Question on Novus Ordo in Latin

[Rykell]

Palmas:

…the use of the vernacular really doesn’t bother me except that it fosters dis-unity, especially in congregations where you have multiple ethnicities and languages…

Brendan lives in Detroit, a huge city, and I don’t know your background, Palmas, but my area is composed of very small rural communities. At one time, my town had a separate ethnic church for Italians, Polish, Slavic and Irish. They tell me that the women sat on one side and the men on the other. EEK! … and that the priest had to give two homilies to accomodate everyone.

That age has gone to the Lord, and the language now is english. One must travel a good 45 miles to attend the only latin mass in the area. So I guess I can rest in peace if I follow the directions of my Bishop in having all parishes celebrate in english. If and when he makes a change, then I will learn latin, I suppose.

The idea of travel is not going to affect 95% of the people who might go to other countries, so language is not going to be a problem for us. I doubt our bishops will specify latin be used in all masses universally just to accomodate travelers. There is one place where language is a problem and that is in Florida where they hold at least one spanish mass for the ethnic people who live there. But that is still not latin.

Aren’t you glad we don’t have this responsibility to work out all the problems in liturgy? My head is already tired after grappling with the ideas in this thread! Not sure I want to do this again.

 

[Walking_Home]

Rykell: Hi

A truly great document.

I note that it does not forbid Latin, although I really already knew that it did not do so…

I also note that it does not MANDATE the use of the vernacular in any way shape or form. The document actually concerns itself more with the proper translations of all Liturgical documents. It does not set forth which parts of the Mass, if any, should be said in the vernacular.

---

I agree. I did not see anywhere in the document where Latin is forbidden.

I also agree that said document ---- addresses the proper translation of liturgical documents.

 

[Walking_Home]

I will also add----that Latin is still the language of the Church.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

Can. 928 The eucharistic celebration is to be carried out in the Latin language or in another language provided that the liturgical texts have been legitimately approved.

 

[Brendan]

The idea of travel is not going to affect 95% of the people who might go to other countries, so language is not going to be a problem for us.

What about travellers who come here from other countries, are we supposed to be inhospitalble to them? What about celebrating WITH them in a common language? Wouldn’t that be a wonderful, welcoming thing to do? What bishop would object to that?

I doubt our bishops will specify latin be used in all masses universally just to accomodate travelers.

I don’t think anyone in this thread advocated ALL Masses be said in Latin. But what is wrong with 1 Sunday Mass each week being said in Latin?

There is one place where language is a problem and that is in Florida where they hold at least one spanish mass for the ethnic people who live there. But that is still not latin.

What what about Hispanic travellers?

The place I learned the Latin Mass was at just such a parish. My father’s parish was half anglophone and half hispanic. Right after Vat II, instead of balkanizing the congregation into English Masses and Spainish Masses, the pastor just used the new Latin Mass and continued doing what he had been otherwise doing with the Tridentine Mass. Everyone worshipped together.

My father took us to his home parish about monthly and gave us a decent understanding of what we being said. I am now doing something similar with my children. It’s just too important not to.

 

[palmas85]

Brendan lives in Detroit, a huge city, and I don’t know your background, Palmas, but my area is composed of very small rural communities. At one time, my town had a separate ethnic church for Italians, Polish, Slavic and Irish. They tell me that the women sat on one side and the men on the other. EEK! … and that the priest had to give two homilies to accomodate everyone.

That age has gone to the Lord, and the language now is english. One must travel a good 45 miles to attend the only latin mass in the area. So I guess I can rest in peace if I follow the directions of my Bishop in having all parishes celebrate in english. If and when he makes a change, then I will learn latin, I suppose.

The idea of travel is not going to affect 95% of the people who might go to other countries, so language is not going to be a problem for us. I doubt our bishops will specify latin be used in all masses universally just to accomodate travelers. There is one place where language is a problem and that is in Florida where they hold at least one spanish mass for the ethnic people who live there. But that is still not latin.

Aren’t you glad we don’t have this responsibility to work out all the problems in liturgy? My head is already tired after grappling with the ideas in this thread! Not sure I want to do this again.

I’m a Filipino by birth, and a U.S, citizen by naturalization. I grew up in New Orleans after my dad, also a Filipino, and a career Navy cook, got transferred there by an outgoing captain who liked his cooking:thumbsup: I spoke very little English, actually almost none except for swear words when I got here, but did know the Latin for the Mass as I had been an altar boy back home. That was my salvation actually.

I don’t have the maniacal hatred for Latin that so many people have nor do I have this morbid fear of it that many also seem to have. The knowledge of Latin allowed me to fit in so to speak when otherwise I would not have… It allowed me to unite with others of my age with whom I could not otherwise communicate. It actually helped me a lot and smoothed out many things…

On to the present

In my home parish, I would say 30% of the congregation is Filipino, about 20% Vietnamese, 20% Mexican, 15% African, although I’m not sure where most of them are from, they all seem to speak different languages, I know that much, 10%Anglo and the rest from all over. I would guess that at least half of the congregation doesn’t speak either English Spanish, or Vietnamese at a fluent level, the only languages the Mass is offered in. They are by use of one of the three vernaculars, effectively frozen out of the full and active participation that the Church calls for in the Mass these days.

As I said, in homgenous socities, with little ethnic diversity, the use of the vernacular should, all things considered, not be a problem at all. I’m sure that when they introduced the idea, they didn’t consider what massive waves of immigration into the first world countries would do to the ethnic make up of those countries. But now we have multiple ethnic groups making up the congregations. The use of the vernacular for the entire Mass breeds a separatism, almost a Balkanization of the congregation and I see it happening in my own Parish. example, very few Mexicans will attend the Masses that are that are in English. They even have their own CCD and RCIA programs. The groups do not mingle and have no real contact with each other. So where is the unity that we aspire to? If the Masses were in Latin then at least you might have the groups attempting to blend in.

No I think Latin is fine as the Liturgical language of the Church. It puts everyone on the same page. Everybody has to sacrifice a little so to speak, and that shared sacrifice usually breed unity and some degree of respect. And you never know it might even open up a few doors that might otherwise be closed.

Like it did for me.