Question on Homosexuality

[paulah]

There is another active thread on this very subject of nature vs nurture

awe… sorry! I -honestly- didnt see it.

Setter, Im not sure what this means. Not sure if I should thank you or be angry

Funny that you feel the need to add this qualifier, when in fact, the Catholic (and broader Christian) community is the one most able to offer the same sex attraction afflicted individual (who may or may not be engaged in the gay lifestyle) true compassion to know and live in the true dignity of their person.

Thanks y’all for all these great responses.

 

[Rolltide]

One thing to think is on this
If being gay is genetic, how has it survived?
Homosexuals cannot reproduce unless they avoid what they naturally feel.

Therefore, in my opinion, it is not genetic, but more environmentally based.

I rarely jump in on these types of discussions, but this is a flawed argument because that’s not how genetics works. The same genetic mutation can continue to occur over and over. Case in point is albinism. Among animals, albinos rarely survive because they are easy targets for predators due to their lack of camoflage. So, if it’s genetic, how come there are still albinos? It’s because it’s a result of a genetic mutation. Any number of factors can genetically combine to cause animals or humans to fail to produce melanin and create an albino. It remains unusual and rare, but it will continue to reoccur over and over in the population. Even if the entire population of albinos died off, eventually, more would re-emerge. That being said, I don’t think there’s enough evidence to rule out anything at this point, whether that be genetic, environmental, or sociological.

 

[LeahInancsi]

Karin,

in my OP, I clearly stated that my twin friends admittied that this lifestyle was a product of their fatherless home. But my hairdresser argued that its genetics - not chosen.

Everyone’s situation is different.
Everyone’s homelife is different.

Sounds like you did an awesome job in a single parent home!

Paulah,

When I was younger, I blamed my insecurity and depression on the fact that my parents separated when I was five years old and my father wasn’t very interested in spending time with me after he left my mother and I. I’m now 50. A couple years ago, I came to realize that my home situation as a child was not the cause for my depression. My home life as a child didn’t help any, but I simply have a chemical imbalance that causes depression.

What I’m trying to say is that when a person is young, they tend to look for something to blame their problems on. In my opinion, I think this is the case with your twin friends. Perhaps, when they are older and know themselves better and the world around them, they will come to realize this. I firmly believe that most homosexuals are born homosexual. The only exception is boys who are molested by men and turn out to be gay. I’m not sure if that’s a cause or not.

BTW, identical twins should both be gay or both heterosexual. It would be abnormal for one to be homosexual and the other to be heterosexual.

 

[phantom]

I think it could be both…physical and learned. The guys I knew who grew up to be gay seemed timid as children. Why were they timid? In most cases they were frail or small, loved music or drama, weren’t good in sports or in some way didn’t “fit”. I think this pushed them away from the “norm” growing up. So being outside or feeling like they didn’t belong to normal groups they looked elsewhere and got into a gay lifestyle. But, it was their choice. Homosexuality is a sin and any person who has a belief that it is a sin is also capable of avoiding that sin. The greater the physical sex drive then the greater the homosexual attraction, the more difficult to avoid the temptation, the greater the challenge to avoid the sin and the greater the reward for remaining true to your beliefs and avoiding the temptation. The more we are able to avoid sin and deny temptation, the stronger we get. But we have to have the belief to let us know what we must avoid. It sounds like these two boys, mostly just lacked the guidance to give them the necessary beliefs and the tools to avoid the temptation to sin. That guidence could have come from alot of different sources, for whatever reason they chose the gay lifesyle. It was their decision. This is just my opinion and based on the people I have known and the twins sound alot like the people I knew in my childhood or youth who later turned out to be gay.

 

[setter]

Setter, Im not sure what this means. Not sure if I should thank you or be angry

Probably neither. I was simply pointing out that Church teaching makes great effort to emphasize compassionate outreach and truth of understanding to offer the SSA afflicted individual healing and hope. Here is an example of this:
cathmed.org/publications/homosexuality.htm

Unfortunately misunderstanding, misperception and failings have obscured this for some or the many.

 

[KellyEr]

I would like to put forth this: If homosexuality is genetic, then God has created something that is morally disordered. That can’t be.
Being born with a physical genetic defect, such as Downs Syndrome, is part of the natural world God created. But He wouldn’t call something evil (homosexuality) and then make us that way. Genetic mutations cause physical abnormalities, not psychological. Homosexuality is a psychological disorder.

The bottom line is not whether someone is ‘born that way’ or not. The thing to remember is that it is like any other inclination, we can choose to act on our disordered inclinations or through grace, turn away from sin.

