question on abortion

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Whoa, this life is not the end all be all to existance, would you give your daughter a choice to drink poison or water while telling her the poison tastes ok but the water is sort of bland? whew, man how will you feel if she has to pay for that sin in the only life which lasts forever.
 
would you give your daughter a choice to drink poison or water while telling her the poison tastes ok but the water is sort of bland?
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What? :confused:
:rolleyes: Yes, and I would give her a snake if she asked for a loaf of bread!
whew, man how will you feel if she has to pay for that sin in the only life which lasts forever.
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I really doubt that God would hold a sin like that against an ELEVEN year old. An 11 year old that was brutely raped and pregnated by her rapist. An 11 year old that has been traumatized for life, (what do you know about rape anyway?) . She was probably 10 years old or just turned 11 when she was raped.

If God would send an 11 year old to hell for an abortion. Then I refuse to worship such a god. Imagin the rapist and the little girl he raped sharing hell… Good Grief.

I thank God, that He alone knows my heart and I don’t have to explain anything to Him.
 
Jonah said:
What? :confused:
:rolleyes: Yes, and I would give her a snake if she asked for a loaf of bread!

I really doubt that God would hold a sin like that against an ELEVEN year old. An 11 year old that was brutely raped and pregnated by her rapist. An 11 year old that has been traumatized for life, (what do you know about rape anyway?) . She was probably 10 years old or just turned 11 when she was raped.

If God would send an 11 year old to hell for an abortion. Then I refuse to worship such a god. Imagin the rapist and the little girl he raped sharing hell… Good Grief.

I thank God, that He alone knows my heart and I don’t have to explain anything to Him.
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With God all things are possible when we trust Him completely. Only God can turn evil into good.

I understand your strong feelings, but Jesus is still Lord of all.
 
Dorothy, they are just “that” feelings.

Emotions that have been planted there by life experience good ones and bad ones.

My daughter brought a friend over to talk to me. She wanted to have an abortion. She was so afraid of her parents that she had already made an abortion appointment for that Monday.

It was Sunday morning when this little girl came over. Talking her out of the abortions was one of scariest thing I have ever experienced. I gave her all the health reasons why she shouldn’t, all the emotional reasons why she shouldn’t, she decided to have the baby. She thanked me for talking her out of it and I thanked her for letting me talk her out of it. She was 17.
 
People, ease up on Jonah. She is responding as a mother who feels horrified at the thought of her daughter going through that. She is responding from her life experiences, as well. I think she is wrong, so don’t flame me, however, I understand where she is coming from.
 
With all this LOVE here, this would be the last place I would come to to get talked OUT of an abortion!
 
Ummm, if “love” means saying only what people WANT to hear, then yes, a Catholic forum might not have much “love” to offer.

If, OTOH, “love” means caring enough to tell people TRUTH, even if they do NOT want to hear it, then this forum would be FULL of love.

Sometimes truth seems to be presented WITHOUT love, but is this the real case? Is it the fault of the presenter, is it the fault of the viewer, is it the fault of both,or is it the fault of neither, that somebody does not “feel” the love?
 
The Church’s stance on abortion is always no, even if the health or well being of the mother is in danger, no matter what her age or the circumstance of conception is. With that said I understand you Jonah, although I do not agree, when my own daughter (now almost 28) was 11 she too, was very innocent, just the thought of such a thing happening to her (the rape) would be almost unbearable. But to turn around and have her get an abortion, would be committing another sin on another innocent child. It’s a vicious cycle.
 
Abortion is ALWAYS murder. It is never the right option no matter what the circumstances of the conception.

Every human being is precious in God’s sight. Every human being has the right to life.

As HORRIBLE as rape is and even more offensive to us when it’s a child that is raped, abortion cannot be seen as a way to “make it better.” The child has been raped, the damage is done. She already will suffer psychological consequences. Then someone decides it’s better to kill the baby and spare her the pain and anquish of pregnancy. How is that good?

