Question for the women here

[deb1]

I don’t want to be treated differently because I’m female. I want to be treated politely because I’m a person. I don’t need someone to open a door for me, or pay for things for me, and I open doors for anyone, and offer to pay for other people’s things if I have money. If I’m dating someone, I want us to split the amount of money that is spent. If it’s a long term relationship, then I can pay one time, the guy can pay other times, it’s not a big deal.

The whole idea of men paying for dates, opening doors, etc, came from the outdated idea of courting as a guy trying to show himself as a good provider and someone who would take care of the girl. But now, I don’t need someone to provide for me. I am not a little girl, I have my own intelligence and abilities, and I’m not looking for a second father, I am looking for a partner. So, I think the chivalry idea is nice, but it’s outdated. Of course, there are women who are still looking for providers. But I have already found my partner

Its been a long, long time since I dated. But I used to think that I should pay halves on dates. That seemed fair. Guess what? I quickly found that any guy who accepted my invite to go half was ALWAYS a selfish jerk. In fact my dear Grandma warned me about one guy I was dating because she thought that he had the potential to be abusive.

The guys with the gentlemanly behavior were always respectful of me in deeper ways; such as acting as though I was intelligent and listening to what I was actually saying.

Maybe this is no longer true today. Maybe male and female relationships have changed that much. But I am glad that I have a chivalrous hubby.

 

[mariam1976]

Old lady here too! And I agree completely. Let me add that rather than offering to “pay” the bill for dinner or a movie, I would offer to have the gentleman over and cook him dinner. That’s the way we did it back in the stone age.

I have heard that when you invite someone over for dinner to pay them back, they expect “dessert” which is the reason why I would never do that now…

just something my friends have told me…

 

[gradstud35]

Usually, speaking as a female, try to split the bill. And I say that only because (this may be an overgeneralization) men in today’s society have been trained that if they pay for the date, they can expect some sort of sexual play at the end of the date.

As far as holding doors or giving up seats on bus, I don’t expect it, but if a man does it, it shows his true character, usually that he’s not constantly thinking about himself, that he is aware of others and what they need. In other words, he is a winner with class and is pretty much a keeper. So in that respect, I guess that respect I guess giving men this option can kind of help women weed out potential dead weight.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Women that act like this make me wonder… what in their life made them so bitter? Are they angry because they have NOT experienced the acts of a gentleman? Being nice to someone whether it be male of female is just that-being nice. If a man holds a door for me I appreciate it. I view it as common courtesy. It seems that manners have gone out of fashion and that is a shame. I grew up in the 70’s when women were hitting their stride with the feminism stuff. I never bought into it. Yes I enjoy having the freedoms I have that previous generations of women did not have, but I do not agree with the opinions of women who think men are weak and stupid. No one is perfect, but for heaven’s sake- men are not monsters! Personally I think every woman should read Dr. Laura’s book “The Care and Feeding of Husbands.” I have found that if I simply respect my husband and show him I love and care for him, my life is great! Women are great beings- but some of us take things to the extreme and this has caused many problems in our society.

It may be that the same person in their experience who was a great proponent of traditional manners was also fond of making a laundry list of things that women supposedly can’t do.

When I grew up, we were way out in the country. We had access to a gasoline pump, which was shared, so we’d write down what we took so everyone paid their fair share in the end. When I got my driver’s license, I asked my dad if there were any trick to running the pump that I should know, and would he show me how to mark down what I’d taken? He replied that I didn’t need to know how, as the boys (my brothers) would fill the car whenever I needed them to. So I went and told one of my older brothers what my dad had said and asked if he would show me how to run the pump. He was glad to oblige.

Now, you could look at that as defying my dad, but there was not a reason in the world I couldn’t fill my own gas tank. There were lots of things like that. I kid you not, I remember the days when there was a debate over whether women were capable of running forklifts! Watch “All in the Family” re-runs some time. The show was funny because it lampooned the nutty arguments people were actually having. It was kind of nuts.

It is funny, because somehow the standard had gone from where it was thought that women of the upper classes shouldn’t have to do that kind of thing to the idea that women were not capable of doing that kind of thing. It went from women not having to support their families to there being something wrong with a woman who would “take away” a job from a man…as if married men had some right to work that a woman didn’t. Since I never heard anyone complain about the unmarried men who primarily spent their money on themselves “taking away” jobs from the married guys, I didn’t buy that argument. There was some favor shown to the married men, though, on the theory that they were more steady and really needed the income more.

