Question for the women here

[Em_in_FL]

I don’t want to be treated differently because I’m female. I want to be treated politely because I’m a person. I don’t need someone to open a door for me, or pay for things for me, and I open doors for anyone, and offer to pay for other people’s things if I have money. If I’m dating someone, I want us to split the amount of money that is spent. If it’s a long term relationship, then I can pay one time, the guy can pay other times, it’s not a big deal.

The whole idea of men paying for dates, opening doors, etc, came from the outdated idea of courting as a guy trying to show himself as a good provider and someone who would take care of the girl. But now, I don’t need someone to provide for me. I am not a little girl, I have my own intelligence and abilities, and I’m not looking for a second father, I am looking for a partner. So, I think the chivalry idea is nice, but it’s outdated. Of course, there are women who are still looking for providers. But I have already found my partner

I agree with what you’re saying…
But at the same time I’m also a sucker for chivalry… I love it when my husband “spoils” me…
But I certainly don’t EXPECT it or REQUIRE it…

I think there can be extremes on this topic…

Some women expect to be catered to in this manner… otherwise the men aren’t worthy enough for them…

And then there are the hard-lined feminists that would be insulted if a man even offered chivalry…

I think there can/should be a happy medium.

 

[gmarie21]

The men who I have thought were the best “catches” were not only the ones who opened doors, but also walked closest to the street so that if a car jumped the curb, they’d be the ones to be hit, not me.

Also, as stated in the Bronx Tale, if she leans over and opens the car door, she’s a keeper. I do that EVERY time. So it goes both ways (and I know many males who do judge a girl who they’re on a date with based on the door test).

 

[Genesis315]

Per the OP:

I had a buddy in college who saw that as female domination .

As an aside, I saw a guy on the news a couple days ago calling for all us men to boycott Valentine’s Day because it is unfair to men. He ahd some statistics that said over 75% of men didn’t expect any reciprocal gift from their gf/wife for Valentine’s Day and over 50% of women said that men shouldn’t receive anything.

Then he said how we have a female secretary of state, a female speaker of the house, and a female running for president–and if women can send troops into battle, they can pick up their part of the bill

 

[gardenswithkids]

I’m not terribly traditional but those things are just what I call being a gentleman …

Holding the door open is not restricted to only gentlemen. I find women will often hold the door open more than men. And I hold the door open for others in turn.

Sadly, some men now literally let the door slam on other people. That is a particularly problem if it happens when I’m pushing a baby stroller, (but I suppose those feminist who encourage abortion don’t give much thought to getting baby strollers through doors.) Maybe the door slammers are intimidated by some feminists’ rants, or maybe they are simply oblivious to other human beings. In any case, please ignore anyone who says holding the door open is an act of “male domination.” It is simply common courtesy.

 

[BlestOne]

Seriously, someone needs to knock these feminist university teachers upside their heads! My dh had a teacher that taught that it was abuse to impregnate a woman because a man was just “marking” his territory and it was an inconveinience and painful for a woman. Geez!!! With attitudes like that we would have no population in no time!!!

OK, as a mom with dating sons of age 20 and 17 and a daughter of dating age (but too scared of her brothers to date). I expect my son’s to always treat a woman with respect, offer to pay when she invites him, pay when he has done the inviting, not expect “anything” in return, open doors, carry packages, or whatever they can do to show simple human kindness. On the otherhand, I don’t want my daughter to expect or feel that she is entitled to have doors opened or packages carried just because she is female. I do want her to find (eventually) a husband someday that does treat her well because it is a sign of respect.

Double standard? I didn’t invent feminism… I think that God made men bigger to protect women… Men like to feel like they are providing and protecting women. I don’t see anything wrong with that, don’t women do the same with children? I think it is in our nature. Men protect & provide for women and women protect & provide for children. Wasn’t this the premise of Dracula? Wasn’t the author trying to portray the opposite by having males prey on females and females prey on children?

 

[cecilia97]

I don’t want to be treated differently because I’m female. I want to be treated politely because I’m a person. I don’t need someone to open a door for me, or pay for things for me, and I open doors for anyone, and offer to pay for other people’s things if I have money. If I’m dating someone, I want us to split the amount of money that is spent. If it’s a long term relationship, then I can pay one time, the guy can pay other times, it’s not a big deal.

