Question From a Protestant

[KennC]

Interesting, KC. From what denomination did you come?

Hi Socrates; the United Church of Canada (which has changed a lot from what I hear) … my experience began with a Sunday school teacher who was a teacher by profession and me who was a figgeter and one who always seemed to get that “talking to”. I remember an environment of “good children got to go live with Jesus” and “bad kids, well???”

… I figured I had pretty much burned all my bridges with God around 12 years old.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

… Now, that said, I don’t believe that Protestant denominations have followed the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If that so, the it would be better known as the Holy Spirit of confusion since they all have many conflicting beliefs depending on the denomination.
…

True. Many who call themselves Christians really are not. I’m sure you have noticed many who call themselves Catholics who do not live like Jesus?

Then there are Protestant churches of different denominations who consider the members of those different denominations to be true followers of Christ. Like St. Augustine, they believe in liberty when it comes to non-essential doctrines and unity when it comes to essential ones. There are many things that Protestants feel they can (and even should) debate but not divide over. Even within the same church one might experience two Protestants debating an idea like free will but then going out for pizza together afterward.

In the Roman Catholic Church are there issues that the leadership of the church believes are OK to debate but never divide over?

 

[jmcrae]

In the Roman Catholic Church are their issues that the leadership of the church believes are OK to debate but never divide over?

Most definitely. In fact, there are only seven passages in the entire Bible that have doctrinally defined interpretations. (These interpretations also happen to be the most obvious reading of those particular passages - we are certainly never asked to believe that the Bible says anything that it doesn’t obviously say.) With regard to the rest, we are at liberty to interpret them allegorically or metaphorically, with absolutely no danger to our standing in the Catholic Church.

We do have certain fundamentals that must be believed, but far from stifling conversation, these fundamentals make it possible to move along to even more interesting conversations than one can have yet, when one doesn’t know yet whether these basic things are true, or not.

For example, we believe that Jesus is both Man and God. This is an unquestionable fundamental belief, for Catholics.

Knowing that Jesus is God, and also knowing that we are supposed to be like Jesus, the question then arises, “Exactly how much like Jesus can we become, while we’re here on earth, before we get to Heaven?”

For example, can some human beings perform healing miracles, or other kinds of miracles?

Entire libraries have been written about this one question - and there are also many other questions that we can ask, too.

It’s fun to be a Catholic!! :dancing:

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Most definitely. In fact, there are only seven passages in the entire Bible that have doctrinally defined interpretations. (These interpretations also happen to be the most obvious reading of those particular passages - we are certainly never asked to believe that the Bible says anything that it doesn’t obviously say.) With regard to the rest, we are at liberty to interpret them allegorically or metaphorically, with absolutely no danger to our standing in the Catholic Church.

We do have certain fundamentals that must be believed, but far from stifling conversation, these fundamentals make it possible to move along to even more interesting conversations than one can have yet, when one doesn’t know yet whether these basic things are true, or not. …

It sounds, then, that Roman Catholicism is like Protestant Christianity, without all the denominations. That’s not to say they are the same religion, but both hold that there can be differences of opinion on what are believed to be non-essential doctrines.

Is that a fair comparison?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Got to run, all. Thanks for making me feel welcome!

 

[Superstar905]

True. Many who call themselves Christians really are not. I’m sure you have noticed many who call themselves Catholics who do not live like Jesus?

Absolutely. Many.

 

[jmcrae]

It sounds, then, that Roman Catholicism is like Protestant Christianity, without all the denominations. That’s not to say they are the same religion, but both hold that there can be differences of opinion on what are believed to be non-essential doctrines.

Is that a fair comparison?

Yes, I think so.

For example, in the Catholic Church, we have the Franciscans, who live very simply, and who try to be good stewards of the earth.

In Protestantism, you have the Mennonites, who try to live simply, and also try to be good stewards of the earth.

In the Catholic Church, we have the Jesuits (priests) and others who follow the way of St. Ignatius (who was the founder of the Jesuits), who value education and evangelism very highly.

In Protestantism, you have the Lutherans, who are also like this.

