Question: If Hell is populated with many damned souls, should this be a consideration for bringing children into the world?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Maximus1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Maximus1

Guest
Many Catholics believe Hell has many many damned souls. I don’t share this view, but maybe they are right. Let’s assume they are.
In considering bringing a child into the world, one imagines a relationship of very special love. One where you take on a nurturing protective and responsible relationship.
It occurs to me that the moment my child is born, it’s fate might be hell. And some opine hell is full of souls so the percentages make the outcome of hell for a child very real.
The ramification of my decision to have a child is a significant chance that this child that I love will be damned. Without hope. Tormented AND SUFFERING for eternity.
The problem is obvious. It is my choice and I set events in motion. I do not think I could handle the outcome that my choice might bring about. Would anyone want to bring a damned child into the world?
 
Last edited:
Your logic is faulty. You assume that people would be bringing a damned child into the world. You cannot make assumptions on how people’s lives will end up.

And how is anyone saving a child from damnation if it is never born? That doesn’t make any sense.
 
As Catholics we pray that no one chooses hell, however, we respect the free will of those who do make that choice.

When we have a child, we baptize that child shortly after birth. This removes the stain of original sin, this infuses supernatural graces, we teach our children about God and love and mercy and forgiveness.

That child might grow up and disavow his family, may reject God, may choose all manner of things. That child has free will to break curfew or to write a symphony or to choose hell.
 
I didn’t make an assumption about how my child would live. My hope is my child would live a good life and go to heaven.
The statistical reality with a heavily populated hell tells a rational person that it is a gamble. Especially if I bring multiple children into the world.
I must consider the ramification now, because I have one choice now.
In terms of your second point, I think eternal torment and suffering with no hope is a reality worse than never existing. And it gets selfish here I admit. Let’s say I will be saved. I would know I was responsible for bringing my beloved child into the world who is damned. I would not choose that. And again my choice is yes or no today.
 
Maximus1 said:
In terms of your second point, I think eternal torment and suffering with no hope is a reality worse than never existing.
Click to expand...
It’s the reality they want.
Maximus1 said:
Let’s say I will be saved.
Click to expand...
How could you know that in your scenario?
Maximus1 said:
I would know I was responsible for bringing my beloved child into the world who is damned.
Click to expand...
But you’re not responsible for their damnation. This thought process is border-line Albegensian.
 
I posed this question personally. For everyone. So we cannot escape into the " rules" so to speak as applied to a theoretical parent and child.
Your words are wonderful if you are sitting in a toga on a big rock with Cicero.
I am talking about your son. Who if born, you will love and feel a parents responsibility for. It is his free will that concerns me.
Free will to be damned to suffer for eternity is dubious if one seeks to imagine it a gift.
I am a bottom line thinker who is thinking about statistical reality before I bring a child into the world.
He might not be damned or even more likely than not does not change my real concern. I plan a big family and plan to love them all.
It’s the reality they want you say!
It is irrational to want eternal damnation and torment. Eternal suffering with no hope.
That wanting itself shows a man not of sound mind.
 
Last edited:
14 “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more.17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master’s money.

19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good andfaithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’

22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’

24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’

26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Click to expand...
Fear of failure is never an adequate excuse for inaction.

Fear of someone else’s failure is an even worse excuse for inaction.
 
Maximus1 said:
I posed this question personally. For everyone. So we cannot escape into the " rules" so to speak as applied to a theoretical parent and child.
Your words are wonderful if you are sitting in a toga on a big rock with Cicero.
I am talking about your son. Who if born, you will love and feel a parents responsibility for. It is his free will that concerns me.
Free will to be damned to suffer for eternity is dubious if one seeks to imagine it a gift.
I am a bottom line thinker who is thinking about statistical reality before I bring a child into the world.
He might not be damned or even more likely than not does not change my real concern. I plan a big family and plan to love them all.
It’s the reality they want you say!
It I irrational to want eternal damnation and torment. Eternal suffering with no hope.
That wanting itself shows a man not of sound mind.
Click to expand...
God desires that all become adopted sons and share in divinity, yet this cannot occur without free will to choose charity. There is of course no sharing without birth. “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it” was said to Adam and Eve (Gen 1:28).

All sin is contrary to reason, yet there are still those that choose between two goods and choose the lesser good even fully aware of the commandment not to.

Catechism
1872 Sin is an act contrary to reason. It wounds man’s nature and injures human solidarity.

1860 … Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. …
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You say," It’s the reality they want."
I assume you have sinned in your life. Did you want eternal damnation when you sinned?
Wouldn’t that be an irrational desire. And if irrational, how is it done with adequate mens rea to be culpable?
 
My children are born to be saints, inspire saints and create saints. They are born to defeat hell and it’s goals.
 
Fear in this case is rational and reasonable.
I fear, to my bones, that my beloved child will be condemned to hell for eternity.
Personally I think it irrational to poo poo that fear as somehow misguided.
Perhaps I am able to fully appreciate the reality and am not shielded by the hypothetical aspect of things.
People are always suggesting the merits of running into the burning building to others. As Tyson said, everyone has a plan till they get punched in thr face. This is a decision now. Can’t be changed. I am not talking about any earthly suffering which can be remedied in heaven. This is born, a short life, and damnation forever.
 
