question on abortion

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mikew262:
How do you think Vatican II came about? Maybe we had a few progressive thinkers?
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I think progressive also shouldn’t have liberal and conservative attached to it. I’m a pretty staunch conservative (I mean politicly not using the term for Church) but I find myself more progressive than many other conservatives.
 
Hi mom of one , i know non of what happened to me and my friend were our faults ,only society and how they react ,blame us, because of the way things happened we do not have the right to question some one if they decide to abort , when i have spoken to pro life members ,they bypass many of the issuses , we face every day ,and the way these women are treated ,i callenged one on national radio in England ,he refused to reply to my questions ,he said he was a Catholic Christian ???,one last thing at 13 years old i decided never to have chidren
 
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michaelmac:
Hi mom of one , i know non of what happened to me and my friend were our faults ,only society and how they react ,blame us, because of the way things happened we do not have the right to question some one if they decide to abort , when i have spoken to pro life members ,they bypass many of the issuses , we face every day ,and the way these women are treated ,i callenged one on national radio in England ,he refused to reply to my questions ,he said he was a Catholic Christian ???,one last thing at 13 years old i decided never to have chidren
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I am not quite sure I see the connection your situation and abortion. What I do see is a woman consumed with anger and self pity. I have a friend who is in the exact same situation as yours but is filled with joy, acitve in the pro-life movement and anxious to help others that have went through what she went through.

I suggest you get some professional counseling. Meanwhile you will be in my prayers.
 
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AugustineFL:
I don’t know about questioning someone’s beliefs as being against the rules of the board. Questions about people beliefs seem to be what this board is about! I’m sure harassing someone is however against the board, I fear I may be getting close to that, so I’ll stop! I don’t want to get you angry and irate and I know I’ve done that…shame on me. I honestly was trying to get you to try to refute my position to yourself to get you to question it and make sure that it is right with God. I probably could have done that with less postings.

Thank you for the complement (on commending my devoutness). I wouldn’t ever describe myself that way, honestly. It’s something I still need a lot of work at! I honestly would NOT say I’m a better Catholic than you. I assure you I agree with you when you say I have some work to do! I’ve already said I’m praying for you. (by the way I do NOT ask God to make you believe what I do…then it would be my will and I could be wrong about what I think should happen! I ask for his will to be done and for you to grow closer and closer to Him). I sincerely mean it when I say I’d appreciate the prayers of you or anyone else to help me be closer to God and the Truth.

So finally in closing. Accept my public apology. I still believe what I do. You still believe what you do. But I call it a truce and I am more than willing to concede that I was at fault many times. For example, I responded mostly with anger at something that I take very very very personally. I lost my first little baby before he was born and so it hits very close to home with me. So much so that I’m sure I responded wrongly.

So, if I respond any more at all to this than I will try to not post at all if I feel my temper rising. Maybe a write the post in a word document and read it latter after I cool down! The post that really upset you here is one that I actually thought about trying to go back and delete or edit but couldn’t find a way how!
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Again, apology accepted. It is easy sometimes to get worked up on this forum. I am sorry that you lost your baby. My deep condolences.
 
estesbob ,my point is if my friends mother had aborted ,she might not have spent the last 30 years mentel hospital ,those great people who forsed a young girl to have her own fathers baby never once helped her after she had the baby,also her child would not have been abused if those so called great people had helped her , i have no self pity only anger ,and i use my anger to get some sort of justice for abuse victims , one question would you listen to some body who says all abortion is wrong ,knowing he lied about the abuse of children yours michaelmac
 
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michaelmac:
estesbob ,my point is if my friends mother had aborted ,she might not have spent the last 30 years mentel hospital ,those great people who forsed a young girl to have her own fathers baby never once helped her after she had the baby,also her child would not have been abused if those so called great people had helped her , i have no self pity only anger ,and i use my anger to get some sort of justice for abuse victims , one question would you listen to some body who says all abortion is wrong ,knowing he lied about the abuse of children yours michaelmac
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Of course if your friends Mother had had had an abrotion you wouldnt have your friend. And would you have been better off if your Mother had aborted you??

Based on my experience mental millness is a disease that can be triggered by all sorts of things-it is just as likely that your friends Mother would have ended up with mental problems as a result of having an abortion as she did with having an abused child…

I can not accept the thesis that a child would be better off dead than being abused. There is just too much evidence to refute this. Again because of the minsitries I am involved in I have the blessing of working with many ,many marvelous people-many of whom were abused-some more egregiously than you can imagine. Yet they lives lifes filled with joy and they turn their horrible experiences into an opportunity to share that joy with those who were similarly abused I can not imagine how much poorer the world would be if they had been aborted.

