question for women: modesty and doctors

[Phemie]

It has never mattered to me whether my doctor was male or female, only that he/she be good.

What I did find out when I attended the ‘Well Woman Clinic’ at my local hospital, a clinic staffed by Nurse Practitioners, was that what I had thought was a breast examination in prior years was more of a ‘well, I’ll touch those because I have to but I don’t really know what I’m doing’ 10 second ‘examination’ that couldn’t possibly have revealed anything. The examination at my clinic was so thorough that there was no doubt that if there had been anything to find it would have been found.

It also included a lesson with model breasts that contained lumps: an ‘how to feel’ and ‘what to feel for’ lesson, so to speak. While I’d known pretty much how to do it, not knowing what I was searching for made me break into a panicked sweat the first time I did a self-examination: there were so MANY lumps! Turned out to be my ribs.

As for women coming on to their doctors, one woman who worked with my husband actually asked the visiting military doctor out on a date while he was doing her pap smear. He was unprofessional enough to tell the tale with name and all the details at the next party and she became know as ‘Mrs. Pap Smear’.

I have to say that I have never had a pelvic performed by a male doctor that didn’t have a female chaperon and I chaperoned many while I was still working as a nurse.

 

[limabeanerson]

I just want to make sure of some things here. Women in for exams don’t just sit there with no clothes on, they are always wearing those hideous hospital gowns, and the everything else is covered up while the doctor (male or female) looks at the particular part they are examining.

And yes doctors do this every day, not to mention they are looking for medical problems. (How turned on are people by their spouse when they are looking for something wrong on their body, I know I am not ). And people go see the obgyns, when things are wrong, it would be a truly disturbed individual who was sexually attracted to female genitalia when it is infected with an std, uti, or other infection.

Anyways going to a male doctor is not the same thing as going to the beach or out on the street. The doctors who go into this profession know what they are getting into and choose to see what they see. So no, women do not have any moral responsibility for the male’s thoughts if there even are any. We must also hope and pray that the rigors of medical school and lawsuits would keep any person with less than pure motives out of this particular field.

I know. I’ve gone to an appointment with my wife before. It was just a routine OBGYN appt and the Dr did a breast exam. He was, of course, very professional but I can’t imagine a male, doctor or not, being able to do that with out any arousal at all. Not intentional and not that he would ever do anything out of line but sometimes impure thoughts slip in even when they are not wanted. Maybe I’m just biased in that I find my wife so beautiful that it would not be possible to have no thoughts of desire, I don’t know.

You answered the part of my question I was most curious about in that women do not have any moral responsibility. I agree and was hoping that was what the Church would think as well.

Ever witnessed an exam? It’s NOT a playboy movie in the making. So… I ask you as a male. Who are you going to when you turn 40 and get the oh so desired rectal exam. A woman who might lust? Or a man who might lust?

Yes. While I agree that its not a playboy movie setting I will say, as a male, that I think women FAR underestimate how little it takes to “turn on” a man, even unintentionally.

I am choosing to continue to block out any thoughts of a rectal exam, thank you very much. lol.

You’d think that if a man was looking and touching boobs all day for breast exams, he’d get used to it. Meaning it would be nothing new.

In many cases, You would be wrong.

There is no way to tell if you are the woman who will turn out to present a temptation to your doctor. You’re not obligated to refrain from seeing a doctor because you don’t have 100% assurance that you won’t incite lust in a particular doctor. It’s impossible to expect that kind of certainty before making a decision to see a doctor.

Instead, you safely assume the realistic expectation that the doctors must have made a commitment to resisting the entertaining of any temptations to thoughts or actions, by virtue of entering their profession. If patients are going to be seen at all, the doctor must assume complete custody over his faculties, or choose another profession. In assuming and maintaining custody over his senses, the patients are waived of any obligation.

Thank you. This is exactly what I assumed the Church’s stance would be on this topic but you worded it very well.

Thanks!