The difference between Catholicism and Protestantism would be that a Jesuit and a Franciscan could both go to the same Mass together, and both could be full members together at that parish (they could even both sit on the Parish Council together), whereas the Mennonite and the Lutheran would likely not attend the same church together - or if they did, one or both would be considered a visitor - certainly most welcome to attend, but it wouldn’t be their regular or preferred place of worship - and there would also be essential doctrinal differences between the Mennonite and the Lutheran that wouldn’t exist between the Jesuit and the Franciscan.

 

[guanophore]

It sounds, then, that Roman Catholicism is like Protestant Christianity, without all the denominations. That’s not to say they are the same religion, but both hold that there can be differences of opinion on what are believed to be non-essential doctrines.

Is that a fair comparison?

I think not. All the Protestant denominations broke off from the Catholic Church because they disagreed about what were the essential doctrines. Protestants don’t recognize the role of Sacred Tradition, or communion with the bishop of Rome as important parts of their belief.

 

[jmcrae]

I think not. All the Protestant denominations broke off from the Catholic Church because they disagreed about what were the essential doctrines. Protestants don’t recognize the role of Sacred Tradition, or communion with the bishop of Rome as important parts of their belief.

This is quite true. Later Protestant denominations also broke off from earlier ones for similar reasons.

 

[JoeyWarren]

By the way, you will also find many Catholics here who are former Protestants. You will find that they have a very good understanding of the Protestant world, both its ups and its downs.

I am one of those.

 

[JoeyWarren]

This is quite true. Later Protestant denominations also broke off from earlier ones for similar reasons.

and more broke off those that broke off from those that broke off from those that…to the point the non-denominational has created millions of denominations.

 

[jmcrae]

and more broke off those that broke off from those that broke off from those that…to the point the non-denominational has created millions of denominations.

Well - lots, for sure. I doubt it’s “millions,” though.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Well - lots, for sure. I doubt it’s “millions,” though.

hmmmmmmmmm…in my little rinky dink town of 12000 there are at least 18 non-denominationals I have counted just driving around. Now if went searching I would find more.

 

[jmcrae]

What are you considering “non-denominational?”

Keep in mind that things like Four Square Gospel, Church of the Nazarene, and Calvary Chapel all have national/international headquarters that set their doctrinal codes, and thus are not “non-denominational.”

 

[JoeyWarren]

What are you considering “non-denominational?”

Keep in mind that things like Four Square Gospel, Church of the Nazarene, and Calvary Chapel all have national/international headquarters that set their doctrinal codes, and thus are not “non-denominational.”

Just as the word implies. They claim to be a separate entity and answer to no one but the pastor. And I ignored any church that has Baptist as part of name.

 

[jmcrae]

Just as the word implies. They claim to be a separate entity and answer to no one but the pastor. And I ignored any church that has Baptist as part of name.

Okay. That seems like a lot.

I live in a big city, and we only have two bona fide non-denominational churches here. The rest are affiliated in some way with a denominational headquarters.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Western Canada is very much different then the “Bible Belt” South where I live.

I use to visit Canada a lot when I was stationed in Washington State while in the Navy.

 

[JoeyWarren]

10 of these are in strip malls.

I make it a habit of visiting every new church that pops up here and make it a point to ask the affiliation.

 

[jmcrae]

Western Canada is very much different then the “Bible Belt” South where I live.

I’m thinking (no offense to the American South; this is just my impression of things) that if you were to count up the number of non-denominational churches in the American South, you’d probably have 90% of the total world-wide number of them.

I use to visit Canada a lot when I was stationed in Washington State while in the Navy.

Welcome to Canada!!

Did you ever get a chance to come through the Rockies? They’re gorgeous in the summer time.

 

[JoeyWarren]

I’m thinking (no offense to the American South; this is just my impression of things) that if you were to count up the number of non-denominational churches in the American South, you’d probably have 90% of the total world-wide number of them.

Welcome to Canada!!

Did you ever get a chance to come through the Rockies? They’re gorgeous in the summer time.

No, I never ventured that far. I did travel thru the US side of the Rockies when I got out of the Navy. It was a long drive from Washington to Alabama.

No offense on the American South bit. You may be right on that account.