Question on Islam -- round 5

[seraphime2008]

Thanks Elwill,

see also how Moses reacted first when he heard the voice of God ,he didn’t look up in the sky

Exodus 3:5-6

I don’t see the problems of reverence by not uplifting ur head. Indeed we
have certain posture to express that. But different peole would have different approach towards the expressions of posture for respect. Jesus himself has given us example of praying with His head headed to the sky…The problems of the hadits mentioned above was that it has to have an element of terror instead of directing the right attitude from within ur heart. I can only see that this is a rather lazy, simplistic, effortless method…

5Then He said, “Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.”
6He said also, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob " **Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God. **

here is a question for seraphime2008

what is wrong with wearing sandals in a holy place? why does it matter ]

To level ur inclination to being not serious, I’d rather see the verses u quoted like this:
God didn’t say I will snatch ur eyes by looking at me!!Where can u find any verses saying that? He only says that Moses should respect Him because indeed He is holy. And I don’t think Moses would deliberately take a position of equal to God anyway…

As for removing sandals…well, I do believe that if the intention was to respect God, it;s a good deed indeed, but I prefer to wear my nice polished shoes instead to meet God because that’s the way I respect Him in church. If other people of different culture insist me of leaving my sandals upon entering their own holy place, I don’t see that will be a matter…why…Can’t God see the intention in my heart?

 

[elwill]

I don’t see the problems of reverence by not uplifting ur head. Indeed we
have certain posture to express that. But different peole would have different approach towards the expressions of posture for respect. Jesus himself has given us example of praying with His head headed to the sky….The problems of the hadits mentioned above was that it has to have an element of terror instead of directing the right attitude from within ur heart. I can only see that this is a rather lazy, simplistic, effortless method.

there is no problem with praying to God while our head is headed to sky .
actually i’m not talking about simple praying , i’m talking about salat

salat of muslims is different than the simple pray
when we pray to God and ask him the forgiveness and paradise and mercy so there is no problem to head to sky where God exist

in salat it’s very different , because in salat we are the ones who listens to God not the ones who speaks to God
as for we believe that the quran we listnning to is literally the words of God , so that we have to listen to him and recieve his commands while our eyes in the ground .

but there is no problem , if we pray to God out of salat asking him whatever we want while our heads forwarded to sky

i hope the figure is more clear now

 

[wwolverine]

Just Curious to know. :

Since its a known fact that Mohammed was illiterate, I wonder how he memorised the whole quran and than dictated it as it was. Which even the most educated people fail to do.

The Quran was at least dictated by Muhammad and he got it written down word for word. Did you want that God should send down a written book to mankind?? You can see your own fallacy.

Entire quran recited in five prayers? You must be joking as me being with muslims have seen them pray, and they hardly pray for more than ten minutes, so how come the whole quran is recited unless its only 10 x 5 times ie 50 minutes long quran, and I see that the whole quran cannot be done so in such a less time. During Ramadan muslims do read the quran but each chapter a day and that takes 30 days and each day its more than one hour . So again Planten must be joking.

The Quran was well looked after. It was memorised and recited in the five daily prayers. There were thousands of those persons who had memorised the Quran from A to Z.

 

[elwill]

Just Curious to know. :

Since its a known fact that Mohammed was illiterate, I wonder how he memorised the whole quran and than dictated it as it was. Which even the most educated people fail to do.

quran revealed to the prophet through 23 years

Entire quran recited in five prayers? You must be joking as me being with muslims have seen them pray, and they hardly pray for more than ten minutes, so how come the whole quran is recited unless its only 10 x 5 times ie 50 minutes long quran, and I see that the whole quran cannot be done so in such a less time. During Ramadan muslims do read the quran but each chapter a day and that takes 30 days and each day its more than one hour . So again Planten must be joking.

The Quran was well looked after. It was memorised and recited in the five daily prayers. There were thousands of those persons who had memorised the Quran from A to Z.
it’s good that you quoted his words
as for he didn’t say that entire quran recited every day during 5 prayers
all what he said that the verses of quran in general recited by muslims 5 times a day since 1400 years untill these days

 

[jakasaki]

QUOTE=Hadi;5625369]because most people here think Muslims think alike…just because I put “Islam” as my religion does not mean that I look like any typical Muslim in the world…

Hi Hadi ~ thanks for your reply.

I know not all muslims “think alike”. For example, plantens posts and explanations are not the same as yours. Famdigy (which I haven’t seen in a while) also has different views.

And as far as “does not mean that I look like any typical muslim in the world” statement, I don’t get that…

What does a “typical muslim” look like?

