Fr. Real Frechette at St. Joseph’s Oratory here in Montreal, put it once :" Man was created in God’s image. Yet we human beings have this tendency to try and recreate God in our own image."

Hence, these arguments that begin with , "Well, I don’t think a loving God would. . . "

Rather than denying God’s existence , when we find a consistent behaviour in our own lifestyle which is incompatible with correct moral conduct , it is easier to modify our personal concept of the natural law , rather than to correct it, or , at the very least to admit that our behaviour is immoral.

This is more in line with how humans tend to deal with these things. We’re also very adept at making excuses for ourselves. And changing the interpretation of scripture to suit our imperfect view is consistent with all of it. Even other Christian denominations do this. For example , a particular sore spot for them is found in the words which our Blessed Lord clearly pronounced concerning His Flesh and Blood the Eucharist.

Another question mark about the “you can’t force the bible on us stance” , is that it is open to the suggestion that all homosexuals tend towards atheism. That is an error which simply isn’t true. Many , many homosexuals believe God exists (although the activists will likely be the last among them to admit publicly they believe) . Of course, homosexuals getting -]married/-] in a church, means they believe in a distortion of God .

Some of this is because their concept of sin is very weak - even from a relativistic standpoint ; it’s flawed.

When some of the activists wish to express their disdain for Catholics (it happens quite frequently on certain *other *websites) they resort to this expression , “get your self-loathing away from me” . . . . . . And I really wish they could make up their confused minds on that one : First they accuse us of loathing them, but later they resort to accusing us of loathing ourselves. Well which one is (isn’t) it ? If we really loathe ourselves , then we would even loathe ourselves a lot more if we loathed you . . . wouldn’t we ? .

“Self-loathing” can be a dismissal of conscience. But it’s the sin we said we loathe . . . isn’t it ? It is possible on occasion to become so discouraged with habitual sins that we actually begin to loathe ourselves, but any true confessor who got so much of a hint of that from a penitent , knows how to effectively help the penitent deal with it. We loathe the sin -

. . . I know that we are supposed to show love for homosexuals. Notice that I say “homosexual acts” and not homosexuals. Love the sinner, but hate the sin. . .

When we don’t own up to our sins , the tendency is to try and justify them - to say that they’re normal. In the Catholic world , we still have our fair share of dissenters and liberation theologians.As a parallel, there is a proliferation of books written by homosexuals claiming that Jesus was -]gay/-] and that his lover was most likely St. John the Evangelist. And the internet is absolutely awash with this bilge. That’s how depraved these things become when , out of fear or complacency, or through intimidation they are permitted to fester .

I also notice that certain arguments in these forums concerning homosexuality would conveniently have us believe that there are no Catholics, Christians who struggle with these issues . . . i177.photobucket.com/albums/w217/RubberDucke_20/smiley-channel.de_schilder160.gif

 

[livingwordunity]

Even in countries that have legalized gay marriage, homosexual people are still treated appallingly.

If that’s true then it proves that redefining marriage isn’t going to make things better for anyone. Thanks for sharing.

I disagree with that. Homosexuals ARE treated better.

You contradicted yourself. But here’s an interesting article on the subject that doesn’t contradict itself:

Just What is Behind These Suicides?

It is quite common for homosexual activists to blame suicide in their ranks on ‘homophobia’. ‘If we would just be more tolerant and accepting of homosexuals, these rates would drop’ they claim. But are these claims in fact true? The evidence seems to suggest that they are not.

A simple way to test this is to look at places where homosexuality is very much accepted, such as in nations like Holland, or cities like San Francisco. One would expect less suicide and other mental health problems amongst homosexuals in these places. But that is not the case. There is as much if not more suicide and related problems in these localities. So homophobia cannot be to blame.

As one commentator puts it, “Studies done in the Netherlands and New Zealand, for example, where there is generally high tolerance of sexual ‘diversity,’ found the same high rates of psychological difficulties as those done elsewhere.” A number of international studies have borne this out.

A panel convened by such groups as the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the American Psychological Association, and the American Association of Suicidology made this finding: “There is no population-based evidence that sexual orientation and suicidality are linked in some direct or indirect manner”.