Michaelmac the abuse victoims you are talking about dont need justice, they dont need righteous anger,they need healing… Healing comes from the Lord and is available to all who seek it. I suggest you put your anger aside, forgive those who have wronged you and start enjoying of being a child of God. You can do far more good for abuse victims by loving them and exposing them to the love of God than you can by ranting against the evil people who harmed them.
 
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estesbob:
Of course if your friends Mother had had had an abrotion you wouldnt have your friend. And would you have been better off if your Mother had aborted you??

Based on my experience mental millness is a disease that can be triggered by all sorts of things-it is just as likely that your friends Mother would have ended up with mental problems as a result of having an abortion as she did with having an abused child…

I can not accept the thesis that a child would be better off dead than being abused. There is just too much evidence to refute this. Again because of the minsitries I am involved in I have the blessing of working with many ,many marvelous people-many of whom were abused-some more egregiously than you can imagine. Yet they lives lifes filled with joy and they turn their horrible experiences into an opportunity to share that joy with those who were similarly abused I can not imagine how much poorer the world would be if they had been aborted.

Michaelmac the abuse victoims you are talking about dont need justice, they dont need righteous anger,they need healing… Healing comes from the Lord and is available to all who seek it. I suggest you put your anger aside, forgive those who have wronged you and start enjoying of being a child of God. You can do far more good for abuse victims by loving them and exposing them to the love of God than you can by ranting against the evil people who harmed them.
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👍
 
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mikew262:
I suppose its a matter of semantics. Its obvious that some ways the church did business changed. This is why so many traditionlist (conservative) Catholics disagreed with it.

BTW,we are way off the thread topic here.
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Have you actually read any of the documents?

There are very few traditional (conservative) Catholics who disagree with Vatican II. They only disagree with some false things people say happened in Vatican II.

Even the head of the SSPX voted FOR 15 of the 16 Vatican II documents, including Sacrosactum Concillorum, the document on the Liturgy.

Then again *Sacrosactum Concillorum * ephasized the primacy of Latin and Gregorian Chant in the liturgy and put in a requirement that all the faithful should be able to say their Mass responses in Latin.

So the “conservatives” you mention are VERY interested in Vatican II, they’re just waiting for it to actually be implemented 😉
 
Catholic mommy:
I’m with Jonah, so is my husband. Although we believe abortion is murder and wrong, we simply could not let our 11 year old daughter go through with a pregnancy.
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Then you shouldn’t be calling yourself “Catholic” mommy.
 
“I know I am going against the Catholic church with my feelings, luckily this situation in my life in hypothetical…”

Yep.
 
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Verity1:
Then you shouldn’t be calling yourself “Catholic” mommy.
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Ah, another person pronouncing judgement on somebody else. I’m sure God appreciates the help.
 
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Verity1:
Then you shouldn’t be calling yourself “Catholic” mommy.
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Your post is about as far outside the bounds of the expected discourse in these forums as one can get. I dont agree with catholic Mommy but i would never in a million years insult her the way you just did.
 
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estesbob:
You know the State needs to look into the hellhole you work at. A place full of teen aged pregnant rape victims who cant bond with their children and where woman physically abuse their children, aparently with no interference form the staff?

If you could email me privately the name of this place ill get CPC to look inot it.
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Exactly! Sounds like something you would read in a “Flowers in the Attic” type novel…
 
“In your opinion.”

Well, no. Obviously the result of abortion is a dead baby.

Mike, if it was possible for you to speak to the “condemned” (ie, product of incest, rape etc), how would you explain to them that you consider that they should be killed, if that’s what mommy wants? You’d have to tell them of course that you don’t usually approve of this kind of thing, but THEY are different, and don’t come under the usual rules. How’d you do that in your own mind?
 
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mikew262:
Again, apology accepted. It is easy sometimes to get worked up on this forum. I am sorry that you lost your baby. My deep condolences.
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Thank you for accepting the apology…and thank you for your condolences.
 
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estesbob:
Your post is about as far outside the bounds of the expected discourse in these forums as one can get. I dont agree with catholic Mommy but i would never in a million years insult her the way you just did.
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I agree!
 
Verity1 said:
“In your opinion.”

Well, no. Obviously the result of abortion is a dead baby.

Mike, if it was possible for you to speak to the “condemned” (ie, product of incest, rape etc), how would you explain to them that you consider that they should be killed, if that’s what mommy wants? You’d have to tell them of course that you don’t usually approve of this kind of thing, but THEY are different, and don’t come under the usual rules. How’d you do that in your own mind?
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If you’ll review my posts, I said I was torn on this. Your post certainly has merit, but I see the other side as well.
 
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mikew262:
Ah, another person pronouncing judgement on somebody else. I’m sure God appreciates the help.
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Read the post properly Mike. I’m not judging the person, only the sentiment. She is not, in fact, a Catholic, either a mommy, daddy or anything else, if she condones abortion under ANy circumstances. That’s what the Church teaches. End of story.
 
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