I’m from the middle east…

OK…

and I’m here to learn about Christians and how different they are in dealing with issues in religion and life in general…

OK, it makes sense… Just out of curiosity, what have you learned all this time you’ve been on here?

but most importantly, I educate myself about my own religion …,

If what sense have the threads and postings educated you about islam. Can you give some details?

sometimes after reading some topics here…my love for Islam becomes stronger ,

Great, what topics have made you stronger? What have we covered that you were pleased with?

and sometimes, I have to stop for a moment , and think to myself, maybe I’m in the wrong religion and should hurry up and join the right one…seriously , that what I think

This is very interesting! Again, out of curiosity, what topics and discussions have made you feel this way? In one breath you state that we’ve helped increase your love for islam, and on the other breath you state that sometimes we open your eyes to something.

Can you elaborate?

I also joined other forums to learn about other religions ,

OK ~ so besides Catholicism, what other religious forums have you browsed?

I have been attracted in particular to Judaism in a way that I appreciate it every time I learn something new about it …

What has attracted you to Judaism?

but to be honest,this forum is very addictive compared to others.

Indeed…

I too like CAF ~ it’s one of the best. I’ve browsed so many other types of religious forums.

Islam
All sorts of Christianity
Judaism

And I’ll tell you, some of them are pretty nasty. They are not well maintained for “charity” type postings.

So as of now, I stay on CAF, but still “lurk” around to see what the “chat” is about elsewhere…

Once again, thanks for your reply ~ TGIF!!

 

[jakasaki]

To our muslim members ~ do you guys do this?

Volume 9, Book 93, Number 490: - Sahih Bukhari

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, **“When anyone of you goes to bed, he should dust it off thrice with the edge of his garment, and say: Bismika Rabbi wada’tu janbi, wa bika arfa’hu. In amsakta nafsi faghfir laha, wa in arsaltaha fahfazha bima tahfaz bihi 'ibadaka-s-salihin.” **

And can you translate for me what mohamad would say… Thanks!

 

[Hadi]

To our muslim members ~ do you guys do this?

Volume 9, Book 93, Number 490: - Sahih Bukhari

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, **“When anyone of you goes to bed, he should dust it off thrice with the edge of his garment, and say: Bismika Rabbi wada’tu janbi, wa bika arfa’hu. In amsakta nafsi faghfir laha, wa in arsaltaha fahfazha bima tahfaz bihi 'ibadaka-s-salihin.” **

And can you translate for me what mohamad would say… Thanks!

This is called Sunnah , meaning the way of the prophet,but it’s not compulsory.

it’s translated as follows
" in your name my Lord I put my side and by you I shall revive .
If you keep my soul, forgive her. and if you send her, watch over her by what you watch over your sincere servants"

 

[jakasaki]

This is called Sunnah , meaning the way of the prophet,but it’s not compulsory.

it’s translated as follows
" in your name my Lord I put my side and by you I shall revive .
If you keep my soul, forgive her. and if you send her, watch over her by what you watch over your sincere servants"

Thanks Hadi ~

Ok on this one…
in your name my Lord I put my side and by you I shall revive .

I’m puzzled by this one ~

It sounds like mohamad is saying that “if allah takes his soul while he’s sleeping” which I understand … but… who is he talking about “forgive her”? Forgive whom and for what?
If you keep my soul, forgive her. and if you send her, watch over her by what you watch over your sincere servants

 

[elwill]

To our muslim members ~ do you guys do this?

Volume 9, Book 93, Number 490: - Sahih Bukhari

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, **“When anyone of you goes to bed, he should dust it off thrice with the edge of his garment, and say: Bismika Rabbi wada’tu janbi, wa bika arfa’hu. In amsakta nafsi faghfir laha, wa in arsaltaha fahfazha bima tahfaz bihi 'ibadaka-s-salihin.” **

And can you translate for me what mohamad would say… Thanks!

by your name my lord i put my side (in sleeping) ; and by your name i lift it up . if you hold my spirit (i.e death ) so be mercifull toward her , and if you sent her ( i.e to wake up) so protect/ preserve her by whatever you protect/preserve your rightious servants

 

[jakasaki]

by your name my lord i put my side (in sleeping) ; and by your name i lift it up . if you hold my spirit (i.e death ) so be mercifull toward her , and if you sent her ( i.e to wake up) so protect/ preserve her by whatever you protect/preserve your rightious servants

Yes, I got it, BUT who is “her”

 

[Hadi]

Thanks Hadi ~

Ok on this one…
in your name my Lord I put my side and by you I shall revive .

ok if I translate it to “I shall wake up” ,does that help you understand

I’m puzzled by this one ~

It sounds like mohamad is saying that “if allah takes his soul while he’s sleeping” which I understand … but… who is he talking about “forgive her”? Forgive whom and for what?