It was like that in professional school and college, too. It was assumed that women there were taking opportunities away from men. Never mind that a man was not compelled to apply his education in the most obvious way any more than a woman was. If a man went to law school and then decided to pursue some other profession, nobody complained that he had “stolen” somebody else’s chance to be an attorney. But you should have heard the chorus when a woman went to law school and then had a baby–what a waste, some man could have had that education!–or let her go and then fail to have a baby–the women want to be men now!–oh yes, I remember those days.

So I see where some of this might come from, if a woman had been brought up around a father or grandfathers whose views were extreme in that direction. A person could get the idea that because Dad was like that, men are like that. Bitter toward Dad, bitter toward men. It is just like the guys who have all these cynical ideas about women, just because they were badly treated in a divorce. It happens all the time. It is human nature.

 

[jmcrae]

I think we often forget just exactly how sexist and racist people were, even just a couple of decades ago.

I remember as a kid, not being allowed to go into the “boy’s section” of the library to look up information on science, engineering, and medicine. It wasn’t that I wasn’t expected to be interested in those subjects - I wasn’t allowed to be interested in those subjects.

As the biggest kid in my class, I remember offering to help a teacher move some tables, and she just doubled over laughing - “Don’t you know that you’re not a boy? Wow, are you ever stupid!!” Then she got these really little boys to move the table for her (I was twice their size, and stronger than them, but it didn’t matter, because I was a girl) and just stood there while they struggled with these tables, to manhandle them to the place where she wanted them - it was the most ridiculous thing imaginable; two big strong people standing there watching while these poor, scrawny little guys struggle along with these big tables, just because we were female, and they were male.

 

[February]

I don’t understand the door-unlocking comments here. Sure - I would ALWAYS do that on dates when I was younger, but nearly everyone I know has the electronic door locker/unlocker, so the point is moot.

Seriously…most people unlock their doors electronically. Why lean over?? To lock and unlock it again?

 

[dessert]

I have an old car so i have to lean over but heh I have my own car now
I tried to teach our sons to respect women and guess what a lot of girls wanted to date them. But if you give out respect you should get it back or love or any of the fruits. Psychologists say that if you give a person love but it is not returned then they aren’t really receiving it into thine heart just using you. I think IMHO that they are right. My husbands action towards me also reflected into their lives. I hope this helps and can’t think of anything scriptual for it but i am learning to not be so sola anyways. God Bless you and like your posts.C.
I am happy today because my sis in law used to go to grew up in the new Catholic Church I go to and her hubby my bro in law said she could come with me so the men married into the Catholics and didn’t know we are going to pray for them. Oh yeah women are scheeming and praying too.
Dessert

 

[dessert]

Absolutely! Common courtesy is always the best policy.

Yes, always wise, especially if your date is the kind who exptects you to treat him to dessert.

Yes and carry a cell just in case too but better yet double date or just spend the first date visiting mom and dad and watch the reaction with the folks get an outside opinion Dessert

 

[Saoirse]

A few thoughts strike me here;

one, I will never ask a guy into my house (with the exception of my spiritual director) if there are not other people currently inside. I will never go inside a guy’s house unless there are other people, people that I personally know and trust, there.

I know one woman who was raped on a second date - it was at her house, and no one else was there to defend her.

I don’t care how well you think you know him, don’t ask him in unless there is someone else there; someone who will remain there until after he has left. don’t risk it.

I also doubt it if I will ever(again) date a man who does not ask me out on the date. If he is not going to ask me out on a date, he is not going to date me.

further, I prefer for him to plan the first date on his own or at least without me… I want to be able to see from the date he sets up, what he enjoys etc… of course, he would be working from within a curfew and he would know that I had someone waiting up for me. I don’t want to date a guy who is incapable of reaching decisions such as where to dine or if we should play lazer-tag or watch a romantic comedy big-screen all by himself.

As for the door-getting issue; let me say it this way. My interest in a guy would be greatly heightened if he held doors and car doors for me.

with the paying issue; I think, since in order to get me out he has to ask (at least for the first date). That does not mean that I would not be prepared to pay for myself - or that I would not offer - or that I have not paid for guys when I know that my financial situation is easier than theirs. Obviously some things fall within reason; I’m not going to date someone because he is pays for me or not date him because he doesn’t - however, I expect that whoever I date is attentive and at least makes an effort to treat me like a lady.

love
Saoirse

 

[mapleoak]

Usually, speaking as a female, try to split the bill. And I say that only because (this may be an overgeneralization) men in today’s society have been trained that if they pay for the date, they can expect some sort of sexual play at the end of the date.

