question re islam

[Fone_Bone_2001]

You say that to a fellow Christian on this forum but obviously Muslim men think very much what is going on in a Muslim woman’s heart/intentions to the point of their law taking care of the issue.

And how does that give us license to imitate their bad example? Hint: It doesn’t.

We are Christians, and our Lord instructs us to judge not. Spiritually it’s none of our business whether particular individuals cover themselves conspicuously in a genuine effort at modesty or in a spirit of pride.

I’m sorry, but many attack fellow Christians but turn a blind eye to other faiths who have the power to actually punish the Muslim women, who are the victims here.

But we’re not talking about hardcore Islamic societies here. At all. The OP explicitly suggested that Muslim women choose to wear stylish, attractive head scarves to attract attention to themselves.

Since he couched it in terms of free choice, obviously the context here is in the politically free societies of the developed West. A Muslim woman like our friend Seek Truth in this thread is not being punished. She chooses how she lives, how she dresses, etc. She has freedom, and no Muslim man is forcing her to dress or behave the way she chooses to; she said even her parents aren’t Muslim.

Peace be with you too. May you find peace with what you confessed here.

I find this confession to be truly hypocritical. Pleasure of Allah? My dear sister, it would be much better to confess that you are a sinner than to be a hypocrite.

However, I can not blame you because you do not believe in asking for forgiveness because you always believe that Allah will forgive you every time you sin.

I don’t think this is a fair - or even coherent - critique. How is it hypocritical to seek to please God? Don’t we Christians seek to please God as well?

And don’t we Christians also believe that God will forgive us for our sins as long as we are truly repentant? The Sacrament of Reconciliation itself presupposes as much.

 

[rikkk1958]

Practically speaking when one wears “provocative” clothing this person is inviting sins from another person that this person will commit lustful feelings. That wearing head scarf and long dresses will prevent another to have such feelings, am I making this clear? Does it mean no one will no longer commit lustful feelings when every women wears those dresses? And is this how much Muslims becomes so proud of their faith because they wear them and thus prevent men to be lustful?

My dear friends, I call you hypocrites because you are hiding from what human is all about. Humans who are already sinners because they preferred to have free will. Being Christian and especially as a Catholic we are proud of the virtues we instill to ourselves even we see provocations around us. Yes, we are proud of our faith because we confess we are sinners and this is the reason why when one choose to be holier they must remain to be single or enter the convent or seminary and better, a monastery. I admire those who choose to live accordingly to please God for the rest of their lives.

So, let’s go back to practicality. I am just a normal human being, I have desires, feelings, and weak. Yes I satisfy my wife that is why we have kids, but I don’t have intercourse with her and have God in my thoughts while I am doing it. Yes I am not hypocrite. I felt the joy of what God designed for me but in return, we devout ourselves to Him and worship Him as our God during the appropriate times. I am a sinner because I am weak but it is not about because women are wearing this and that but because we are HUMANS and not God. We are told to be perfect in our scriptures, to be like God who is perfect, but is impossible for men, while everything for God is possible.

So my dear friends, seeing is one thing while lust is another. We can only hope for obedience that God want us to do. Catholics follow what God wants us to do even though we are not perfect. However, when one ask, God listens and with sincerity in their hearts, God will show mercy. The whole Bible story gives us all the perfect intention of God for His creation from beginning to end. The ultimate sacrifice of His Son was the redemption of all sins because once again people becomes disobedient. God showed us his glory through His Son that the hope for all those who obeys is eternal life with Him. He died but rose from the dead giving us hope that death will not prevail when one obeys.