The whole idea of men paying for dates, opening doors, etc, came from the outdated idea of courting as a guy trying to show himself as a good provider and someone who would take care of the girl. But now, I don’t need someone to provide for me. I am not a little girl, I have my own intelligence and abilities, and I’m not looking for a second father, I am looking for a partner. So, I think the chivalry idea is nice, but it’s outdated. Of course, there are women who are still looking for providers. But I have already found my partner

I don’t agree. A lot fo women today want chivalry because it is polite…it has nothing to do with the man being a provider. It has to do with him being ATTENTIVE.

I was actually the main bread-winner in my marriage. Opening doors doesn’t have to have anything to do with economics.

 

[CatholicSam]

I don’t agree. A lot fo women today want chivalry because it is polite…it has nothing to do with the man being a provider. It has to do with him being ATTENTIVE.

I was actually the main bread-winner in my marriage. Opening doors doesn’t have to have anything to do with economics.

:clapping: Great point! How silly of people to think it has *anything *to do with economics and who’s making what amount of money :whacky:

 

[mikew262]

First let me apologize for asking what is probably a very dumb question. Its just that my romantic life ended several years ago when I began seriously seeking a vocation as a priest, and any relationships before that were not exactly serious considering my age at the time

Ok, today one of my (female) teachers, who happens to be very feminist, was ranting against what she considered to be “antiquated actions of male domination” in relationships, namely such things as the man picking up the bill for dinner, holding doors open, starting polite discussions, ect. ect.

Now, since this part of my life ended before I was really mature enough to know all the details of dating, I am confused. Such “antiquated actions of male domination” as these (and others I’m sure you can think of) I always considered to be normal and almost necessary (forgive me if I’m wrong, but one would assume that being polite and courteous in these situations should be quite natural). So, this isnt how it is anymore?

Nothing wrong with any of it. The vast majority of women I think appreciate these courtesies and signs of respect. At least the ones I know. If I had sons, by golly, they would’ve learned these things, just like my father taught me.

 

[lotusblossom]

Also, as stated in the Bronx Tale, if she leans over and opens the car door, she’s a keeper. I do that EVERY time. So it goes both ways (and I know many males who do judge a girl who they’re on a date with based on the door test).

You know, I’d never heard of this til my husband brought it up late in our engagement. He said one of the first things that really left an impression on him was the first night he took me home (we were in college and I lived off campus), He opened my door for me, and as he was coming around to his, I leaned over and unlocked his door for him. I didn’t even realize I did that…just common courtesy for what he did for me . But he said no girl had ever done that and he had read somewhere to look out for that . I guess he knew I was keeper as well !

 

[beckers]

Ok, today one of my (female) teachers, who happens to be very feminist, was ranting against what she considered to be “antiquated actions of male domination” in relationships, namely such things as the man picking up the bill for dinner, holding doors open, starting polite discussions, ect. ect.

Now, since this part of my life ended before I was really mature enough to know all the details of dating, I am confused. Such “antiquated actions of male domination” as these (and others I’m sure you can think of) I always considered to be normal and almost necessary (forgive me if I’m wrong, but one would assume that being polite and courteous in these situations should be quite natural). So, this isnt how it is anymore?

Honey get out of Canada and come on down to Texas.
What you described is how men are raised.

When a man opens the door for you it feels special. Even at the gas station. It acknowledges that you are a person that someone took just a few seconds of their time to do something nice like holding the door open or letting you walk in first or letting you go in front of them in line. i always appericate it and let them know. A thank you very much should always be given. If someone acknowledges you then you have to acknowledge them. It’s being polite.

Paying for the bill. I always offer to pay my share but I am always deined. If we have been out on a few dates then i will steal the tab or talk to the waiter and pay for the dinner or say the movie is on me. I don’t want any man to think that i am only going out with him because he pays. I enjoy his company way more.

I hate when women try to ruin things for us other women! It’s hard enough to get a date in the first place and then having to have a man think if he is going to offend me by doing something nice then i am never going to have a chance to get married!

 

[Sheeniac]

Courtesy is alive and well. Once in awhile, you will meet someone who gets pissy, or worse, who strides through like the Queen with nary a look in your general direction. Such is life. My BF held the door open for a fellow shopper who was royalty. I had to restrain myself from going up to her and asking her for a tip for him. /end-rant.

I don’t understand the door-unlocking comments here. Sure - I would ALWAYS do that on dates when I was younger, but nearly everyone I know has the electronic door locker/unlocker, so the point is moot.

I think understanding and graciousness is important - I occasionally get the door for men (not necessarily anyone I know) and appreciate the smile back. In turn, I ALWAYS say thank you to someone. Why? To make up for the women who don’t even smile.