 

[PatriceA]

Just a thought, if you really think an OB/GYN is going to lust after you during the exam, you have no guarantee someone’s sexual orientation just based on gender alone. You could very well pick a female doctor, thinking you are being modest and such, and the female doctor could be homosexual and you’d still have the very scenerio you’re trying to avoid picking a doctor based on gender. Better to pick a doctor based on their reputation and your repoire with them than on gender.

Edit to add: I believe OB/GYNs are truly professional, I don’t believe they’re lusting after their patients during an exam. Just presenting a side to the situation that some may not take into consideration if they think its possible that lust will be a result of a breast exam.

 

[Monica4316]

I can see both views…

 

[faithfully]

Just a thought, if you really think an OB/GYN is going to lust after you during the exam, you have no guarantee someone’s sexual orientation just based on gender alone. You could very well pick a female doctor, thinking you are being modest and such, and the female doctor could be homosexual and you’d still have the very scenerio you’re trying to avoid picking a doctor based on gender. Better to pick a doctor based on their reputation and your repoire with them than on gender.

Edit to add: I believe OB/GYNs are truly professional, I don’t believe they’re lusting after their patients during an exam. Just presenting a side to the situation that some may not take into consideration if they think its possible that lust will be a result of a breast exam.

Funny you mention that. I remember talking to a woman that said she would NEVER go to a woman. “What if she was gay?”

 

[faithfully]

Yes. While I agree that its not a playboy movie setting I will say, as a male, that I think women FAR underestimate how little it takes to “turn on” a man, even unintentionally.

I am choosing to continue to block out any thoughts of a rectal exam, thank you very much. lol.

LOL! I know, I joke with my DH… If the wind is blowing just right…

Actually, my husband is a TC survivor. And to hear him tell of his exams. He had a female doing his ultrasounds. Without an assist. Seriously, that goopy gel, and a man handling beyond anything you could imagine. Some people pay good money for that! And THEN when she found something she brought in another 3 or 4 people. Men and women. Here’s my husband getting handled by a woman , with a total audiance… and yet no arrousal what so ever. I think it’s all just so clinical.

If you think about it. Maybe you couldn’t do it with your wife. But if you’re feeling someone’s boob, and concentrating on the tissue below to feel for what could be a life threatening lump… the whole erotica of it all would seem lost! There is a very important job at hand.

 

[JesusIsMercy]

Great responses, thank you!! I’m surprised to see so many.

I wanted to clarify… I’m kind of young, and maybe that’s why I feel nervous about a male OB/GYN… I’m afraid that I’ll feel violated, or that the doctor would have impure thoughts. I know that doctors should be very professional, but we can’t always control our thoughts. That being said, maybe the context of the examination (it being very medical) changes things. I’m also glad that the patient wears the hospital gown and doesn’t just sit there naked.

I feel more comfortable with a female doctor, but my mom wants me to see a male doctor. Apparently there are more male OB/GYNs and so there might be a higher chance of finding a good doctor.

 

[Phemie]

Great responses, thank you!! I’m surprised to see so many.

I wanted to clarify… I’m kind of young, and maybe that’s why I feel nervous about a male OB/GYN… I’m afraid that I’ll feel violated, or that the doctor would have impure thoughts. I know that doctors should be very professional, but we can’t always control our thoughts.

For this reason I feel more comfortable with a female doctor, but my mom wants me to see a male doctor. Apparently there are more male OB/GYNs and so there might be a higher chance of finding a good doctor.

Do you know any nurses? Ask them which doctor they’d go see. I always found that to be my best bet when looking at new docs.

“Hey, K, who should I see for this problem?”

“Well, do you know what it is and what you want for it? Then see Dr. X, he’ll give you just what you want. Avoid him if you don’t know what’s wrong, he can’t diagnose worth beans. If you want a thorough examination, Drs. Y & Z are great. Dr. W has great bedside manner but so-so in the results dept. OTOH, Dr. U has lousy bedside manner but I’d put my life in his hands any day.” Always helped me make the right choice.

 

[Joannm]

Funny you mention that. I remember talking to a woman that said she would NEVER go to a woman. “What if she was gay?”