It’s all in the approach. If you tell this 11 year old that even though this horrible thing has happend, God’s grace has allowed a beautiful human being to be created. That this little person will fulfill the hopes and dreams of a childless couple. That God has brought something good out of something so evil…that is a beginning to healing.

Abortion puts away from us the things we do not want to see. We do not want to see a raped and pregnant 11 year old. It reminds us of the sickness of humanity. It reminds us that some human beings treat others as less than human. And then we punish the innocent by treating them as less than human.

But as ghastly, horriffic and appalling as rape is, it does not justify murder. The whole situation is terrible and nothing will fix that, except the grace of God.

I too have a daughter, she’s 19 now. But I remember her at 11. Yes, a child! Innocent in every way…but I can not imagine then or now every telling her that killing another person would fix any horrible thing that happened to her.

I understand Jonah’s disgust and horror. But the option of abortion is the world’s answer.
 
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Jonah:
She was 11 years old! Not a woman that could make a decision about having a baby. To let her go through pregnancy and labor is sick…just as sick as having an abortion, just as sick as being raped.
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I’m with Jonah, so is my husband. Although we believe abortion is murder and wrong, we simply could not let our 11 year old daughter go through with a pregnancy.
 
Catholic mommy:
I’m with Jonah, so is my husband. Although we believe abortion is murder and wrong, we simply could not let our 11 year old daughter go through with a pregnancy.
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I have two daughters-we would not have considered for a second abortion if this situation had occured with one of our daughters.

With all due repsect you dont really think that abortion is murder and wrong-you feel OTHER peoples abortions are murder and wrong. I have counseled numerus parents who were confronted with a pregnant daughter-it alway saddened me how quicky they changed thier views on abortion whe their daughter was involved
 
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estesbob:
I have two daughters-we would not have considered for a second abortion if this situation had occured with one of our daughters.

With all due repsect you dont really think that abortion is murder and wrong-you feel OTHER peoples abortions are murder and wrong. I have counseled numerus parents who were confronted with a pregnant daughter-it alway saddened me how quicky they changed thier views on abortion whe their daughter was involved
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Hummm, that is certainly something to think about. However, you are wrong.
 
Catholic mommy:
I’m with Jonah, so is my husband. Although we believe abortion is murder and wrong, we simply could not let our 11 year old daughter go through with a pregnancy.
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But these are your feelings, you have free will, I am not your judge, God is. But the question was, “What is the Church’s stance on this?” It is against the teachings of the Church. Abortion is murder, there is no exceptions here, not even if an 11 year old was raped and became pregnant.
 
Originally Posted by estesbob
I have two daughters-we would not have considered for a second abortion if this situation had occured with one of our daughters.
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With all due repsect you dont really think that abortion is murder and wrong-you feel OTHER peoples abortions are murder and wrong. I have counseled numerus parents who were confronted with a pregnant daughter-it alway saddened me how quicky they changed thier views on abortion whe their daughter was involved
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Hummm, that is certainly something to think about. However, you are wrong.
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Well, do you mean that you think Bob is wrong about your thinking–meaning that you would think your daughters’ abortions at age 11 would be wrong, but you would do it anyway–or do you mean that his original words on abortion being murder and wrong are wrong?
 
Catholic mommy:
Hummm, that is certainly something to think about. However, you are wrong.
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About what?

Of all the women I have counseled I never had one who chose t abort that did nt find a way to rainalize it. Of al the women I counseled who had had an abortion only one expessed that she ws not haunted by it.

The situaion described is a delima-I always describe a delima to those I couneled as where you look at all the options and none are good

Hoewever abortion is a long term solution to a short term problem. the 11 year old could have that child and comlete Gods plan for an infertile couple by l placing her child for adoption. in short a terrible tragedy ca n be turned into a beautiful and joyful thing.
 