 

[jman507]

First let me apologize for asking what is probably a very dumb question. Its just that my romantic life ended several years ago when I began seriously seeking a vocation as a priest, and any relationships before that were not exactly serious considering my age at the time

Ok, today one of my (female) teachers, who happens to be very feminist, was ranting against what she considered to be “antiquated actions of male domination” in relationships, namely such things as the man picking up the bill for dinner, holding doors open, starting polite discussions, ect. ect.

Now, since this part of my life ended before I was really mature enough to know all the details of dating, I am confused. Such “antiquated actions of male domination” as these (and others I’m sure you can think of) I always considered to be normal and almost necessary (forgive me if I’m wrong, but one would assume that being polite and courteous in these situations should be quite natural). So, this isnt how it is anymore?

Ahh I think I understand. Hark the new age of “new fashionable actions of male apathy!” Don’t pick up her part of the bill, maybe even let her pay yours. Let the door slam in the other’s face, too bad they should have caught it, whatever. Sit there and strike up no conversation, well maybe just to crab about something. Polite and courteous, no, apathic and aloof. Goodness, what exactly does she want?

 

[jrabs]

Ok, I’m a girl who’s 26. I have lots of guy friends. I can tell you right now, that girls should ALWAYS offer to pick up their share of the bill.

It’s fine to be chivalrous, but don’t date a girl who doesn’t offer to help or return a favor.

And here is an older woman’s point of view. Totally contradicts the above young’uns dating experience.

I do not expect to pay for the first date. Nor do I offer. Period. If the dating turns into a relationship, then that goes out the window. I do not like cheap men which is a man who will not pay for my meal or date - whatever that entails ( movie ticket, etc). If he has asked me out to get to know me better, then he should be putting his best foot forward. If he has selected the restaurant, then I will assume he has the funds to take me there. If it is pricey, that was his choice and I feel no guilt - though I eat modestly anyways and would never take advantage of a situation by ordering the best on the menu.

I do not call men, nor will I ask them out. I do expect ( yes expect) them to be opening my car door and any other doors on a date.

I do enjoy a man who has manors and applies them.

I like a man to be a man and I enjoy being treated as a woman.

 

[chevalier]

Ummm, ladies, you may disagree with me, but so long as we aren’t talking about a new acquaintance, I do appreciate the woman who will let it feel that the relationship (or even the acquaintance) is growing out of interest on both sides. As much as I have the reflex to grab the bill, I also appreciate the woman who will offer to pay her part. The most appreciated is when the woman will also grab the bill sometimes. This means that there’s no mundane bickering about who made what on the bill, but at the same time there’s mutual responsibility. Understandably, if the woman were not working and I were, or if there were a difference in economic background, I would grab the bill more often or maybe even always - the same with a prospective love interest as with any friend. Still, if she actually takes you somewhere, it gives a certain unreplicable feel that I cannot describe. God bless the last girl that left me two weeks ago, she really cared. It’s not about money. The same money will end up being spent on flowers anyway and if indeed money were the blocking factor, sharing the tab or switching it would mean more meetings.

I’m also getting the impression that going somewhere with the woman and allowing her to be the host can be very important to her, especially if she’s self-sufficient and/or able to hold it economically. There’s a certain respect growing there you don’t get from always being the host, as well as perhaps a certain humility you don’t get from never being the guest.

At any rate, I generally tend to hold people to the expressed wishes, so I will not like any pretending. Tests… okay. So long as it doesn’t offend my human dignity or doesn’t give ideas as to how the woman approaches human dignity in other persons in general. But no pretending, please. Etiquette is one thing, pretending is another.

Of course, as always, feel free to take my opinions with a pinch of salt.

Edit: On an ending note, my mum, who was quite the Catholic girl in a Catholic country, always paid for herself in order to maintain independence. I find that quite respectable.

 

[pumpkinbeast]

Cause you know, opening the door for someone, that’s so cruel and twisted, and should be abolished! It’s so rude!

Being chivalrous is super!!! That’s my view as a girl. It’s NOT male domination. Domination would be forcing me to do something I don’t want to do. Being chivalrous is telling me that the guy has respect for women. I love it!

 

[mariam1976]

I don’t understand the door-unlocking comments here. Sure - I would ALWAYS do that on dates when I was younger, but nearly everyone I know has the electronic door locker/unlocker, so the point is moot.

actually the point is not moot…
in the olden ages, the chariots did not have locks which had to be opened with keys but the men still made sure that they held the door open for the woman…

just my 2 cents…

 

[whatevergirl]

First let me apologize for asking what is probably a very dumb question. Its just that my romantic life ended several years ago when I began seriously seeking a vocation as a priest, and any relationships before that were not exactly serious considering my age at the time

Ok, today one of my (female) teachers, who happens to be very feminist, was ranting against what she considered to be “antiquated actions of male domination” in relationships, namely such things as the man picking up the bill for dinner, holding doors open, starting polite discussions, ect. ect.