 

[Seek_Truth]

I honestly don’t see what you are tryna get at…

Because I dress modestly, doesn’t mean I don’t sin at all lol of course I’m human, I sin but I must sincerely try to avoid as much sins as possible. We will never be perfect, but Allah SWT command us to be as good as you can be sincerly,through intention, thought and action…

Saying that, the Intention lies between the individual and Allah SWT. He knows what we conceal and what we reveal. I mean, you can have a sister dressing modestly with niqab but who knows if she’s doing for Allah SWT or because of social stigmas so that she could attract attention… Allahu Alam ( God knows)

In terms of repentance, I will never guarantee that Allah has forgiven me until I die and I will come to know. and I like it that way because it sorta motivates me to always make sincere repentance, because I will never know the answer right? lol

But you know, I live in a household where Christianity and Islam holds it’s place, with peace and tranquility. And allot of people have a hard time believing that lool but it’s true they say, " How do they live knowing you don’t believe Jesus is God? And how do you live knowing they believe Jesus is God?" and I respond by learning how to agree to disagree. And let me tell you agreeing to disagree does not work if you lack an understanding of the different religion…

You know when I converted to Islam, my parent weren’t the happiest people in the world, quite honestly they were disappointed, but I explained how I felt about it…

For me I think Christianity is quite beautiful, I have and I’m still learning things from Christianity that I think are beneficial for everyone. The things I didn’t feel comfortable about is the Idea of God being three all equal in respect but still being One, God needing to sacrifice himself to forgive while He can just forgive without blood, and the idea of Orginal sin…

I know that these are key concepts in Christianity, and although I may feel differently about the truth to those concepts, it is my duty to accept what you, and my parents believe and try to learn something good from it and leave it at there. Im not gonna argue with my parents 24/7 with my parents about why I believe Jesus is not God and There can be no God but God. Instead we will engage in open dialogue, respecting one another and accepting each others difference and just live with it.

And I thank my parents and everyone who has kept patient

May peace be upon all of you

Your sis, Canada

 

[rikkk1958]

I think you are trying to learn about God the easy way and that is to believe the alleged revelation of Muhammed. I have a hard time understanding someone believing someone telling that he wrestled with God and revealed to him his words. What you do not want to understand is why Muhammed acted that way and where did he get all his ideas about God. There are many religion now that is propagating just because they claim to have seen or talk with God.

I suggest you study what Christianity is really all about especially Catholicism.

 

[JHow]

…but then why do so many muslim women wear stylish head scarves that attract attention? not only that, they also frequently wear stylish shoes that match, or at least compliment, the scarves…

Seriously, you are asking why women like to wear stylish things? Attention to dress is what I would call a common female characteristic. My daughter delights in “dressing” up, and she’s only two years old. Clearly finding a husband or attracting men is not yet on her mind.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Seriously, you are asking why women like to wear stylish things? Attention to dress is what I would call a common female characteristic. My daughter delights in “dressing” up, and she’s only two years old. Clearly finding a husband or attracting men is not yet on her mind.

Thank you for helping to inject some common sense into this discussion.

 

[sedonaman]

… and maybe some women become muslim precisely to get that extra attention.
…

I would doubt this because it makes about as much sense as buying a cow just to get a quart of milk occasionally. But I guess anything is possible.

 

[Cincy]

At what age do most muslim women start wearing the long dress and scarf. the reason for asking is at the mall I saw a muslim family with father,mother and young son in traditional clothes but early teenage daughter was in traditional american mall wear. short shorts and tshirt

 

[Sam_777]

At what age do most muslim women start wearing the long dress and scarf.

At the age of menstruation per Muhammed hadith:

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 32, Number 4092:
Asma, daughter of AbuBakr, entered upon the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) wearing thin clothes. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) turned his attention from her. He said: O Asma’, when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to her face and hands.

سنن أبي داود:
أن أسماء بنت أبي بكر دخلت على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وعليها ثياب رقاق، فأعرض عنها رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، وقال: يا أسماء إن المرأة إذا بلغت المحيض لم تصلح أن يرى منها إلا هذا وهذا- وأشار إلى وجهه وكفيه
​

(E) (A)

 

[Abu_Toshiba]

My dear friends, I call you hypocrites …

My dear friend, since this is a claim you made out of ignorance, I forgive you.

 

[Murcury]

I think you are trying to learn about God the easy way and that is to believe the alleged revelation of Muhammed. I have a hard time understanding someone believing someone telling that he wrestled with God and revealed to him his words. What you do not want to understand is why Muhammed acted that way and where did he get all his ideas about God. There are many religion now that is propagating just because they claim to have seen or talk with God.

