Question: Is there 'bible worship' concerns among some protestants?

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dronald said:
Certainly we would have to know the context, I agree. For example, if I walk into a Catholic Church and I see the veneration of Mary going on I know as someone who loves Catholicism that they are not worshiping Mary. It just most certainly appears this way to someone who doesn’t know Catholicism. I can imagine some of my friends would immediately want to point those people to focus more on Jesus and focus less on Mary. That’s just the Protestant mindset.

Yes, and I love that your focus is on Christ. I suppose if it helps, it helps; it just isn’t for me.

Here is an analogy to help you grasp the big picture of what a relationship with God looks like because it is certainly not what you are painting, just a me and Jesus only relationship. (keep in mind that Jesus was born into a family and so are we when we are baptized.):

This is an admirable point and I was discussing this with a couple of friends today actually. We were discussing how God can have many different types of Churches. In our Church we listen to uplifting contemporary Christian music with drums and everything. We lift our hands high and focus completely on God, it’s quite beautiful. But we also talked about how at some Churches the attendants stand in their pews, hold a book of songs and sing in harmony to an older style of music. If someone from that Church walked into mine it may not be right for them, and if I walked into theirs it wouldn’t be right for me.

As long as we’re glorifying God and our hearts are set on Him, then we can’t lose.

Sounds like religious relativism to me…:eek:
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dronald said:
I think its because Protestants don’t want to venerate their Bible while worshiping God. We just want to worship God, that’s it that’s all.

If bowing to a statue helps you focus on God then that’s fine I suppose, it certainly doesn’t help me. Just like how some people believe praying naked helps because Adam and Eve would. I don’t think praying naked helps me, but if it helps you then all the best to you.
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This earlier post is what I was reacting to.
dronald said:
Here’s my quote for you before we began discussing. Typo’s included!
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I am sorry if I came down hard on you. Have been dealing with a difficult poster in another thread and the attitude carried over. I must beg your forgiveness for any lack of charity.
 
dronald said:
I don’t believe that Catholics worship Mary, but what happens to a regular ole Protestant who knows nothing about Catholicism when they see a picture of Mary dressed like a queen with beautiful flowers and decorations around her, and people kneel in front of the picture, holding beads in their hands which also helps them pray… Such can come across as idolatry to a Protestant who would do no such thing.

No Protestant believes a statue can help us pray better, or a picture, or a rosary. I love Catholicism and may be a Catholic one day but I can imagine the look on some of my friends faces when they see how highly exalted Mary is. No Protestant wants to ever focus on anyone but Jesus Christ, and I don’t think any Catholic should be able to criticize a Protestant for that.

I would assume that if any Christian would kneel down and pray facing their Bible, or pray to a painting of a Bible then any Protestant would object. Protestants are strict that it’s US----JESUS-------FATHER and nothing else. No object, no person.
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Catholics do worship Mary. Not statues or pictures. Just what they represent.
 
dronald said:
I believe it was in reply to PR saying he kneels before a statue. My comment that those who bow to statues wasn’t about idol worship at all, but rather that I believe the act of kneeling before or bowing to a statue can be rejected. Not on the argument of idol worship (by the way I understand why you may think that’s my argument since many Protestants DO in fact make those claims) but on the argument that it is not necessary for every Christian. Especially when it is a matter of conscience.
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No one legitimately bows to a statue. No one “worships” plaster or wood and any Catholic or Orthodox who does commits the sin of idolatry.

What is happening is a Catholic or Orthodox prays in front of a Icon or statue or painting as a idea of Jesus the Theotokos or Saint the prayers go to the person depicted in the art, and not to the art itself.

Perhaps people are taking offence at your wording “bow to a statue”? No one does.
 
In speaking with the local fundamentalist majority I often hear that they interpret the 1st chapter of John “In the beginning…and the Word was God” to mean the Word as the bible instead of Jesus. It is Jesus who is spoken of here and not the bible.