Now, since this part of my life ended before I was really mature enough to know all the details of dating, I am confused. Such “antiquated actions of male domination” as these (and others I’m sure you can think of) I always considered to be normal and almost necessary (forgive me if I’m wrong, but one would assume that being polite and courteous in these situations should be quite natural). So, this isnt how it is anymore?

I, for one, still believe in chivalry. It’s one of the qualities that I loved about my husband. Chivalry isn’t dead.

 

[whatevergirl]

Ummm, ladies, you may disagree with me, but so long as we aren’t talking about a new acquaintance, I do appreciate the woman who will let it feel that the relationship (or even the acquaintance) is growing out of interest on both sides. As much as I have the reflex to grab the bill, I also appreciate the woman who will offer to pay her part. The most appreciated is when the woman will also grab the bill sometimes. This means that there’s no mundane bickering about who made what on the bill, but at the same time there’s mutual responsibility. Understandably, if the woman were not working and I were, or if there were a difference in economic background, I would grab the bill more often or maybe even always - the same with a prospective love interest as with any friend. Still, if she actually takes you somewhere, it gives a certain unreplicable feel that I cannot describe. God bless the last girl that left me two weeks ago, she really cared. It’s not about money. The same money will end up being spent on flowers anyway and if indeed money were the blocking factor, sharing the tab or switching it would mean more meetings.

I’m also getting the impression that going somewhere with the woman and allowing her to be the host can be very important to her, especially if she’s self-sufficient and/or able to hold it economically. There’s a certain respect growing there you don’t get from always being the host, as well as perhaps a certain humility you don’t get from never being the guest.

At any rate, I generally tend to hold people to the expressed wishes, so I will not like any pretending. Tests… okay. So long as it doesn’t offend my human dignity or doesn’t give ideas as to how the woman approaches human dignity in other persons in general. But no pretending, please. Etiquette is one thing, pretending is another.

Of course, as always, feel free to take my opinions with a pinch of salt.

Edit: On an ending note, my mum, who was quite the Catholic girl in a Catholic country, always paid for herself in order to maintain independence. I find that quite respectable.

you have an interesting point. i think back to some times when i paid for myself, because i wasn’t sure where the relationship was heading, and didn’t think it was polite to have a complete stranger buy me dinner, if i wasn’t sure i liked him. but once my husband and i ‘knew’ we were ‘it’ for one another…he always paid. now, we share our money–so it all caught up in the end.

 

[tamie]

Women that act like this make me wonder… what in their life made them so bitter? Are they angry because they have NOT experienced the acts of a gentleman? Being nice to someone whether it be male of female is just that-being nice. If a man holds a door for me I appreciate it. I view it as common courtesy. It seems that manners have gone out of fashion and that is a shame. I grew up in the 70’s when women were hitting their stride with the feminism stuff. I never bought into it. Yes I enjoy having the freedoms I have that previous generations of women did not have, but I do not agree with the opinions of women who think men are weak and stupid. No one is perfect, but for heaven’s sake- men are not monsters! Personally I think every woman should read Dr. Laura’s book “The Care and Feeding of Husbands.” I have found that if I simply respect my husband and show him I love and care for him, my life is great! Women are great beings- but some of us take things to the extreme and this has caused many problems in our society.

 

[blessedtoo]

And here is an older woman’s point of view. Totally contradicts the above young’uns dating experience.

I do not expect to pay for the first date. Nor do I offer. Period. If the dating turns into a relationship, then that goes out the window. I do not like cheap men which is a man who will not pay for my meal or date - whatever that entails ( movie ticket, etc). If he has asked me out to get to know me better, then he should be putting his best foot forward. If he has selected the restaurant, then I will assume he has the funds to take me there. If it is pricey, that was his choice and I feel no guilt - though I eat modestly anyways and would never take advantage of a situation by ordering the best on the menu.

I do not call men, nor will I ask them out. I do expect ( yes expect) them to be opening my car door and any other doors on a date.

I do enjoy a man who has manors and applies them.

I like a man to be a man and I enjoy being treated as a woman.

Old lady here too! And I agree completely. Let me add that rather than offering to “pay” the bill for dinner or a movie, I would offer to have the gentleman over and cook him dinner. That’s the way we did it back in the stone age.