A
annad347
Guest
now that’s something to think about.
because of JimG’s comment, maybe I’ll wait to see happens.
Last edited:
- Status
T
tafan2
Guest
Understandable. I do have one request: how did the talk go with your priest? If its too private and you do not want to answer, that’s fine. But I am praying for you.
A
annad347
Guest
haven’t had it yet, I’m giving them til tomorrow to get back with me for an appointment, if not I’ll call again. I’m just thinking he’s very busy… and I wont mind sharing if I can.
L
lonegreywolf20
Guest
I will answer from my perspective as someone who doesn’t pray or talk to the Saints or Mary.
It is not a requirement to do so.
It is not a requirement to do so.
J
JanetF
Guest
I hear ya. I talk to my guardian angel way more than I talk to the saints!
A
annad347
Guest
and you’re a practicing Catholic? <— sry if that sounds rude
P
PetraG
Guest
I’m not quite sure how you can avoid asking saints to pray for you. It is fairly pervasive.
As an example:
I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done
and in what I have failed to do,
through my fault,
through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God
Having said that, as someone has pointed out, the words of the Hail Mary are pretty clearly a request for prayers, rather than “praying to” in the sense of implying the the Blessed Virgin herself can actually do anything for you out of her own storehouse of power. Even the Memorare says that people who ask the Virgin’s intercession are not left unaided, not that she personally supplies the answer to their prayers. (cont)
As an example:
I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done
and in what I have failed to do,
through my fault,
through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God
Having said that, as someone has pointed out, the words of the Hail Mary are pretty clearly a request for prayers, rather than “praying to” in the sense of implying the the Blessed Virgin herself can actually do anything for you out of her own storehouse of power. Even the Memorare says that people who ask the Virgin’s intercession are not left unaided, not that she personally supplies the answer to their prayers. (cont)
Last edited:
P
PetraG
Guest
(cont) I guess I would point you to this Biblical passage, to reassure you the spirit in which Mary accepts prayers:
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
(So Holy Scripture says that Elizabeth’s response to Mary was inspired by the Holy Spirit and the leaping of St. John in her womb was inspired by the Holy Spirit…that is, what she said was not off the mark, but as on the mark as any prophet. Notice, however, that Mary also responds filled with the Holy Spirit):
And Mary said:
“My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness;
behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
The Mighty One has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.
His mercy is from age to age
to those who fear him.
He has shown might with his arm,
dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones
but lifted up the lowly.
The hungry he has filled with good things;
the rich he has sent away empty.
He has helped Israel his servant,
remembering his mercy,
according to his promise to our fathers,
to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”
So–when you hear prayers to the saints, realize that when these are rightly understood they are not entreaties sent to the Bureaucrats of the Almighty. The reason that we pray to the saints is NOT that God doesn’t want a direct communication. No, it is more like putting your cry into a whole rally section of praise and a whole cheering squad of encouragement. You are placing yourself not just in front of your Maker but placing yourself within the whole ecosystem of sanctity. We weren’t made to be little individual living things. We were meant to be part of the interconnected web of eternal life. That interconnection is love, and the saints are the people with whom we will be loving and praising God for an eternity.
Maybe, if you hear the prayers to the saints made by others in that light, the emotional association you have with an incorrect and fear-based “bureaucrat” model of prayer to the saints will eventually fade. It is totally understandable that you would find that repulsive, because it really is off the mark.
When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
(So Holy Scripture says that Elizabeth’s response to Mary was inspired by the Holy Spirit and the leaping of St. John in her womb was inspired by the Holy Spirit…that is, what she said was not off the mark, but as on the mark as any prophet. Notice, however, that Mary also responds filled with the Holy Spirit):
And Mary said:
“My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness;
behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
The Mighty One has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.
His mercy is from age to age
to those who fear him.
He has shown might with his arm,
dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones
but lifted up the lowly.
The hungry he has filled with good things;
the rich he has sent away empty.
He has helped Israel his servant,
remembering his mercy,
according to his promise to our fathers,
to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”
So–when you hear prayers to the saints, realize that when these are rightly understood they are not entreaties sent to the Bureaucrats of the Almighty. The reason that we pray to the saints is NOT that God doesn’t want a direct communication. No, it is more like putting your cry into a whole rally section of praise and a whole cheering squad of encouragement. You are placing yourself not just in front of your Maker but placing yourself within the whole ecosystem of sanctity. We weren’t made to be little individual living things. We were meant to be part of the interconnected web of eternal life. That interconnection is love, and the saints are the people with whom we will be loving and praising God for an eternity.
Maybe, if you hear the prayers to the saints made by others in that light, the emotional association you have with an incorrect and fear-based “bureaucrat” model of prayer to the saints will eventually fade. It is totally understandable that you would find that repulsive, because it really is off the mark.
L
lonegreywolf20
Guest
No, not really.
However, when I was a couple years ago, the response that I gave you is the response that was given to me by one of the priests on here and my own priest at the church I attended.
These days there is too much that I disagree with when it comes to the Catholic church, that I do not attend mass and only consider myself Catholic in name only because “once Catholic, always Catholic.”
With that said, if I was a practicing Catholic I can tell you that I still wouldn’t pray/talk to the saints as it is not a requirement of the Catholic church.