A study published in Pediatrics entitled “Risk factors for attempted suicide in gay and bisexual youth,” examined 137 youths who deemed themselves ‘gay’. Says the study, “In this sample, bisexuality or homosexuality per se was not associated with self-destructive acts”. This study found that less than one in ten homosexual youths attempted suicide because of their homosexuality. Bear in mind again that attempts are always much more common than completed suicides.

But the myth that ‘homophobia’ causes high suicide rates keeps being repeated because it nicely serves in the overall cause of the militant homosexual lobby: to get mainstream acceptance of homosexuality. Indeed, by using skewed statistics, homosexual activists are seeking to win over societal acceptance.

Full article

 

[Aviatrix]

I did not contradict myself: They are treated better than they were before same sex marriage was legalized. The verbal (and sometimes physical) abuse they endure is still appalling and unacceptable. In what way is that a contradiction?

Gay people in San Francisco still run into the same issues. Perhaps not as frequently as they would in a firmly conservative area, but it still happens. I’ve said before that it may not be the exclusive reason for increased rates of suicide, depression and drug use, but I think it is naive to assume it has no bearing.

Edited for spelling

 

[livingwordunity]

I did not contradict myself: They are treated better than they were before same sex marriage was legalized. The verbal (and sometimes physical) abuse they endure is still appalling and unacceptable. In what way is that a contradiction?

Gay people in San Francisco still run into the same issues. Perhaps not as frequently as they would in a firmly conservative area, but it still happens. I’ve said before that it may not be the exclusive reason for increased rates of suicide, depression and drug use, but I think it is naive to assume it has no bearing.

Edited for spelling

We all have problems. We all have people who hate us. But the homosexual population continues to have a proportionately much higher suicide rate than the average heterosexual even when the media and culture bends over backwards to accommodate homosexuals.

 

[cwltexas]

We all have problems. We all have people who hate us. But the homosexual population continues to have a proportionately much higher suicide rate than the average heterosexual even when the media and culture bends over backwards to accommodate homosexuals.

Do you have ANY STATISTICAL / DOCUMENTATION to back any of these assertions up, from REPUTABLE, SCIENTIFIC STUDIES?

 

[Aviatrix]

We do all have problems and people who hate us. I disagree that media and culture bend over backwards to accommodate homosexual people, but perhaps that is an issue for another thread. Even if I am wrong about the last (and considering I don’t live in the US, my perspective is likely different), the experience of individuals can vary greatly to what “media and culture” purport.

 

[livingwordunity]

Do you have ANY STATISTICAL / DOCUMENTATION to back any of these assertions up, from REPUTABLE, SCIENTIFIC STUDIES?

A scientific study that finds that everyone has problems and enemies in life? That’s not something that can be proven in a laboratory. It’s something that is a part of life. Can you name one person who doesn’t have any problems or enemies?

 

[cwltexas]

A scientific study that finds that everyone has problems and enemies in life? That’s not something that can be proven in a laboratory. It’s something that is a part of life. Can you name one person who doesn’t have any problems or enemies?

You SPECIFICALLY POSTED THIS;

“…But the homosexual population continues to have a proportionately much higher suicide rate than the average heterosexual even when the media and culture bends over backwards to accommodate homosexuals…”

Do you have anything to back it up or not or is it simply YOUR OPINION that you have mistakenly stated as fact?

 

[GreatergoodGod]

My point is that the verses must be pretty darn clear to arouse such an extreme reaction from the “gay” activists who have called the verses “hate speech” and have even gone so far as to create their own Bible which omits those verses. Actions speak louder than words.

This is true, I think they called it the ‘queen James bible’ or something like that.

 

[cwltexas]

This is true, I think they called it the **‘queen James bible’ **or something like that.

This is SPECIFICALLY hate speech and I am surprised that it is allowed on this forum.

 

[NeedImprovement]

Well that could possibly be interpreted as an intolerance towards cultural differences which we often find in the good people in the land down under.

You see, in Australia , as here in Canada , it’s perfectly fine to use the word cra* (rhymes with “wrap”) . It means the same thing as in the US , but no one takes offense.