I had a friend who was a nurse midwife and she said that there are many many lesbians in that profession, and not because they like looking at women but because they truly care about the health care of women. I would think that men who go into the profession of women’s health care also truly care about the health care of women. Plus GYN/OBs have one of the highest insurance premiums in the medical profession, so they really have to want to go into that field to have to pay out all that money. I don’t think looking at women’s privates is worth paying all that…they could get cheaper looks by going to a peep show or a prostitute.

I have been to both men and women…all I care about is good care. BTW my pastor’s primary care physician is a woman. The associate pastor goes to a woman. Both, I would assume, have to be touched by their doctor in private places.

 

[Prayerfully]

Great responses, thank you!! I’m surprised to see so many.

I wanted to clarify… I’m kind of young, and maybe that’s why I feel nervous about a male OB/GYN… I’m afraid that I’ll feel violated, or that the doctor would have impure thoughts. I know that doctors should be very professional, but we can’t always control our thoughts. That being said, maybe the context of the examination (it being very medical) changes things. I’m also glad that the patient wears the hospital gown and doesn’t just sit there naked.

I feel more comfortable with a female doctor, but my mom wants me to see a male doctor. Apparently there are more male OB/GYNs and so there might be a higher chance of finding a good doctor.

I’m quite troubled that your mom insists you see a male doctor when you clearly don’t want to and are not comfortable in doing so. Just the fact you commented on the possibilty of feeling violated leads me to believe that if you have a breast and/or pelvic exam by a male doctor when you obviously don’t want to, it’s could be quite traumatic and cause some serious emotional repercussions.

I don’t know where you live, but in my city, female OB/GYN’s outnumber the men, so it’s not difficult to find good female doctors. I have seen both and while I personally feel more comfortable with a female by choice, if I had an emergency, I would want the best doctor, regardless of the gender. From what you’ve posted and the fact you are not in the hospital having surgery tells me that your need to see the doc is not of an emergent nature.

I would talk with your mom about your fears and concerns and let her know how you feel. I didn’t catch your age, but even if you are a minor, you mom should put your well-being (and that includes emotional) above her need to choose your doctor based on what she’s comfortable with. I cannot imagine forcing my teen daughter to get an exam of that nature by a male doctor if she was this anxious about it. I pray you can explain your feelings to your mom and she will be understanding and not force you to do something you are quite uncomfortable with.

 

[BlueShadow123]

I know. I’ve gone to an appointment with my wife before. It was just a routine OBGYN appt and the Dr did a breast exam. He was, of course, very professional but I can’t imagine a male, doctor or not, being able to do that with out any arousal at all. Not intentional and not that he would ever do anything out of line but sometimes impure thoughts slip in even when they are not wanted. Maybe I’m just biased in that I find my wife so beautiful that it would not be possible to have no thoughts of desire, I don’t know.

You answered the part of my question I was most curious about in that women do not have any moral responsibility. I agree and was hoping that was what the Church would think as well.

Yes. While I agree that its not a playboy movie setting I will say, as a male, that I think women FAR underestimate how little it takes to “turn on” a man, even unintentionally.

I am choosing to continue to block out any thoughts of a rectal exam, thank you very much. lol.

In many cases, You would be wrong.

Thank you. This is exactly what I assumed the Church’s stance would be on this topic but you worded it very well.

Thanks!

When did i ever say I was 100% ? Im saying that the doctors SHOULD be there for their job and only their job. Not there to lust.

 

[SamTheNewfie]

Actually I think all male OB/GYNs do this, (at least I thought they did it in order to reduce their liability).

My internist doesn’t.

 

[bmaj]

When I had my first GYN check up years ago, I chose a female physician because of the same issues you are concerned about. It turned out to be a painful experience, and she had a rough manner and was not a very pleasant doctor to converse with. I used her for a few years anyway since she was the only female GYN in our area. Being fairly young and naive, I thought it might be even worse to go to a male. I then heard it was rumored that she was a homosexual (may not have been true …who knows - it was the “old” days when things like that were kept much more quiet), and I didn’t know what to do.

