question on abortion

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As I said, I’m glad this is a hypothetical situation in my life. I haven’t helped, assisted or encouraged anyone get an abortion. Therefore, I haven’t committed a mortal sin.

So, enough telling me I’m a murderer and I’m going to hell.
 
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Jonah:
With all this LOVE here, this would be the last place I would come to to get talked OUT of an abortion!
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You have said several troubling things. For example, that the god you worship would never impute the sin of abortion to an 11-year-old. On the other hand, it is the God that I worship who judges just that. Are you turning yourself into the judge when it is God who should judge. Similarly, simply that God MAY not judge her act harshly is not a fact in favor of abortion. It is true that only God knows a person’s heart, but it is equally true that we are supposed to counsel people away from committing objectively evil acts.

Your sarcasm, as well, is noted. But as your words imply, this is not a forum in which we are talking young women OUT of abortion. We are discussing truth. Different situations demand differing approaches. And quite frankly, in this forum, we are discussing Catholic truth. You are on the wrong side of the issue from that perspective. Now, you can disagree with us if you care to. But that does not mean that what you say goes. In the end, we are concerned about God’s rights and the rights of innocent life. Is it merciful to seek the death of an innocent child in order to be merciful to another innocent child? I should say not. Is not not a greater mercy to care for them both?
 
This is a very interesting discussion. I, too, can appreciate the anguish that I would feel if my daughter were in this awful situation (and since she is 7 we are certainly not out of the woods like those of you with adult children).

One thing I have not seen clearly addressed is whose sin this is. Clearly the molester is in the wrong. I’ve seen a lot of posts on the counseling of this girl toward or against this act.

My prayers are first, that we are never in this situation and second, that in this situation we would not make abortion an option. I believe that abortion is always sinful and I do not believe I would allow one done to my daughter.

I picture the OP as parents taking their child to the ER and having it done unbeknownst to the child. Assuming this situation, the sin does not fall on the child but on the parents and doctors.

Also, the sin we are talking about is not only about the murder of the baby, but also of the victimization of this poor girl a second time. It is not enough that she was traumatized through the rape, but she then had her body reviolated to murder this baby. Even though neither violent act was her fault, she will live with all of the consequences for the rest of her life.

What her parents should have considered was the healing benefit to something good coming from this event. It certainly would be a very difficult time, but she would learn that ALL life comes from God. She would be able to see the faces of her baby’s parents as she (with her parents) tell them that they will, finally, be blessed with a baby, and then again on the day the baby is born as she places him/her in their arms.

The abortion now has left this girl not only having witnessed the murder of her baby, but she now has to deal with the fact that she has a much higher chance of breast cancer (revictimized as an adult for the rape). If this abortion has left her infertile, how is that going to make her feel? Does the abortion truly leave her less traumatized?

Since post abortion stress syndrome is a probability not a possiblity, this child will likely suffer from this and very likely will leave her open to becoming extremely depressed with unexplained phobias or panic attacks and a huge list of other symptoms one month to ten years down the road.

The only time an “abortion” is accepted by the Church is when the mother’s life is clearly and undeniably going to end because of the pregnancy before the child can be saved by any means outside of the womb (ie. a tubal pregnancy).
 
Catholic mommy:
As I said, I’m glad this is a hypothetical situation in my life. I haven’t helped, assisted or encouraged anyone get an abortion. Therefore, I haven’t committed a mortal sin.

So, enough telling me I’m a murderer and I’m going to hell.
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Peace be with you!

See, now you’re twisting my words. I was speaking about the hypothetical situation that you mentioned. I said IF a parent encourages abortion, and helps their daughter to have one, they are guilty of mortal sin. I know you haven’t done that. I was basing my assertion (which is straight from God’s Natural Law) on your hypothetical comments. And like I said, the other poster was RIGHT in saying that you are one of the people that doesn’t approve of abortion as long as your daughter doesn’t need one because that’s what YOU SAID. No one here is telling you that you’re going to hell so don’t tell us we are.