Additionally , in Australia, gays don’t want gay marriage - so I really believe the “hate” is in the eye of the beholder (accuser) on this one :

Despite near-universal apathy, if not outright opposition, from various community groups, segments and leaders, gay marriage is too often assumed to be an issue for gay men and lesbians in Australia.

It is not. The fact is, a mistaken view of the popularity of gay marriage with gay Australians continues to influence the debate.

When actually asked, for instance, as they were during the Private Lives Report produced by La Trobe University in 2006, most of the gay partners surveyed indicated that they had no intention of ever "formalising’ their relationships.

. . . Most of us would agree with gay rights pioneer Professor Dennis Altman, who recently criticised a few activists’ fixation on “gay marriage” and described the whole push as “self-indulgent cra*”.

heraldsun.com.au/opinion/gays-dont-want-marriage/story-e6frfifo-1111116319535

Hmmm. . . there’s that word which rhymes with “wrap” again - this time used by gay rights pioneer Dennis Altman saying that gay marriage is "self indulgent cra* ". I suppose following the accusatory trend of late it also has to be classified as hate speech . . . but against who ?

And homosexuals in France didn’t want gay marriage either, but I guess their president Francois Hollande has some kind of guilt complex or something , because he allowed the legislation to pass anyway . . . for who’s sake though ?

Nathalie de Williencourt, a French lesbian and founder of one of the largest homosexual associations in France, said in January that most homosexual individuals in the country do not want “gay marriage” or the right to adopt children.

“I am French, I am homosexual. The majority of homosexuals do not want either marriage or adoption, and we especially don’t want to be treated the same as heterosexuals because we are different,” she said. “We don’t want equality but we do want justice.

Nearly 15,000 French Mayors Will Refuse to Perform Gay Marriages

Now if I wanted to get the attention of a Catholic who referred to the -]queen/-] James Bible , I wouldn’t waste my time trying to say it’s hate speech against homosexuals - especially if homosexual activists are already calling the Bible hate speech . I would be more inclined to say it comes very close to a slur on Sacred Scripture . I think at that point, I might be making sense to them.

---

Somewhat remarkable though how someone who thinks it is so bad to judge the sins of others doesn’t hesitate in lighting up those accusations in big red characters, when the original post was just standard letters.

@GreatergoodGod : Hi from Canada. Aussies bring something good and solid to these forums and we need as many of 'em as we can get.

Cardinal Pell is a real trooper - with a sense of hunour to boot.

 

[livingwordunity]

My point is that the verses must be pretty darn clear to arouse such an extreme reaction from the “gay” activists who have called the verses “hate speech” and have even gone so far as to create their own Bible which omits those verses. Actions speak louder than words.

This is true, I think they called it the ‘queen James bible’ or something like that.

I just “Google’d” it, and that is what the “gay” activists are calling it. Thanks for bringing the thread back on track. The thread was starting to wonder off on a tangent from the original question in the OP.

 

[cwltexas]

“…Somewhat remarkable though how someone who thinks it is so bad to judge the sins of others doesn’t hesitate in lighting up those accusations in big red characters, when the original post was just standard letters…”

What I highlighted in big red letters was not an accusation, but the actual POST of the poster involved, their words, not mine.

 

[cwltexas]

I just “Google’d” it, and that is what the “gay” activists are calling it. Thanks for bringing the thread back on track. The thread was starting to wonder off on a tangent from the original question in the OP.

Can you post a link please to the Google you did, again, SPECIFICALLY?

 

[NeedImprovement]

Can you post a link please to the Google you did, again, SPECIFICALLY?

charismanews.com/opinion/35014-the-queen-james-bible-and-homophobic-interpretations

There are lots of sites - that one is enough.

Usually using caps or enlarged letters consistently is considered the equivalent of yelling - last time I checked.

 

[cwltexas]

charismanews.com/opinion/35014-the-queen-james-bible-and-homophobic-interpretations

There are lots of sites - that one is enough.

Usually using caps or enlarged letters consistently is considered the equivalent of yelling - last time I checked.