Fortunately, I happened to then move away from the area and found a wonderful male OB/GYN doctor who several of my new friends used and recommended. He delivered both of our children, and I still go to him now - decades later. He never makes me feel as if he might be interested in more than my health.

So, I guess being comfortable with the doctor and knowing he is a knowledgeable and caring one is much more important than his or her sex. It can really help to ask around to several female friends for recommendations if that’s at all possible. Good luck in your decision!

 

[Truly_Beloved]

I feel more comfortable with a female doctor, but my mom wants me to see a male doctor.

Then see a female doctor. You’re the one getting the exam, not your mom. Why she even thinks she has any say in this matter is beyond me. You could even see a midwife, if you like! I get along well enough with my midwife.

(I am a sexual assault survivor who made the mistake of finally trying a male OB during the birth of my third baby. )

 

[shannyk]

How about asking to interview both a male and female Dr before you actually make an appointment for an exam so you can get a feel for which one you prefer? Honestly, good and gentle and respectful doctors come in both genders. it’s just a very personal thing. I MUCH prefer my male GYN hands down over the female ones I’ve seen. (and I’m’ a rape survivor:shrug

 

[Truly_Beloved]

I MUCH prefer my male GYN hands down over the female ones I’ve seen. (and I’m’ a rape survivor:shrug

You must be further along in the healing process than I am. Gives me hope. Thanks, Miss Shanny!

 

[EasterJoy]

Choosing only among those of high competence, find a *person *who respects your dignity and whom you will trust enough to give a full and honest history. It is morally allowable for this to be a male, but you owe no one any apologies for whether or not you feel comfortable with a particular doctor. There is nothing sensual about OB/GYN evaluations, either. It may be difficult for some of us to relax for those no matter who is doing them, and that is nothing to apologize for, either. You do the best you can, because it is necessary to do it.

In a practical sense, lust requires objectification of someone who deserves to be seen as a person worthy of respect. Having said that, spending all of your working days treating women’s ailments, pregnancies and worries has this way of making women into persons, not objects. Of all of the people I would trust to not look at my body in a lustful manner, it would be an OB/GYN, and that is why.

The main risk of objectification a doctor faces is not to see their patients as objects of physical gratification, but as “cases”, or as objects of medical practice. This is a million miles from sexual objectification. It can also feel demeaning, though. Your doctor may also lack diligence, not looking at you closely enough, practically bored with you. You need to feel you have your doctor’s full attention, in a medical sense. Again, you are allowed to decide whether or not a doctor regards you in a way that is comfortable for you and gives you confidence as a person and as a patient.

The main thing, though, if you have a suspicious lump in your breast is to make no delay in having it checked out by someone whose competence is not in question, even if you have to have to get several opinions until you find one that you trust. Time can make a huge difference in prognosis.

 

[JesusIsMercy]

Thank you for all the responses…

alright so I went to see a doctor, and now I’m in a lot of emotional pain.

I really felt like I would be more comfortable with a female doctor, but I went to see a walk in doctor for another issue, and my mom told me to bring it up then. She was there with me. The doctor was a man… I asked him about my problem, and he said he could take a look at it and tell me if there’s anything wrong. He did, and told me it’s not an illness.

But here’s what’s been happening to me since then… I feel completely violated, even though he wasn’t creepy at all and treated the matter very professionally. I didn’t get the sense that he was looking at me lustfully or anything, but in the way a doctor should.

But… well one of the things I felt so good about before, is that I’m trying to live a pure life and that I’m saving myself for my future husband. Even though I don’t have a perfect past at all, I felt that so happy that I’m living chastely now. But after the doctor’s appointment, I feel like I’ve lost a part of myself… I feel like i’ve lost my innocence in a way. He saw a part of me that I don’t want to show to anyone except my husband… and he touched me too, and he wasn’t wearing gloves. I also saw a wedding ring on his finger and now I feel so guilty and like I committed adultery.

