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estesbob
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You need to read Forum Guidelines. We do not question other beleifs. Period.
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Verity1
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Rubbish! She calls herself Catholic in the same post as she says that abortion is acceptable in some circumstances. It isn’t. The Church says it isn’t. You can’t be a practising Catholic and hold that view.
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Verity1
Guest
Will do, but if the Forum Guidelines state that it is wrong to correct a scandalously erroneous statement by someone suggesting that it is in -line with Catholicism, then the PC world has finally won.
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Verity1
Guest
I thought that’s what we were doing?
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Verity1
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I accept you’re torn. But, what would you say to the baby who’s life is deemed unacceptable?
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mikew262
Guest
You pronounced her a non-Catholic based upon her actions. That is judging, which is not your place. End of story.
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mikew262
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I don’t know, thats why I’m torn.
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mikew262
Guest
Question actions and opinions all you want, not beliefs.
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Verity1
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Ah. That sounds like a cop-out, Mike. Don’t you think that they deserve to be given a reason why their life is to be ended?
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Verity1
Guest
If I say I’m a Catholic, but I believe in divorce/re-marriage, am I a practising Catholic? If I say I’m a Catholic, but I believe in pre-marital sex sometimes, am I a practising Catholic? If I say I’m a Catholic, but I believe that it’s OK to sometimes murder innocent people, am I a practising Catholic? If I say I’m a Catholic, but I believe that sometimes adultery is acceptable, am I a practising Catholic? NO, I’m not. I may not be culpable, because of invincible ignorance or whatever, but I would NOT be a practising Catholic. That is not a personal judgement on the state of my own soul. It’s just a fact. Otherwise, WHAT does it mean to be Catholic?
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mikew262
Guest
This is the best answer I can give you at this time. Accept it or not. You ask a good question, definitely food for thought. You’ve made your point.
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Verity1
Guest
Semantics again. A Catholic has got to believe what the Church teaches. Otherwise, they aren’t practising Catholics. To borrow your phrase, end of story.
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Verity1
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I do accept it. Thanks, and best wishes on your pondering.
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mikew262
Guest
These are all your personal opinions. All Catholics sin, does this mean they cease to be Catholic, no not IMO. If so, the church would be truly an empty place. Part of being a Catholic is being charitable, even to somebody you feel is sinning. Is your attack on this particular person’s faith charitable? Instead of condemning her, why don’t you in a less aggressive/zealot like manner try to show her the error of her ways. I believe Jesus gave you a pretty good example of how that is done.
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Brendan
Guest
That is exactly what should be questioned.
A belief, by defintion is the Intellectual commitment to the truth of a proposition.
When one believes something, one holds intellectually that a particular statement is True.
That, by definition is a matter than can be debated.
This differs from an Opinion, which is a predisposition to the Truth of a proposition.
Are you seriously trying to state that a belief may not be questioned? If so, what would be the point of a debate, to engage in an intellectual examination of the proposition in question?
If you encountered someone who belived that the Earth was flat, or that penquins were actually a form of insect, that you would not attempt to convince them otherwise?
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Verity1
Guest
I’ve re-read them now, thanks. I see nothing in what I wrote which was against the rules. If a person attaches the name “Catholic” to their name, it is my right to challenge them if they express views which are directly contrary to Catholic teaching. Of course I question the beliefs of a a professing Catholic who believes in abortion!!! Naturally, if she did not profess to be Catholic, the situation would be different.
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mikew262
Guest
I know being rude is covered in the rules.
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mikew262
Guest
I consider passing judgment on somebody’s faith as rude and over the line. I may disagree with somebody, and challenge what they are saying, but that’s as far as it goes.
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mikew262
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I suggest we get back on thread, or we are going to be closed down. Maybe that is best.
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Verity1
Guest
“These are all your personal opinions.”
NO! They’re not! They are what the Church teaches.
“All Catholics sin, does this mean they cease to be Catholic, no not IMO.”
Of course all Catholics sin, and of course this does not mean they cease to be Catholic. BUT, they must acknowledge that they sin! They must strive to overcome their sin. They mustn’t say “because I’m weak, and I can see that this situation might be a temptation to me, I think it might be OK if I did it”.
“Part of being a Catholic is being charitable, even to somebody you feel is sinning.”
Is it charity to let something go on thinking/believing something that you know is deeply wrong?
“Is your attack on this particular person’s faith charitable?”
I don’t attack this person. I attack her statement that she is a Catholic but that she believes in abortion “sometimes”. NO. The two do not go together.
“Instead of condemning her, why don’t you in a less aggressive/zealot like manner try to show her the error of her ways.”
Well, maybe this is a cultural thing. I didn’t intend my statement to be aggressive. I was just stating a fact. Where I come from, we call a spade a spade, and no-one takes offence. I value the truth you see, but I take your point that perhaps I should have phrased it better.
NO! They’re not! They are what the Church teaches.
“All Catholics sin, does this mean they cease to be Catholic, no not IMO.”
Of course all Catholics sin, and of course this does not mean they cease to be Catholic. BUT, they must acknowledge that they sin! They must strive to overcome their sin. They mustn’t say “because I’m weak, and I can see that this situation might be a temptation to me, I think it might be OK if I did it”.
“Part of being a Catholic is being charitable, even to somebody you feel is sinning.”
Is it charity to let something go on thinking/believing something that you know is deeply wrong?
“Is your attack on this particular person’s faith charitable?”
I don’t attack this person. I attack her statement that she is a Catholic but that she believes in abortion “sometimes”. NO. The two do not go together.
“Instead of condemning her, why don’t you in a less aggressive/zealot like manner try to show her the error of her ways.”
Well, maybe this is a cultural thing. I didn’t intend my statement to be aggressive. I was just stating a fact. Where I come from, we call a spade a spade, and no-one takes offence. I value the truth you see, but I take your point that perhaps I should have phrased it better.
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