OK, THANK YOU, that was a blog, the direct link to the actual Bible is;

queenjamesbible.com/

On the website it says;

"Homosexuality in The Bible

Homosexuality was first mentioned in the Bible in 1946 in the Revised Standard Version. There is no mention of or reference to homosexuality in any Bible prior to this – only interpretations have been made. Anti-LGBT Bible interpretations commonly cite only eight verses in the Bible that they interpret to mean homosexuality is a sin; Eight verses in a book of thousands!

The Queen James Bible seeks to resolve interpretive ambiguity in the Bible as it pertains to homosexuality: We edited those eight verses in a way that makes homophobic interpretations impossible.

Who is Queen James?

The King James Bible is the most popular Bible of all time, and arguably the most important English language document of all time. The brainchild and namesake of King James I, who wanted an English language Bible that all could own and read, it has been in print for over 400 years and has brought more people to Christ than any other Bible translation. Commonly known to biographers but often surprising to most Christians, King James I was a well-known bisexual. Though he did marry a woman, his many gay relationships were so well-known that amongst some of his friends and court, he was known as “Queen James.” It is in his great debt and honor that we name The Queen James Bible so.

A Fabulous Bible

The QJB is a big, fabulous Bible. It is printed and bound in the United States on thick, high-quality paper in a beautiful, readable typeface. It is the perfect Bible for ceremony, study, sermon, gift-giving, or simply to put on display in the home or Church.

You can’t choose your sexuality, but you can choose Jesus. Now you can choose a Bible, too.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16"

 

[cwltexas]

This is SPECIFICALLY hate speech and I am surprised that it is allowed on this forum.

I was IN ERROR, I failed to check online, there IS A WEBSITE AND A BIBLE OFFERED CALLED THE QUEEN JAMES BIBLE.

I reported the previous post to the moderators as hate speech, I respectfully ask that my report be withdrawn and I APOLOGIZE.

I SPECIFICALLY AND DIRECTLY APOLOGIZE to the poster, greatergoodgod and ask his pardon!

 

[NeedImprovement]

“…Somewhat remarkable though how someone who thinks it is so bad to judge the sins of others doesn’t hesitate in lighting up those accusations in big red characters, when the original post was just standard letters…”

What I highlighted in big red letters was not an accusation, but the actual POST of the poster involved, their words, not mine.

Well lets call it a Freudian slip then. What you highlighted is indeed hate literature - but not against homosexuals. It is hate and disdain of the Truth by homosexuals. Anyone who could do something like that to a Bible and seriously think they’re doing a good thing really does deserve our prayers. I think maybe I’m best off doing a bit of that praying now.

Time for me to check out of this thread and break for a while : accusations are up and my patience is down .

Otherwise, I’m absolutely sure to be the next one to . . . i58.photobucket.com/albums/g258/PatC_pics/smilies/shoot_foot.gif

 

[SuperLuigi]

Aviatrix;10667794]Even in countries that have legalized gay marriage, homosexual people are still treated appallingly. I have a friend who can’t walk his dog without being called disgusting names. I constantly hear people (especially teenage boys) using the word “gay” as an insult. A girl (who was straight) was teased mercilessly in school, called lesbian and he-she, because she didn’t fit gender norms. Those are just some examples. I’m sure if I heard that I was worthless, disgusting and lesser-than nearly every day of my life I would be depressed too. While it may not be responsible for the entire difference between hetero- and homo-sexuals, I believe that it is part of the reason.

I will pray for those GLBTQ folks who are harassed. No one deserves that.

Please realize that countries with legal same sex marriage are not free of stigmatization.

Heh, getting married doesn’t solve all the worlds problems, friend. Even a lot of straight couples don’t seem to understand that.

 

[NeedImprovement]

True enough , no one deserves that.

But put it into perspective. That post is talking about people they know of.

The simple truth is that the gay -]marriage/-] legislation has ushered in all sorts of anomalies with it. And it isn’t the homosexuals (the majority of whom don’t even want it) who are the victims.

It’s the children - other peoples children. Gay -]marriage/-] claims homosexual dominance over the little innocent children of others through abrogation of parents’ rights.

Homosexuals Brainwashing Our Children in Elementary Schools . . . " Extremely slick propaganda directed at the youngest of children."