 

[LeahInancsi]

The bottom line is not whether someone is ‘born that way’ or not. The thing to remember is that it is like any other inclination, we can choose to act on our disordered inclinations or through grace, turn away from sin.

I agree.

Regardless of the cause, it is a cross to bear.

 

[hopeintheend]

I don’t know. Parents do all they can to bring their children up in a good church, home and school. Why does God allow a child to go astray. If he is the father to us all wouldn’t all Fathers want their children to be happy, but happy in the way it is meant for us.??? Then again what way is that.

I don’t know the answer to the question you ask. Honestly I don’t think there is one. We are all given one chance to life this life, to prove that we love one God and one only. To life faithful and proper. Raise a family and love God. It is only in this where I find something that would suggest that Homosexuality is wrong. How can Adam and Eve have children if one like only the same sex? I fear this and the day when I am called home to God and stand before Jesus Christ with my hand open and hart his only hoping that the good in my life will somehow out weight the bad that I have done and the tests that I have failed…

I pray that God will remember me and forgive us all when we are called home to meet him.

 

[LBJ]

Unless someone is Gay or lesbian they should not judge or critize them. If you don’t plan to spend the rest of your life single and alone, without acceptance from the Christian Church, then don’t express your lack of LOVE! Luke 10:27. The loving thing to do is to let them decide for themselves what path they need to take in their Christian walk. The issue is between their creator themselves. If you’re not gay it’s none of your business. It’s no secret that catholics are homophobic! My self included, it was tuaght to me by the church, and I’ve worked hard to overcome that Bigotry. Jesus had a “special relationship” with the one whom he Loved, (John) who lay at his breast. And also, was the only male at the cross with the women; Figure it out, Jesus didn’t try to make him straight. To fast foward into the 21st century, it’s been several years now since science has discovered the unchallengeible fact that SSA is found in identical twins, which makes it genetically related! Another outdated superstion has been has been thrown into the dustbin of history. Lets see, before that one, there was the one about left-handedness being an evil inclination. Early 1960’s ish.:nun2:

 

[Exalt]

Personally, I chose to have half of my religious friends never talk to me, my family to tell me they were cutting me off, and my mother telling me that “I’m not the son she raised.”

Yeah. Homosexuality is definately chosen.

 

[goofyjim]

A homosexual orientation is inborn. There is more to play than just genes. They’re called chromosomes. The behavior is environmental.

 

[estesbob]

Unless someone is Gay or lesbian they should not judge or critize them. If you don’t plan to spend the rest of your life single and alone, without acceptance from the Christian Church, then don’t express your lack of LOVE! Luke 10:27. The loving thing to do is to let them decide for themselves what path they need to take in their Christian walk. The issue is between their creator themselves. If you’re not gay it’s none of your business. It’s no secret that catholics are homophobic! My self included, it was tuaght to me by the church, and I’ve worked hard to overcome that Bigotry. Jesus had a “special relationship” with the one whom he Loved, (John) who lay at his breast. And also, was the only male at the cross with the women; Figure it out, Jesus didn’t try to make him straight. To fast foward into the 21st century, it’s been several years now since science has discovered the unchallengeible fact that SSA is found in identical twins, which makes it genetically related! Another outdated superstion has been has been thrown into the dustbin of history. Lets see, before that one, there was the one about left-handedness being an evil inclination. Early 1960’s ish.:nun2:

One of the symptoms of the disorder of SSA is an inability to understand a close relationship between two men that is not sexual. Thus if John and Jesus are close thenymust be homosexuals becuase a Homosexual can not comprehend a love between two men that is not expressed sexually. Fortunately those of us not thus afflicted not only understand how two men can love each other deeply and not want to have sex-in fact many of us have such friends.

We see this quite a bit from those who who are afflicterd with SSA. Jonathan must be Davids lover, they tell us, becuase they saw each other naked, Lincoln was homosexual becuase he shared a room and a bed with another man, For one who is not afflicted with SSA there is nothing sexual whatsoever about seeing another man naked or two men sharing a bed in 19th century america to save money.

You other points about having to be engageing in homosexual behavior to be able to judge its morality is convolutesd thinking at best and would, iof oput effect, negate very law on the books.
BTW-as long as you are working hard to overcome bogotry i suggest you want to start with your Bigotry against Catholics and anyone else who disaproves of your lifestyle.

 

[blessedtoo]

We see this quite a bit from those who who are afflicterd with SSA. Jonathan must be Davids lover, they tell us, becuase they saw each other naked, Lincoln was homosexual becuase he shared a room and a bed with another man, For one who is not afflicted with SSA there is nothing sexual whatsoever about seeing another man naked or two men sharing a bed in 19th century america to save money.