To me at least this seems to imply that at least some or many fundamentalists and evangelicals believe that the bible is considered to be God by them.

It also does not help that they constantly in conversation speak of the Word (bible) with huge reverence. I get a feeling that the bible comes first, then Jesus.

How could this be interpreted other than being bible worship?
 
andrewstx said:
In speaking with the local fundamentalist majority I often hear that they interpret the 1st chapter of John “In the beginning…and the Word was God” to mean the Word as the bible instead of Jesus. It is Jesus who is spoken of here and not the bible.

To me at least this seems to imply that at least some or many fundamentalists and evangelicals believe that the bible is considered to be God by them.

It also does not help that they constantly in conversation speak of the Word (bible) with huge reverence. I get a feeling that the bible comes first, then Jesus.

How could this be interpreted other than being bible worship?
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Can you cite me a source of a Protestant denomination that believes this? You’re “getting a feeling” so I assume your feeling is based on fact. I’ve said this enough, no Protestant worships their Bible. And no denomination believes the Word (capital “W”) means Bible.
 
mayogirl25 said:
Catholics do worship Mary. Not statues or pictures. Just what they represent.
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Again, one can see why from a Protestant point of view why Catholic beliefs can be so confusing. I’ve taken the time to come to understand Catholics so I know that when I read this you’re either:

A: Not following Catholic doctrine or
B: Using “worship” in a different sense

Just pointing out our dillema here.
 
andrewstx said:
No one legitimately bows to a statue. No one “worships” plaster or wood and any Catholic or Orthodox who does commits the sin of idolatry.

What is happening is a Catholic or Orthodox prays in front of a Icon or statue or painting as a idea of Jesus the Theotokos or Saint the prayers go to the person depicted in the art, and not to the art itself.

Perhaps people are taking offence at your wording “bow to a statue”? No one does.
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You know something? I want to modify your initial statement here very slightly. No one legitimately bows to a statue. Period. Non-Christians included. Like certain types of Hindus or Buddhists or people who might go to a Ba’hai temple to worship, or even some of these animistic tribal religions. No one legitimately worships a statue or figure of their own creation.

Everyone who does this kind of thing has a similar explanation. We don’t do what you think we’re doing- and we are pretty sure we know what you think we’re doing. We don’t worship statues, in case you were confused, which I’m pretty sure you were. The statue is a representation, and we pray in front of it to what is “behind” it- to the thing that is represented.

This is basically the same explanation that’s given by everyone. And I mean everyone who bows down in front of an icon or statue or fetish or god or idol or whatever.

Have you ever been to a Ba’hai temple? If you show up and say who you are, there should be someone there who can show you around, show you the statues and idols, the various rooms people go into and the different things they do. You’ll be able to see the reverence shown to the various icons, the ritualistic ablution of certain figurines and so forth.

And you’ll get an explanation about the type of prayer that is offered there. Oh, you say you’re a Christian, well I know what you’re thinking. We don’t actually worship these figures, they just act as things that focus our minds in a particular…oh no, sir, no need. No problems here. I have some icons of my own, I understand completely.
 
dronald said:
Can you cite me a source of a Protestant denomination that believes this? You’re “getting a feeling” so I assume your feeling is based on fact. I’ve said this enough, no Protestant worships their Bible. And no denomination believes the Word (capital “W”) means Bible.
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Unfortunately you do not have substantial evidence to prove that no Protestant worships their Bible. Likewise, no Catholic here has concrete evidence to claim NO Catholic worships Mary or a statue. Far to many Catholics in the world and Protestants to know exactly who is guilty of such a practice.