What we are getting at is that you claim to be a Catholic (hence your screen name) and say that you think abortion is murder and is wrong. But then you also say that you (and your husband) WOULD allow–and even ENCOURAGE–your 11 year old daughter to get an abortion if she were raped. How do you not see anything wrong with that??? Abortion is murder. Murder is wrong in any situation. How can you possibly reconcile that with encouraging an 11 year old rape victim to get an abortion?

Not to mention the fact that abortion causes emotional scarring. So not only is the girl emotionally scarred from the rape, but she will be emotionally scarred from the abortion as well.

In Christ,
Rand
 
As the product of a rape (very young mom) I am glad I was given the gift of life. I praise God every day. I look around and think of all the wonderful people who would not have had life on this earth if I had been aborted. I think of my life and what I have been able to accomplish and hope this world has been better for my having been born. My bio mother went on to have a husband and family. I was raised in a loving adoptive home. Yes, she suffered, but I do know her and she is proud of herself and me.

NO TO ABORTION!!!

Love and peace,

Mom of 5
 
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otm:
How is giving birth to a child sick? You have a very myopic and narrow view of life in general; in many parts of the world women marry at the age of puberty and give birth not long after the marriage. do you consider that sick also?

She did not choose to have a child, and what was done to her was sick. But your attitutde about someone giving birth at an early age is also elitist.
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Thankfully at this moment this is a hypothetical situation.

FORCING an 11 year old child to have a baby is sick. And it is child abuse.
 
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Bella3502:
Thankfully at this moment this is a hypothetical situation.

FORCING an 11 year old child to have a baby is sick. And it is child abuse.
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teaching your child that you’re willing and with gusto support the death of your own grandchild isn’t exactly too nice either.

In one the result is compassion. in the other its the death of a human being.

now that ain’t a choice. thats a murder.
 
Abotion the Ultimate Child Abuse, and saddest part----It’s legal. How can any of you justify killing a baby for whatever reason? The young girl suffered enough, do you really want to add murder to it?
 
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Bella3502:
Thankfully at this moment this is a hypothetical situation.

FORCING an 11 year old child to have a baby is sick. And it is child abuse.
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Funny, there’s no laws that I know of that say that not having the baby inside an 11 year old murdered is child abuse. More like the rape is the child abuse.
 
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Bella3502:
Thankfully at this moment this is a hypothetical situation.

FORCING an 11 year old child to have a baby is sick. And it is child abuse.
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**Forcing a child to have sex is child abuse, once that child has become pregnant she is already carrying a baby, forcing her to kill her baby is not only child abuse it is forcing a child to kill another child her own at that.:mad: **
 
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kaymart:
Abotion the Ultimate Child Abuse, and saddest part----It’s legal. How can any of you justify killing a baby for whatever reason? The young girl suffered enough, do you really want to add murder to it?
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If someone kills a pregnant woman, you’re charged with two deaths under most laws of the USA.
If the mom kills her baby by abortion, it’s a fetal termination.

And the difference would be what? am i just thick?

i just don’t understand how abortion is legal in this country. abortion supporters preach choice, unless your choice is pro-life. then you’re evil to them.
hypocrisy and evil are alive and well in the courts.
 
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thechrismyster:
If someone kills a pregnant woman, you’re charged with two deaths under most laws of the USA.
If the mom kills her baby by abortion, it’s a fetal termination.