Oh, and let us not forget the constant accusation that St. Paul was either a homophobe or a “closet case” because he wrote specifically about homosexuality!

 

[fix]

Unless someone is Gay or lesbian they should not judge or critize them.

So, if someone is “gay” they have authority to judge “gay” acts as wrong?

If you don’t plan to spend the rest of your life single and alone, without acceptance from the Christian Church, then don’t express your lack of LOVE! Luke 10:27. The loving thing to do is to let them decide for themselves what path they need to take in their Christian walk.

How is it loving to confirm another in sinful behavior?

The issue is between their creator themselves. If you’re not gay it’s none of your business.

Which other sinful things does this apply to? I mean if one tells me they want to rob a bank am I to claim that is between God and them only?

It’s no secret that catholics are homophobic! My self included, it was tuaght to me by the church, and I’ve worked hard to overcome that Bigotry.

What is homophobia?

Jesus had a “special relationship” with the one whom he Loved, (John) who lay at his breast. And also, was the only male at the cross with the women; Figure it out, Jesus didn’t try to make him straight.

Your proof of this is what?

To fast foward into the 21st century, it’s been several years now since science has discovered the unchallengeible fact that SSA is found in identical twins, which makes it genetically related! Another outdated superstion has been has been thrown into the dustbin of history. Lets see, before that one, there was the one about left-handedness being an evil inclination. Early 1960’s ish.:nun2:

If dementia is genetically related do we claim that is healthy? How do you define natural, health, and disease?

 

[buffalo]

So, if someone is “gay” they have authority to judge “gay” acts as wrong?

How is it loving to confirm another in sinful behavior?

Which other sinful things does this apply to? I mean if one tells me they want to rob a bank am I to claim that is between God and them only?

What is homophobia?

Your proof of this is what?

If dementia is genetically related do we claim that is healthy? How do you define natural, health, and disease?

Intersting program on PBS about epigenetics. DNA is like the hardware in your computer, epigenetics is the software that controls it. Gues what influences epigenetics? Lifestyle, environment, food etc…

Another surprise - you can pass these genetic changes to your kids.

Epigenetics

This confirms pretty much what is known - environmental factors play big in SSA and homosexuality.

Soy, estogens in plastic, pesticides, toxics, hormones in the food supply etc…

Another surprise - since we can change our genetics we can also correct it.

 

[fix]

Intersting program on PBS about epigenetics. DNA is like the hardware in your computer, epigenetics is the software that controls it. Gues what influences epigenetics? Lifestyle, environment, food etc…

Another surprise - you can pass these genetic changes to your kids.

Epigenetics

This confirms pretty much what is known - environmental factors play big in SSA and homosexuality.

Soy, estogens in plastic, pesticides, toxics, hormones in the food supply etc…

Another surprise - since we can change our genetics we can also correct it.

That is interesting. Even with that people still need to understand what is pathologic and what is not. If health is defined as simply whatever occurs in nature then pretty much anything can be defined as health.

 

[goofyjim]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. We can’t rule out the possibility of a biological cause of homosexual attraction. I experienced it long before there were any gay influences in my life. The environmental influences come into play when one decides to engage in the behavior. There is no pathological disturbance in homosexual orientation. It just is a natural for some.

 

[fix]

goofyjim:

There is no pathological disturbance in homosexual orientation. It just is a natural for some.

This is what I am arguing against. That it occurs in nature does not mean it is consistent with health.

What if it occurs sometimes in some people a desire to consume non eatable obejcts. Now, these folks can learn to only eat food, not non eatable objects. Does it follow this desire is healthy?

What criteria are you using to determine that any particular desire one may be born with is consistent with health?

 

[Nepenthe]

fix, I’ll go out on a wild hair here, and guess that you aren’t a bioscientist by trade. And ‘health’ is in fact a human judgment, and very arbitrary. What happens does, in fact happen, whether or not you, I or the ghost of Elvis thinks it should.

Cripes.

But ‘epigenetics’ aren’t news to anyone who has studied the field in any depth, not for a good long while now.

 

[goofyjim]

This is what I am arguing against. That it occurs in nature does not mean it is consistent with health.

What if it occurs sometimes in some people a desire to consume non eatable obejcts. Now, these folks can learn to only eat food, not non eatable objects. Does it follow this desire is healthy?

What criteria are you using to determine that any particular desire one may be born with is consistent with health?

You missed the rest of my post. I have not actedon my attraction but refuse to say it is environmental when I experienced it as far back as I can remember. There is nothing, absolutely nothing unhealthy about an attraction either way. It is the irrational fear of others who experience those attractions that I see as unhealthy.