I’ve decided that even though society says it’s alright for a woman to have a male GYN, I don’t know if it’s alright with God… even though he’s a doctor, he’s still a man… how do I know that an impure thought didn’t go through his mind? and even though the context wasn’t at all sexual, I still feel like no man should see that part of me if I’m not married to him,. If it was a female doctor, I wouldn’t worry.

I’m going through so much emotional turmoil right now… I feel like I’ve sinned, I no longer feel pure like I did before, it’s like I’ve lost something very special.

I mentioned this to someone and it was met with a lot of misunderstanding… and I think that many of you would disagree with me, probably for very valid reasons. But I really feel this strongly. I want to go to Confession for this. But I feel that even after Confession, I’d still feel the same way. I can’t take back what happened… I just feel SUCH a sense of loss. And it’s terrible because if this is a sin, then the doctor and my mom sinned too, because of me.

How can I ever get over this? by the way I’m never seeing a male doctor for anything like this again. I don’t care if they are more common or even if they are better. There are certain parts of us that only a spouse should see.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Thank you for all the responses…

alright so I went to see a doctor, and now I’m in a lot of emotional pain.

I really felt like I would be more comfortable with a female doctor, but I went to see a walk in doctor for another issue, and my mom told me to bring it up then. She was there with me. The doctor was a man… I asked him about my problem, and he said he could take a look at it and tell me if there’s anything wrong. He did, and told me it’s not an illness.

But here’s what’s been happening to me since then… I feel completely violated, even though he wasn’t creepy at all and treated the matter very professionally. I didn’t get the sense that he was looking at me lustfully or anything, but in the way a doctor should.

But… well one of the things I felt so good about before, is that I’m trying to live a pure life and that I’m saving myself for my future husband. Even though I don’t have a perfect past at all, I felt that so happy that I’m living chastely now. But after the doctor’s appointment, I feel like I’ve lost a part of myself… I feel like i’ve lost my innocence in a way. He saw a part of me that I don’t want to show to anyone except my husband… and he touched me too, and he wasn’t wearing gloves. I also saw a wedding ring on his finger and now I feel so guilty and like I committed adultery.

I’ve decided that even though society says it’s alright for a woman to have a male GYN, I don’t know if it’s alright with God… even though he’s a doctor, he’s still a man… how do I know that an impure thought didn’t go through his mind? and even though the context wasn’t at all sexual, I still feel like no man should see that part of me if I’m not married to him,. If it was a female doctor, I wouldn’t worry.

I’m going through so much emotional turmoil right now… I feel like I’ve sinned, I no longer feel pure like I did before, it’s like I’ve lost something very special.

I mentioned this to someone and it was met with a lot of misunderstanding… and I think that many of you would disagree with me, probably for very valid reasons. But I really feel this strongly. I want to go to Confession for this. But I feel that even after Confession, I’d still feel the same way. I can’t take back what happened… I just feel SUCH a sense of loss. And it’s terrible because if this is a sin, then the doctor and my mom sinned too, because of me.

How can I ever get over this? by the way I’m never seeing a male doctor for anything like this again. I don’t care if they are more common or even if they are better. There are certain parts of us that only a spouse should see.

Firstly you did nothing wrong. You are still a chaste virgin.

Secondly, if he did a pelvic exam without wearing gloves, call the authorities ASAP. That is a major issue. He needs to wear gloves to prevent infection. And your mom was right there and said nothing?

 

[PatriceA]

I probably can’t offer the indepth advice that could answer your concerns adequately.

But what I can say is I too would feel violated. You were put in a very, very awkward position by your mom. The decision and control over if and when you see an OB/GYN for your first exam was taken away from you. That’s not fair. Its your body, you should say when and who gets to give the exam. I certainly would have major concerns about the whole situation and would feel very angry and confused. The boundaries between patient and doctor were blurred by the very fact that your mom was involved enough in the visit to even be able to suggest that a doctor in a walk-in clinic or office should take a look at your medical issue. The whole situation sounds inappropriate from the description you have given.