If you keep my soul, forgive her. and if you send her, watch over her by what you watch over your sincere servants

this was my translation ,literal one

Soul ,Nafs in Arabic (*nephesh in Heb) * is female, hence I used “her”…

note…when you study the Ahadiths (or even Jewish Oral tradition) ,you have to immerse yourself with the language used in that period of time and the culture people lived in , otherwise,it would be difficult to understand…it’s similar to proverbs , they hardly make sense if translated to other language

 

[elwill]

Yes, I got it, BUT who is “her”

i just started my post before the answer of hadi , i didn’t mean to repeat or emphasize the answer

 

[jakasaki]

QUOTE=Hadi;5628680]ok if I translate it to “I shall wake up” ,does that help you understand

I already understood the above…

this was my translation ,literal one

Soul ,Nafs in Arabic (*nephesh in Heb) * is female, hence I used “her”…

note…when you study the Ahadiths (or even Jewish Oral tradition) ,you have to immerse yourself with the language used in that period of time and the culture people lived in , otherwise,it would be difficult to understand…it’s similar to proverbs , they hardly make sense if translated to other language

This is the one I did not understand and wanted to know who “her” is.

 

[Hadi]

i just started my post before the answer of hadi , i didn’t mean to repeat or emphasize the answer

it’s good to see your translation , I like to translate literally …and you seem to translate based on the meaning of the phrase…

 

[jakasaki]

OK Hadi & Elwill

Is the word “soul” in Arabic a “femine” word? I’m trying to find out about the reference to “her”…

Can you guys explain it more…

Thanks

 

[jakasaki]

Can you also translate the Arabic bold letters for me…

Volume 8, Book 75, Number 323:

Narrated Al-Bara bin 'Azib:

Allah’s Apostle said to me,

"When you want to go to bed, perform ablution as you do for prayer, then lie down on your right side and say:

**‘Allahumma aslamtu wajhi ilaika, wa fauwadtu Amri ilaika wa aljatu zahri ilaika, raghbatan wa rahbatan ilaika, lamalja’a wa la manja mink a ill a ilaika. Amantu bikitabi kalladhi anzalta wa bi nabiyyikal-ladhi arsalta’. **

If you should die then (after reciting this) you will die on the religion of Islam (i.e., as a Muslim); so let these words be the last you say (before going to bed)"

While I was memorizing it, I said, "Wa birasiulikal-ladhi arsalta (in Your Apostle whom You have sent).’

The Prophet said, “No, but say: Wa binabiyyi-kalladhi arsalta (in Your Prophet whom You have sent).”

Thanks!

 

[elwill]

Can you also translate the Arabic bold letters for me…

Volume 8, Book 75, Number 323:

Narrated Al-Bara bin 'Azib:

Allah’s Apostle said to me,

"When you want to go to bed, perform ablution as you do for prayer, then lie down on your right side and say:

**‘Allahumma aslamtu wajhi ilaika, wa fauwadtu Amri ilaika wa aljatu zahri ilaika, raghbatan wa rahbatan ilaika, lamalja’a wa la manja mink a ill a ilaika. Amantu bikitabi kalladhi anzalta wa bi nabiyyikal-ladhi arsalta’. **

If you should die then (after reciting this) you will die on the religion of Islam (i.e., as a Muslim); so let these words be the last you say (before going to bed)"

While I was memorizing it, I said, "Wa birasiulikal-ladhi arsalta (in Your Apostle whom You have sent).’

The Prophet said, “No, but say: Wa binabiyyi-kalladhi arsalta (in Your Prophet whom You have sent).”

Thanks!

`O Allah! I have submitted myself to You, I have turned myself to You, committed my affairs to You and sought Your refuge for protection out of desire for You and fear of You (expecting Your reward and fearing Your punishment). There is no refuge and no place of safety from You but with You. I believe in the Book You have revealed and in the Prophet (PBUH) You have sent.

 

[elwill]

OK Hadi & Elwill

Is the word “soul” in Arabic a “femine” word? I’m trying to find out about the reference to “her”…

Can you guys explain it more…

Thanks

yes jakasaki
“her” in this hadeeth refere to the soul whether soul of man or soul of woman
the word " soul" itself is femine word in arabic language

 

[jakasaki]

`O Allah! I have submitted myself to You, I have turned myself to You, committed my affairs to You and sought Your refuge for protection out of desire for You and fear of You (expecting Your reward and fearing Your punishment). There is no refuge and no place of safety from You but with You. I believe in the Book You have revealed and in the Prophet (PBUH) You have sent.

Thanks Elwill.

 

[jakasaki]

yes jakasaki
“her” in this hadeeth refere to the soul whether soul of man or soul of woman
the word " soul" itself is femine word in arabic language

OK thanks again!