I hope they are. Believe me. But hope does not translate to reality apparently.
I am sure the parents of the damned had hope. ,
 
Maximus1 said:
The problem is obvious. It is my choice and I set events in motion. I do not think I could handle the outcome that my choice might bring about. Would anyone want to bring a damned child into the world?
Click to expand...
The answer seems clear to me.
God is love, and there is no love greater than God’s love.
God made the human race knowing that in giving us free will He was giving us the choice to turn away from love, a choice that would result in damnation.
God made the human race, anyway. That choice and that risk must be necessary for our greatest good.
Therefore, bringing someone into existence knowing that they may choose a bad life is still by definition something that an infinitely loving Being would do.
Despair in advance over poor choices a child might make is not the attitude to have while parenting. It is not loving, and it will drive the parent nutty. It will eventually make them into controlling and neurotic parents whose desire to control the lives of their children will ruin their loving relationship with them.
God isn’t a control freak. That isn’t what love is. Human parents shouldn’t be that way, either.
 
Last edited:
Maximus1 said:
I fear, to my bones, that my beloved child will be condemned to hell for eternity.
Personally I think it irrational to poo poo that fear as somehow misguided.
Click to expand...
Um, how many infants have you had?

How many infants have you been around as an adult?

How long have you been an adult?

Infants are, like, the most pure things in the world. And they learn very, very quickly. And as they grow, and start doing things, you see, “Ah, they’re doing x because I taught them x, even if I didn’t realize it.” And your own actions are magnified in them, because they don’t have that self-consciousness to tone down the bad, the way we do to to be socially acceptable and just get along.

Small children who are learning about the world are very educational. They teach us (a) about our own relationships with our parents (“Oh, now I realize why Mom always did so-and-so” or “Mmm, I never liked it when Dad did x. I’m totally not going to do x.”") and (b) teach us about our relationships with God (“Ahhhhh, they’re so focused on what they want, they’re upset that they’re not getting it---- but they don’t understand I have something better for them just fifteen minutes down the road, if they’ll just calm down!”)

Childrens’ souls are like God entrusting a garden to us. We can tend that garden to the best of our ability, and teach them how to be gardeners, so that they ultimately learn how to tend their gardens/souls correctly. Then the garden is in their hands to continue to maintain, and they become future gardeners for others themselves. But if we’re careless with the gardens/souls, and don’t bother teaching the kid how to live mindfully— then we’re going to be accountable to God for it. Not just for them---- but for their future failures, and those future failures, and so on, because that knowledge has been lost. We’re all connected, and the effects of our work ripple through time, for the good and for the bad. Which is why the Final Judgment can’t happen before the End of Time— because our legacy outlives us, to one degree or another. But the same thing is true for instilling the good that gets passed down to our grandchildren, our great-grandchildren, and our great-great grandchildren, and so on…

And that’s what Catholicism is. Its focus isn’t on the here and now; the focus is on the eternal, and we understand that our here and now is important to the degree that it has an effect upon our eternity. And the whole purpose of having a family is to help each other get to heaven. You’re not just a group of people who live under the same roof for a period of time and share a data plan.

But unless you believe that humans are born in Total Depravity, or unless you believe in the sort of Predestination where nothing you can do can save yourself— then you will see having a family as an opportunity to grow in your ability to love and serve God by loving and serving others.
 
Last edited:
I’m fine if you made the decision not to have children.
I know plenty of people who were baptized as babies, raised in the church, made the decision as a teen that all of that was stupid. They married, raised their families and are grandparents. Don’t know how it will end for them but they had many advantages growing up and counted it all as rubbish.

I also know people who were people of faith and prayer and lead lives of virtue. They brought blessing to their families, their school, their workplace, their parishes. Went through tough events in life and still held on to God’s hand.

So I guess the bottom line is, do you trust God enough to bring a child into the world? Trust God to intervene in their lives, to inject faith and love? I see this as a faith struggle.

May God bless and keep you.
 
And the parents of the saved have hope as well. We all have hope as long as we were created.
 
Maximus1 said:
You say," It’s the reality they want."
I assume you have sinned in your life. Did you want eternal damnation when you sinned?
Click to expand...
The only sin that would cause that is mortal sin. But either way, each and every time I’ve sinned, mortal and venial, I’ve rejected God. I wanted to hold my will and desires over His. So yes.
Maximus1 said:
Wouldn’t that be an irrational desire.
Click to expand...
That doesn’t mean it’s one I can’t make freely.
 
I don’t want to be a control freak.
Before that is even a possibility, I am considering abstinence or conception, that is all. You are getting ahead.
God is love! We agree! There is an answer to this, but I can assure you if some Catholics are right about the NARROW GATE, hell is a very real possibility. Globally, perhaps probability.
Next
Eternal damnation is what we are talking about
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top