However, when I was a couple years ago, the response that I gave you is the response that was given to me by one of the priests on here and my own priest at the church I attended.
These days there is too much that I disagree with when it comes to the Catholic church, that I do not attend mass and only consider myself Catholic in name only because “once Catholic, always Catholic.”
With that said, if I was a practicing Catholic I can tell you that I still wouldn’t pray/talk to the saints as it is not a requirement of the Catholic church.
L
lonegreywolf20
Guest
I was told my the priest of the church I had been attending a couple years ago that I can remain silent through the part of the above corporate prayer when it speaks of Mary, the angels and the saints.
So I did.
So I did.
P
PetraG
Guest
You can. You can also eventually learn to listen in a different way, rather than choosing to remain in a mindset that is not really a correct understanding of what is being said by others. It is more charitable to learn to hear something as it is actually meant, rather than to avoid a situation based on a repugnance that isn’t actually rooted in reality. The repugnance is real and not something to be minimized. It isn’t something that goes away by just telling yourself to switch your noodle. That doesn’t mean it is the best thing for you to leave it unchallenged in yourself indefinitely, though. Whenever we carry false notions around within ourselves, we want to gradually work our way towards putting those behind us.
Last edited:
L
lonegreywolf20
Guest
If I ever return back to the Catholic church, I will likely continue to be silent during that portion of the prayer.
I have no reason to pray to or ask for prayers from Mary, angels or the saints. I don’t ask for prayers from anyone else either. I am that consistent. If someone prays for me on their won without me asking, I cannot stop them, but I will never ask for prayer.
To me, prayer is a private thing between me and my God.
I have no reason to pray to or ask for prayers from Mary, angels or the saints. I don’t ask for prayers from anyone else either. I am that consistent. If someone prays for me on their won without me asking, I cannot stop them, but I will never ask for prayer.
To me, prayer is a private thing between me and my God.
Last edited:
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
If you lived here, I could take you to have lunch with some people who are under formal excommunication from the Vatican, this case was all over Catholic media a few years ago. One of the things for which they were excommunicated is worshiping Mary the same as God.
P
PetraG
Guest
When did God become your personal possession, lol?
There is nothing about Christianity or even the great religions of the world that encourage a person to think that their life is primarily about them. Why would we be commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves, except that we can’t become the persons we were made to be unless we are in a relationship of love and interdependence with the other people that God loves?
L
lonegreywolf20
Guest
“My God” is a figure of speech and not in anyway meant as possessive.
I never said anything about not loving one’s neighbors or even not being in a relationship with others. You read into what I said way too much!
My prayer life with God is a private one. I will never ask anyone to pray for me. if they do so of their own volition, that is something that they have chosen to do, but you can be sure I didn’t ask for it.
I never said anything about not loving one’s neighbors or even not being in a relationship with others. You read into what I said way too much!
My prayer life with God is a private one. I will never ask anyone to pray for me. if they do so of their own volition, that is something that they have chosen to do, but you can be sure I didn’t ask for it.
P
PetraG
Guest
You wrote: I have no reason to pray to or ask for prayers from Mary, angels or the saints.
Well, actually, yes you do. What, St. Paul needed to pray for others and ask them to pray for him, but you don’t? The Letter of James tells people who are sick to summon the presbyters to pray over them, but that doesn’t apply to you?
Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful. James 5:16
Well, actually, yes you do. What, St. Paul needed to pray for others and ask them to pray for him, but you don’t? The Letter of James tells people who are sick to summon the presbyters to pray over them, but that doesn’t apply to you?
Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful. James 5:16
L
lonegreywolf20
Guest
Again, for me, prayer for me is a private affair. It is between me and God. I will not ask for prayer.
Whether or not that is in line with scripture (don’t get me started on the Catholic church and not being in line with scripture as I will get banned) it doesn’t matter to me. It is how I choose to have a prayer life.
Whether or not that is in line with scripture (don’t get me started on the Catholic church and not being in line with scripture as I will get banned) it doesn’t matter to me. It is how I choose to have a prayer life.
H
HopkinsReb
Guest
If this is your attitude, please refrain from giving someone advice on what a Christian’s prayer life should look like.
L
lonegreywolf20
Guest
You do realize that the advice I have given is the same advice that I myself was given by a couple priests?
So, I will continue to give the advice that I was given to me by Catholic priests as it is apparently inline with the Catholic church.
I will also say that how I do prayer life if my posts were read correctly is how I DO prayer. I have said that repeatedly. My advice I have given is what I was told by priests.
You will also notice that I said the Catholic church doesn’t require anyone to pray to Mary or the saints in my other replies. Again, inline with the Catholic church.
So, I will continue to give the advice that I was given to me by Catholic priests as it is apparently inline with the Catholic church.
I will also say that how I do prayer life if my posts were read correctly is how I DO prayer. I have said that repeatedly. My advice I have given is what I was told by priests.
You will also notice that I said the Catholic church doesn’t require anyone to pray to Mary or the saints in my other replies. Again, inline with the Catholic church.
Last edited:
H
HopkinsReb
Guest
Well, if you’re not a practicing Catholic and you’re simply telling us how you “do prayer,” that’s off-topic.
- Status