Question on Eastern Catholic Theology

[BVMFatima]

Hello!

I’m new to the forums, my question is what is the difference between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Catholic theology on Purgatory? Thanks and God Bless!

 

[Peter_J]

Hello!

I’m new to the forums, my question is what is the difference between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Catholic theology on Purgatory? Thanks and God Bless!

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Not meaning to be a back-seat poster, but I would suggest putting the word Purgatory in the thread title.

 

[LAMF]

I would also be interested in their take on original sin, the Filioque, Hesychasm, and other areas that contrast with the Latin Church.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I think they’re opinions on it are fairly similar to that of Roman Catholics. Their major detraction point is the Papacy.

That’s just my understanding of it,and I am by no means an expert.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I think they’re opinions on it are fairly similar to that of Roman Catholics. Their major detraction point is the Papacy.

The OP asks about the Eastern Catholic perspective, not the Eastern Orthodox. We Eastern Catholics are bound in Communion with His Holiness.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

I would also be interested in their take on original sin, the Filioque, Hesychasm, and other areas that contrast with the Latin Church.

I’ll let Eastern Catholics speak for themselves, but my impression is that they share the theology of their particular tradition. So, for instance, Byzantine Catholic Churches take the same positions on things that the Eastern Orthodox Church does.

Regarding hesychasm, for example, Byzantine Catholic Churches celebrate Saint Gregory Palamas on the second Sunday of the Great Fast, just like the Eastern Orthodox do.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I would also be interested in their take on original sin, the Filioque, Hesychasm, and other areas that contrast with the Latin Church.

Well let’s take Purgatory first.

I will note that you could likely find dozens, if not hundreds, of threads here on any one of the subjects you mentioned thus far.

Most simply put, Eastern Christians (Catholic and Orthodox) focus on Theosis, a process which begins with our baptism and continues even after physical death, in which we strive to become more like God, as we were originally created. Easterners do believe that purification continues after physical death, yet we tend not to focus on Purgatory as a place, but rather a continuation of this process. Theosis is also somewhat more forward focused, if you will, as it tends to emphasize what remains to be done to become more God-like as opposed to a need for additional atonement for past offenses. We continue to seek the graces necessary to realize the fullness of our original nature, created in the image and likeness of God.

Detailed comparison of Theosis vs. Divinization, as described in Western theology, will demonstrate other subtle differences, but the similarities, and of course the utlimate goal, outweigh them substantially.

This is a theme in comparing Western theology to Eastern theology, especially through the Eastern Catholic lens. It is a matter of perspective more so than substantive difference of theological opinion.

 

[Peter_J]

I think they’re opinions on it are fairly similar to that of Roman Catholics. Their major detraction point is the Papacy.

That’s just my understanding of it,and I am by no means an expert.

Well, I’m not sure what you mean by “detraction point”. In any case, if you don’t know something I think it’s better to ask rather than guessing.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Well let’s take Purgatory first.

I will note that you could likely find dozens, if not hundreds, of threads here on any one of the subjects you mentioned thus far.

Most simply put, Eastern Christians (Catholic and Orthodox) focus on Theosis, a process which begins with our baptism and continues even after physical death, in which we strive to become more like God, as we were originally created. Easterners do believe that purification continues after physical death, yet we tend not to focus on Purgatory as a place, but rather a continuation of this process. Theosis is also somewhat more forward focused, if you will, as it tends to emphasize what remains to be done to become more God-like as opposed to a need for additional atonement for past offenses. We continue to seek the graces necessary to realize the fullness of our original nature, created in the image and likeness of God…

Thanks for this, I think it’s an excellent concise look at the differences. Someplace in Saint Mary Magdalene Di Pazzi’s writings, (16th century Carmelite mystic) you’ll find her revelations about what we call Purgatory to be quite similar to what you are describing. I wish I had the exact reference, maybe someone else does…

 

[ProdglArchitect]

The OP asks about the Eastern Catholic perspective, not the Eastern Orthodox. We Eastern Catholics are bound in Communion with His Holiness.

Ah, my mistake. Sorry.

Well, I’m not sure what you mean by “detraction point”. In any case, if you don’t know something I think it’s better to ask rather than guessing.

A detraction point is a point on which two parties differ in opinion.

the only reason i said anything was because I had just been having a debate with my friend, who is seriously considering becoming Eastern Orthodox, and he said that in his research this was the defining feature that separated the two.

 

[Peter_J]

A detraction point is a point on which two parties differ in opinion.

Alright. Thanks.

the only reason i said anything was because I had just been having a debate with my friend, who is seriously considering becoming Eastern Orthodox, and he said that in his research this was the defining feature that separated the two.

By “the two” do you mean Catholics and Orthodox?

 

[Elizium23]

A detraction point is a point on which two parties differ in opinion.

That is an all-new definition for those two words which I was unable to find together in a Google search, and somewhat departs from the dictionary definition of “detraction”, but OK.

 

[mardukm]

Hello!

I’m new to the forums, my question is what is the difference between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Catholic theology on Purgatory? Thanks and God Bless!

Non-Latin Catholics are only bound by the dogma, which is:
(1) That there is a third state after death;
(2) That in this third state, the soul experiences a certain suffering for the sake of purification/perfection;
(3) That the suffrages of the Church, especially the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, aid these souls in that third state for the sake of their purification/perfection.

That’s it.

We are not bound by any of the peculiarly Latin expressions of that dogma (purgatorial fire, accounting of certain acts for indulgences, etc.).