Yes it is an overgeneralization.
If special favors are required, regardless of who pays, the indication of character is obvious.

In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak

 

[mapleoak]

The men who I have thought were the best “catches” were not only the ones who opened doors, but also walked closest to the street so that if a car jumped the curb, they’d be the ones to be hit, not me.

Actually it has more to do with taking the splash from the puddle than getting hit, heaven forbid. :bigyikes:

Cause you know, opening the door for someone, that’s so cruel and twisted, and should be abolished! It’s so rude.

Being chivalrous is super!!! That’s my view as a girl. It’s NOT male domination. Domination would be forcing me to do something I don’t want to do. Being chivalrous is telling me that the guy has respect for women. I love it!

A woman who graciously accepts, acknowledges, and says thank you when ‘cruel and twisted’ courtesies are extended… A pretty sure indication of character and upbringing. :angel1:

In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak

 

[Jay2]

“antiquated actions of male domination” in relationships, namely such things as the man picking up the bill for dinner, holding doors open, starting polite discussions, ect. ect.

I’ll apologize in advance for being antiquated but… If I (me, myself) initiated the social outing - “date”… I will:
Pay for all expenses.
Extend all courtesies to my companion.
Engage in discussions with my fellow waiting diners, and then after being seated devote my total attention to my dining companion, and any resultant discussion.

If this is being Male Dominant and you object… I’ll gladly give you cab fare home and enjoy my meal solo while you watch “Friends” or “Sex in the City” re-runs and wonder why I’m not perfect.

 

[Veritas41]

If you happen to see this professor carrying a large bulky object or pile of papers, let the door slam shut on her as you walk out since that is how she wants it.<---- great idea!!!

The rest of us females appreciate door opening, dinners out, and the types of courtesies you describe.

I’ll second that!

 

[homewardbound]

I wouldn’t date a guy who wasn’t willing to open doors for me and treat me to dinner every now and then. Its part of his job to make me feel like a women and special, just as it is mine to make him feel special also.

Then again I was raised by people who are now in their early 60s. I guess maybe I’m just not hip enough to get offended by men actually being the gentlemen they’re supposed to be.(and yes I pay for dinner sometimes too!)

 

[deb1]

Usually, speaking as a female, try to split the bill. And I say that only because (this may be an overgeneralization) men in today’s society have been trained that if they pay for the date, they can expect some sort of sexual play at the end of the date.

.

Even when I was dating, I overheard guys complaining that they paid for dinner and a movie and the girl didn’t “put out” But that doesn’t mean that I split the bill for fear of offending them or giving them the wrong impression. If they made a pass I said no. If they complained, I had a mouth, I told them off.

I got to the point where I discovered that if I expected to be treated like a Lady and didn’t put up with bull, I would be treated like a lady.

Just use paying for the date as a means to weed out the jerks. If you are dating some jerk who would expect sex just because he paid, then you should know after the first date so that you can stop seeing him.

 

[dessert]

First let me apologize for asking what is probably a very dumb question. Its just that my romantic life ended several years ago when I began seriously seeking a vocation as a priest, and any relationships before that were not exactly serious considering my age at the time

Ok, today one of my (female) teachers, who happens to be very feminist, was ranting against what she considered to be “antiquated actions of male domination” in relationships, namely such things as the man picking up the bill for dinner, holding doors open, starting polite discussions, ect. ect.

Now, since this part of my life ended before I was really mature enough to know all the details of dating, I am confused. Such “antiquated actions of male domination” as these (and others I’m sure you can think of) I always considered to be normal and almost necessary (forgive me if I’m wrong, but one would assume that being polite and courteous in these situations should be quite natural). So, this isnt how it is anymore?

Caesar, just a warning you may meet some of this type of person as a priest. but then you will have the training to know how to handle this in a charitable way. I saw a woman just yelling and screeming at the priest during confession and I didn’t know what was going on but he handled it very well and i was embarrased for him and sad to see a woman acting like that just because she disagreed with what he said.
Anyways her husband just sat there and didn’t act like anything out of the ordinary was going on. Well I am glad you have the vocation and will pray for the Lord to guide you and bless you. Dessert