Question from Semi-Returning Catholic

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Let me put it this way:

A girlfriend visits your house. You introduce your mom, dad, brothers & sisters to your friend but your girlfriend refuses to speak to them. She only came to talk with you and not the rest of the family.

Exactly how would you feel about her?

Jesus loves His Mother infinitely more than you love your mother. How do you think He feels when people refuse to speak to His Mother?

Signing off now.
 
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annad347 said:
Can I be a Catholic who respects them, honors them without praying to them?
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You do not have to fully understand the faith to become Catholic. You do not have to do anything but be sincere about your baptismal promises. Renounce Satan, forsake the world, deny the flesh.

God is speaking to you right now. Sounds like he’s calling you home. Come home. Pray to Jesus. Pray to the Holy Spirit. Pray to the Father. Pray to the Holy Trinity.

Come home.
 
Once again, you are praying to the people on this board when you ask us questions. “Pray” means to ask.

“Pray tell, what would you like for supper tonight?”

If you read legal documents, you will often see “Pray the court will take notice of blah blah blah”.
 
Right, I kept seeing “pray to” and kept wanting to remind the OP that catholics don’t pray TO saints in the way people interpret.

As when we ask friends and family to pray for us, we also are asking the saints to offer up our needs when they pray to GOD.
 
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There are very clear distinctions laid out here for the OP in regards to prayer and worship etc…
It is also clear what the community of saints is, and the reality that we are called to communicate with one another as is appropriate.
What is remaining is docility on the part of the believer, rather than intransigence.

Come home, open your heart to the fullness of faith. Catholicism asks the believer to believe more not less. And to accept “both/and”, moving beyond “either/or”.
 
AMEN!!

Over the past couple of decades, there has been great disservice done to language. Now that detailed Grammar & Language is not part of school curriculum, we have lost the idea that words have defined meanings, and that there can be different meanings when a word is used in different situations. I was the kid who loved to read the dictionary.

I understand how shocking it can seem to learn that what I thought was defined is actually far broader and more expansive. We need to keep opening ourselves up to words and the beauty of the meanings they convey.
 
annad347 said:
Then yes I’m asking Mary, the saints to pray for me… but I also including my fellow brothers and sister to pray for me… i
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I am a little confused, you do not consider this a prayer to the saints because it is alongside asking the same thing of your brothers and sisters? That makes little sense to me. It is exactly a prayer to Mary and the saints in the precise manner the Church defines praying to saints.
But I’m not on my knees, bowing my head directly to anyone specific, as I would when reciting the Hale Mary prayer.
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I do not see how posture has anything to do with it. Or do you consider kneeling and bowing one’s head an act of worship?
The more I read your posts: how you accept the Communion of Saints, accept that they intercede for us, but do not want to pray to them, it just seems like you are using your own definition of what is a prayer. You seem to be equating prayer with worship.

If we look at the Hail Mary, the first half is certainly praising Mary, showing her honor. It is not worshiping her as God, if it was than Elizabeth would have been doing that in the Bible when she says the exact same words.
The second half is the exact type of request for intercession which exists in the Confiteor, which you state you have no problem with.

If the issue is just the semantics of what “praying to saints” actually means, then there should be no problem.
 
annad347 said:
But I’m not on my knees, bowing my head directly to anyone specific, as I would when reciting the Hale Mary prayer.
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Does it really have to be said in that manner? Or can you just think it to yourself as you go about your normal business? After all, in the context under discussion, “pray” simply means “ask”. I wonder why it seems to make a difference whether you ask one person or thousands for help?
 
First, prayer is just talking! You can talk to saints. I do think it is an important part of the church. We believe in the communion of saints. We are part of one big family. In the transfigurations Jesus appeared with Moses and ?. Both dead but yet alive! When Peter was crucified groups of people went to his grave to pray! It is not a new idea!
 
annad347 said:
but He doesn’t want us to pray to each other…
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I think the difficulty you have, is in understanding how the word “pray” is being used in relation to the saints.

When we pray to God, we praise and worship Him.

When we pray to saints, we are asking them to pray to God with us. God sees this as praise and worship directed to Him, in the way He created us, and according to His will for us.
 
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Awe! God may be a jealous God but only when we do not give ourselves 100% to Him! Praying to the Saints is a beautiful prayer and very powerful! God LOVES when you reach out! ❤️
 
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Margaret_Ann said:
Jesus loves His Mother infinitely more than you love your mother. How do you think He feels when people refuse to speak to His Mother?
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I think Jesus would know my mind and heart. He’d know I wasn’t refusing to talk to His mother, but that I wouldn’t want to disrespect Him by praying to her… then I’d pray He would understand me.

If someone came to my house and had a problem speaking to any member of my family, I’d want to know why… I’d talk to them about it. I wouldn’t ask them to talk to my family to help me understand their issues with talking to my family… you understand?
 
tafan2 said:
I am a little confused, you do not consider this a prayer to the saints because it is alongside asking the same thing of your brothers and sisters? That makes little sense to me. It is exactly a prayer to Mary and the saints in the precise manner the Church defines praying to saints.
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I meant its not a prayer directly to Mary and the saints like The Hail Mary prayer is. Its not a prayer to my fellow brothers and sister… its not a prayer directly to saints… is a prayer directly to God. That’s my understanding of the prayer, its directness to God.
 
Not sure how I got involved in this particular post - the quote is not mine and I don’t recognize a response to what I did say in your entry. But no matter, I have nothing further to say at this time.
 
“I ask the Blessed virgin Mary, all the angels and saints”. Sounds pretty direct to me.
 
tafan2 said:
If the issue is just the semantics of what “praying to saints” actually means, then there should be no problem.
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whatistrue said:
“pray” simply means “ask”
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To me pray doesn’t simply mean to ask, it is a form of worship, however you say it. To me it will always mean a form of worship that should only be given to God.

I haven’t spoken to my priest yet, but I did bring this up with the members of my class. It came out when we started talking about Joseph. About how brave of a man he is, how brave he was to be strong enough to save Mary’s life… yes, topic for different board.

Anyway, they said a lot of the same things you guys did on this board. Tried to explain Latria, Hyper-Dulia, Dulia… and I think I understand the difference. Explained the difference between prayers in worship to God and prayers to offer honor/respect to Mary… but they also agree there can be a very thin line to between them and that sometimes a person’s mind can take them too far off to the wrong side.

Maybe some of you are right, maybe I’m putting too much emphases into a simple word like pray, but I don’t think I am.

A few of you have said I do NOT have to go through Mary to get to God. All I’m doing is asking for help… and all I’m asking is do I HAVE to in order to worship God in a Catholic church? If I’m not worshiping Mary, praying to Mary in a form of worship just asking for help, then why do I have too if all I want to do is worship God?

She is God’s mother, she is right there with God, talking to Him on my behalf on all our behalf. I appreciate that, I just don’t want to pray to her… because of what the word means to me, yes that’s the only reason… and if you can’t understand that then you don’t really understand my question.

By the way, like I said… I haven’t spoken to the priest yet, but my class seems to think I can be a respectful, practicing Catholic without praying to Mary. It won’t be easy, but who said worshiping God was easy. They did appreciated my honesty with how I felt… and they seem to think my feelings will change in time. God’s will, so who knows.

they suggest I just keep silent during prayers to any saints… and speak to the father when it comes to confessions.

So thanks everyone I think I have my answer. Thank you father in heaven for bringing me here to this board which gave me the strength to return home. God Bless you all.
 
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