God Bless
 
dronald said:
Again, one can see why from a Protestant point of view why Catholic beliefs can be so confusing. I’ve taken the time to come to understand Catholics so I know that when I read this you’re either:

A: Not following Catholic doctrine or
B: Using “worship” in a different sense

Just pointing out our dillema here.
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Well I have heard from former Protestants (Dr. Scott Hahn, Seven Ray,etc) state Protestants (no all Protestant denominations) can at times have a different understanding of certain words such as worship and pray.
 
dronald said:
Can you cite me a source of a Protestant denomination that believes this? You’re “getting a feeling” so I assume your feeling is based on fact. I’ve said this enough, no Protestant worships their Bible. And no denomination believes the Word (capital “W”) means Bible.
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I disagree. I have personally heard several preachers read the verses in John about the Word of God, then immediately point to their bible and tell us “And this is the Word of God.”

Calling the bible “The Word” (with a capital “W”) is also very common. “Let’s get into the Word” or “It’s time to study the Word” is common, everyday speech for people like my dad and many countless others. But of course, when said aloud there is no way to know if the “w” is capitalized or not… 😉
 
Monergistic said:
You know something? I want to modify your initial statement here very slightly. No one legitimately bows to a statue. Period. Non-Christians included. Like certain types of Hindus or Buddhists or people who might go to a Ba’hai temple to worship, or even some of these animistic tribal religions. No one legitimately worships a statue or figure of their own creation.

Everyone who does this kind of thing has a similar explanation. We don’t do what you think we’re doing- and we are pretty sure we know what you think we’re doing. We don’t worship statues, in case you were confused, which I’m pretty sure you were. The statue is a representation, and we pray in front of it to what is “behind” it- to the thing that is represented.

This is basically the same explanation that’s given by everyone. And I mean everyone who bows down in front of an icon or statue or fetish or god or idol or whatever.

Have you ever been to a Ba’hai temple? If you show up and say who you are, there should be someone there who can show you around, show you the statues and idols, the various rooms people go into and the different things they do. You’ll be able to see the reverence shown to the various icons, the ritualistic ablution of certain figurines and so forth.

And you’ll get an explanation about the type of prayer that is offered there. Oh, you say you’re a Christian, well I know what you’re thinking. We don’t actually worship these figures, they just act as things that focus our minds in a particular…oh no, sir, no need. No problems here. I have some icons of my own, I understand completely.
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I agree. I have encountered many pagans who have statues, altars, and pray to their pagan gods. Most of them say they do not “worship” their gods, and liken their practice to the way that Catholics revere the Saints.

A good number of these people are former Catholics, for some reason. So I expect they know what they are talking about when it comes to Catholic practices.
 
Tobias65 said:
I disagree. I have personally heard several preachers read the verses in John about the Word of God, then immediately point to their bible and tell us “And this is the Word of God.”

Calling the bible “The Word” (with a capital “W”) is also very common. “Let’s get into the Word” or “It’s time to study the Word” is common, everyday speech for people like my dad and many countless others. But of course, when said aloud there is no way to know if the “w” is capitalized or not… 😉
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I would like to know which denomination this is though, or the name of the preacher. All these accusations stem from “well I heard my friend once say” but I don’t see any evidence.

Video proof, or the Church’s website proclaiming this practice would be enough, thanks.
 
dronald said:
I would like to know which denomination this is though, or the name of the preacher. All these accusations stem from “well I heard my friend once say” but I don’t see any evidence.

Video proof, or the Church’s website proclaiming this practice would be enough, thanks.
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Lutherans do it. Authority: Lutheran pastor.

As for the “why”: the Word that is proclaimed aloud is the same Word who became incarnate in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
 
dronald said:
I would like to know which denomination this is though, or the name of the preacher. All these accusations stem from “well I heard my friend once say” but I don’t see any evidence.

Video proof, or the Church’s website proclaiming this practice would be enough, thanks.
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I was raised in Non-Denominational Bible-Believing Christianity. My parents were rather devout, took me to church all the time, and I spent 9 years of my youth as a missionary kid while they served with Wycliffe Bible Translators.

Sorry, I don’t have any other proof besides my word. Most church services I’ve been in were not video recorded, as the technology has only been developed over the past couple decades and still is not used in most churches to my knowledge.
 
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