And the difference would be what? am i just thick?

i just don’t understand how abortion is legal in this country. abortion supporters preach choice, unless your choice is pro-life. then you’re evil to them.
hypocrisy and evil are alive and well in the courts.
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it’s sad isn’t it when you think about it. All babies should have they right to be born. Murder is Murder no matter what term they wish to use. You are not thick, you are standing your ground, these people who proclaim they as Catholic and would support bans on abortion EXCEPT if it’s their own kid. They are what I call “sometimey Catholics” these are the people who believe in the Church’s teachings except when it might not fall in to what they want and make statements like “but I couldn’t let my daughter go through this, it wasn’t her fault” or “I already have 4 kids, I did my part, having a 5th one would be to much, I just get my tubes tied” or “I’m really don’t want to go to Mass, it’s such a hassle, I just go next week”
 
thechrismyster said:
If someone kills a pregnant woman, you’re charged with two deaths under most laws of the USA.
If the mom kills her baby by abortion, it’s a fetal termination.
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And the difference would be what? am i just thick?
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I heard a speaker about this once. The difference is that it is about the woman’s right to have/not have a child VS the child’s right to life.
If someone kills a pregnant woman, the assumption is that she wanted the baby, and you interfered with her right to choose. If she kills her own baby, she is excercising her right to choose.

Sounds like pretty twisted logic to me.

Arlene
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Here’s another kicker…your 11yr. in most states, does not even have to tell her parents she is going to have an abortion. She can just get one. But the same 11yr. needs a permission form to go on a field trip at school, receive an aspirin or antacid, even be dismissed from school to a person who is not their parent etc…but get an abortion…Go right ahead, little girl.
 
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stbruno:
Here’s another kicker…your 11yr. in most states, does not even have to tell her parents she is going to have an abortion. She can just get one. But the same 11yr. needs a permission form to go on a field trip at school, receive an aspirin or antacid, even be dismissed from school to a person who is not their parent etc…but get an abortion…Go right ahead, little girl.
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Very sick, unjust world we live in. :mad:
 
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stbruno:
Here’s another kicker…your 11yr. in most states, does not even have to tell her parents she is going to have an abortion. She can just get one. But the same 11yr. needs a permission form to go on a field trip at school, receive an aspirin or antacid, even be dismissed from school to a person who is not their parent etc…but get an abortion…Go right ahead, little girl.
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Want even a bigger kicker? A girl about to turn 18, but not quite, cuts her finger at work, needs stiches, can not do anything until a parent signs the consent. This happen to my daughter 3 weeks shy of her 18th birthday, yet if she wanted an abortion at 11 or 12(not that she ever would) no problem. System is :whacky:
 
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Bella3502:
Thankfully at this moment this is a hypothetical situation.

FORCING an 11 year old child to have a baby is sick. And it is child abuse.
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And encouraging a child to kill someone is somehow not?

If I convinced an 11 year old to shoot someone because it would make their life easier, would that somehow be a moral thing to do?

If the police found out about my encouragment, would they be pleased?
 
The Creation of a new life is never act of chance or mishap.

God creates a new person and gives that new life to a mother.

Unlike Evil, which God merely permits, the creation of new life requires a postive act of God’s Will. He Chooses to do so.

So the hypothetical 11 year old here was chosen, by a direct act of Will by God, to recieve a child.

So two things are possible here.
  1. God intents this new child to be aborted, which is not possible, since abortion is intrinsically evil, and that would mean that God intents evil to occur.
  2. God intends this new child to be born and raised.
For all those arguing FOR an abortion in this case, I would ask you to ponder.

If the child was allowed to be born, 1 year later, would any of you still desire the death of this child?

More likely, and as with any other 1 year old toddling over to you with a book or toy in their hand and a huge grin on their face, you would wonder how your life would have been complete without it.

And that would be the very gift God is presenting.

The chance to heal from a very tramatic event through the ultimate gift of Love.
 
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trav6574:
An 11 year old girl was molested and was impregnated, an abortion was just performed this morning. What is the Churchs’ stance on this?
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Simple. It’s wrong. Evil cannot counteract evil (i.e. the abortion cannot take away the pain of the abuse, it can only add to it).
It’s like saying “I was beaten by my parents, now I’ll beat my children/wife/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend”. How can two wrongs make a right?
 
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