Tantum ergo said:
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Well, do you mean that you think Bob is wrong about your thinking–meaning that you would think your daughters’ abortions at age 11 would be wrong, but you would do it anyway–or do you mean that his original words on abortion being murder and wrong are wrong?
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This is where the poster was wrong. When he said, With all due repsect you dont really think that abortion is murder and wrong-you feel OTHER peoples abortions are murder and wrong. He is dead wrong there. I do think abortion is murder, yours or mine. I don’t think it is the right thing to do. I hate that people use it is birth control, because the pregnancy doesn’t fit into their life at that time. However, neither my husband nor I would encourage our daughter at age 11 to carry a baby if she had been raped. I think I would feel differently if she had been having sex with a boy and the pregnancy happened.

Quite frankly, I take issue with that poster telling me and others what *I * think, he does not have any idea who I am or what I think. He twisted my words to fit his thoughts.

I know I am going against the Catholic church with my feelings, luckily this situation in my life in hypothetical…
 
Hmmmm… abortion is murderous, but some would choose to be murderous given certain situations. I pray God will show you how incredibly evil this choice would be.

Rom 3:8 “And why not do evil that good may come? --as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.”

“it is never lawful, even for the gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it” (Paul VI, Humanae Vitae, 14)
 
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Jonah:
She was 11 years old! Not a woman that could make a decision about having a baby. To let her go through pregnancy and labor is sick…just as sick as having an abortion, just as sick as being raped.
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And how does killing a baby somehow make this LESS tragic?
 
Catholic mommy:
This is where the poster was wrong. When he said, With all due repsect you dont really think that abortion is murder and wrong-you feel OTHER peoples abortions are murder and wrong. He is dead wrong there. I do think abortion is murder, yours or mine. I don’t think it is the right thing to do. I hate that people use it is birth control, because the pregnancy doesn’t fit into their life at that time. However, neither my husband nor I would encourage our daughter at age 11 to carry a baby if she had been raped. I think I would feel differently if she had been having sex with a boy and the pregnancy happened.

Quite frankly, I take issue with that poster telling me and others what *I * think, he does not have any idea who I am or what I think. He twisted my words to fit his thoughts.

I know I am going against the Catholic church with my feelings, luckily this situation in my life in hypothetical…
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Peace be with you!

So you know that abortion is murder and that murder is a mortal sin. And yet you think it would be perfectly ok to commit murder as long as it was your daughter that had been raped. You would be ready to stand before God and explain to him why you had your own grand child murdered?
Would it be a terrible thing that an 11 year old was raped? Yes, of course it would! But even though that is horrible, why should the baby have to die for it??? estesbob was exactly right–you have proven it trying to disprove it. You said that you think abortion is murder and that it is wrong. And then you said “but if it was my daughter I would approve of it”. That’s exactly what estesbob pointed out and you said that your words were twisted. HOW???

Mortal sin:
  1. Grave matter (abortion violates one of the ten commandments)
  2. Full knowledge (you said “I think abortion is murder” and “I know I am going against the Catholic Church”)
  3. Full consent of will (you said “Although we believe abortion is murder and wrong, we simply could not let our 11 year old daughter go through with a pregnancy.”)
That falls fairly easily under the category of a mortal sin. You would be willing to place your soul in jeopardy just because your daughter was 11? I will pray for you.

In Christ,
Rand
 
I rarely post outside the watercooler, but had to voice on this one…

If anyone, parent or otherwise, encourages or helps someone obtain an abortion, they’ve helped to end a life. that makes them guilty of murder.
all life is to be preserved and cherished, as a gift from God, from the moment of conception to natural death.
there are no exceptions to this law. it is natural law.

you can think otherwise, do otherwise or speak otherwise, but if you do, you are guilty of a serious mortal sin that puts your eternal soul in peril.

If the parents of an 11 year help or encourage thier daughter to abort, they’ve commited a mortal sin and they’ve killed their grandchild. they are murderers.
 
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