Merits and indulgences are dogma, AFAIK, but Easterns and Orientals are not bound by those particular expressions. We know that the prayers and suffrages of the Church aid those in this third state, but we would not ordinarily refer to these in terms of “merits,” nor their effects as “indulgences.” (though I admit that the concept of indulgences is fully patristic, even from a non-Latin perspective). But we accept the underlying dogmatic principle behind them - namely the third of the dogmatic principles on Purgatory mentioned above.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Vico]

Hello!

I’m new to the forums, my question is what is the difference between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Catholic theology on Purgatory? Thanks and God Bless!

The Orthodox idea is that there is an after death state of being in which the just souls exist, and we can intercede for them, and that the saints may intercede for us. It is less defined than the Latin, for which, see below:

From His Holiness Blessed John Paul II, GENERAL AUDIENCE, Wednesday 4 August 1999:Every trace of attachment to evil must be eliminated, every imperfection of the soul corrected. Purification must be complete, and indeed this is precisely what is meant by the Church’s teaching on *purgatory. *The term does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence. Those who, after death, exist in a state of purification, are already in the love of Christ who removes from them the remnants of imperfection (cf. Ecumenical Council of Florence, *Decretum pro Graecis: *DS 1304; Ecumenical Council of Trent, Decretum de iustificatione: DS 1580; *Decretum de purgatorio: *DS 1820).
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_04081999_en.html

 

[ConstantineTG]

The OP asks about the Eastern Catholic perspective, not the Eastern Orthodox. We Eastern Catholics are bound in Communion with His Holiness.

If there is a differentiation between Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, then we should stop pretending we are “Orthodox in communion with Rome” and we should stop telling Roman Catholics who are interested in Orthodoxy to “try Eastern Catholic parishes because they are the same thing.”

 

[Julia_Mae]

That is an all-new definition for those two words which I was unable to find together in a Google search, and somewhat departs from the dictionary definition of “detraction”, but OK.

Maybe he meant “point of departure” - heaven knows we’ve had enough detraction!

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother ConstantineTG,

If there is a differentiation between Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, then we should stop pretending we are “Orthodox in communion with Rome” and we should stop telling Roman Catholics who are interested in Orthodoxy to “try Eastern Catholic parishes because they are the same thing.”

Perhaps all that Brother ByzCathcantor is saying is that Eastern Catholics have been able to detect the underlying Faith that unites Eastern and Latin Catholics, while the Eastern Orthodox have not done so. He is not denying the identity between the Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Faith in terms of theology and praxis and spirituality is concerned, but simply affirming that the difference is that the Eastern Catholics have been able to understand Latin Catholics better (and thus be united to them) than the Eastern Orthodox.

A misunderstanding of the Latin Catholic Tradition is not of the esse of the Eastern Tradition. It certainly appears from all the discussions in the past few months that you have yourself displayed a lot of misunderstanding of the Latin Catholic Tradition, after all. If such misunderstanding is what actually separates the Latin Catholics from Eastern Orthodox, then you cannot say that Eastern Catholics cannot call themselves “Orthodox in communion with Rome,” since the essence of the difference between Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox would not then be a divergence in their respective Eastern Traditions, but simply a divergence in their understanding of - and concurrent communion with (or lack thereof) - the Latin Tradition.

Something I hope you will thoughtfully consider.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[lssanjose]

Dear brother ConstantineTG,

Perhaps all that Brother ByzCathcantor is saying is that Eastern Catholics have been able to detect the underlying Faith that unites Eastern and Latin Catholics, while the Eastern Orthodox have not done so. He is not denying the identity between the Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Faith in terms of theology and praxis and spirituality is concerned, but simply affirming that the difference is that the Eastern Catholics have been able to understand Latin Catholics better (and thus be united to them) than the Eastern Orthodox.

A misunderstanding of the Latin Catholic Tradition is not of the esse of the Eastern Tradition. It certainly appears from all the discussions in the past few months that you have yourself displayed a lot of misunderstanding of the Latin Catholic Tradition, after all. If such misunderstanding is what actually separates the Latin Catholics from Eastern Orthodox, then you cannot say that Eastern Catholics cannot call themselves “Orthodox in communion with Rome,” since the essence of the difference between Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox would not then be a divergence in their respective Eastern Traditions, but simply a divergence in their understanding of - and concurrent communion with (or lack thereof) - the Latin Tradition.

Something I hope you will thoughtfully consider.

Blessings,
Marduk

Brother Marduk,

Christ is in our midst!

What a wonderful summation of points regarding the Eastern Catholic union with Rome. I’ve been following your posts, throughout this section; and enjoy reading your discussions, with other posters.

God Bless, and Glory to Jesus Christ!

Lester

 

[ByzCathCantor]

If there is a differentiation between Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, then we should stop pretending we are “Orthodox in communion with Rome” and we should stop telling Roman Catholics who are interested in Orthodoxy to “try Eastern Catholic parishes because they are the same thing.”

That was not the point of the response. Rather, it was in reaction to the cited statement in the referenced post:

Their major detraction point is the Papacy.

I have no idea why you are putting words in my mouth.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Perhaps all that Brother ByzCathcantor is saying is that Eastern Catholics have been able to detect the underlying Faith that unites Eastern and Latin Catholics, while the Eastern Orthodox have not done so. He is not denying the identity between the Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Faith in terms of theology and praxis and spirituality is concerned, but simply affirming that the difference is that the Eastern Catholics have been able to understand Latin Catholics better (and thus be united to them) than the Eastern Orthodox.

I wish I could take credit for this eloquent exposition and underlying thought, but as I noted above, that particular post was simply aimed to clarify that the OP was addressing ECs and not EOs, thus the Papacy is not an obstacle (or perhaps not nearly as much of one as it is with the Orthodox, depending of course on who you talk to …).

Thanks for your post, in its entirety - we always enjoy your clarity of thought!