I suggest you study what Christianity is really all about especially Catholicism.

If I’m not mistaken, Jacob (or one of the early Patriarchs of the Jewish people) wrestled with God too according to the Bible. Why would you believe him?

Every religion says they are correct, including Catholicism. What evidence is there to show that someone resurrected and is one with God? Muhammad was a man with a lot of charity and kindness, he’s “Christ-like”. My favorite stories about him are when people did horrible things to him (throwing garbage in his path for example) but he only shows love and care for them. Or, there is one where someone started insulting him and he stopped his companions from hitting the man for the insults but instead said, “Mildness. Be mild in everything you do.” Or, in another, where a man came up to him and demanded repayment for a loan, one of Muhammad’s companions scared the man. Muhammad repaid the loan with 20 extra of the unit of currency he used as an apology for his companion scaring the man.

Respectfully brother, don’t just start attacking a religion with so much in common with yours. It only makes the rifts larger. I appreciate curiosity and debate, but I can’t help but feel an air of arrogance and hostility. Peace brother.

 

[sedonaman]

… It only makes the rifts larger. I appreciate curiosity and debate, but I can’t help but feel an air of arrogance and hostility. Peace brother.

And the rifts will remain as long as Islamic countries [e.g., Saudi Arabia] deny other religions the same freedoms Islam enjoys in the West. Perhaps this is one source of “arrogance and hostility.”

 

[rikkk1958]

If I’m not mistaken, Jacob (or one of the early Patriarchs of the Jewish people) wrestled with God too according to the Bible. Why would you believe him?

Every religion says they are correct, including Catholicism. What evidence is there to show that someone resurrected and is one with God? Muhammad was a man with a lot of charity and kindness, he’s “Christ-like”. My favorite stories about him are when people did horrible things to him (throwing garbage in his path for example) but he only shows love and care for them. Or, there is one where someone started insulting him and he stopped his companions from hitting the man for the insults but instead said, “Mildness. Be mild in everything you do.” Or, in another, where a man came up to him and demanded repayment for a loan, one of Muhammad’s companions scared the man. Muhammad repaid the loan with 20 extra of the unit of currency he used as an apology for his companion scaring the man.

Respectfully brother, don’t just start attacking a religion with so much in common with yours. It only makes the rifts larger. I appreciate curiosity and debate, but I can’t help but feel an air of arrogance and hostility. Peace brother.

I am sorry if you are offended my friend. This is my opinion based on what I learned. Your response though is not as reasonable because the story of the Holy Bible is just too much for you to compare with the life of Muhammed. You have in your Prophet a singular story based on alleged event that took place, while the story of the Holy Bible will overwhelmed you with its accuracies and connectivity from ages to ages until the life of Jesus Christ. This is the reason why many false prophets that came around who sounded believable and wrote books much comprehensive than your Quran. They also prospered just because they claimed to have seen God.

I am not advocating hostilities here and believes that this forum is all about proclaiming the truth about God. We are here determined to proclaimed the truth to those who are lost, so that they may be informed, so that they may also gain salvation. If you think you can convince us that you have the truth then you are free to try by asking questions to members here. I will not be the only one who will debate with you and I believe that many here are well informed to give you answers. We have been bashed all over the world in any form of communication and we do not take it as hostile, in fact, we welcome them so that we may be able to respond with the truth.

 

[Murcury]

And the rifts will remain as long as Islamic countries [e.g., Saudi Arabia] deny other religions the same freedoms Islam enjoys in the West. Perhaps this is one source of “arrogance and hostility.”

Please, do not take the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia as an example of a Muslim country. They go against Islamic law with their brutality and repression. In the Qur’an it is mentioned many times there is no compulsion in religion. Rather, look at the Righteously Guided Caliphs and their tolerance or look at the Ottomans taking in the Jews after the Reconquista forced them out. Caliph Umar, when he conquered Jerusalem, was invited by the Patriarch to pray in a church. Umar went and prayed outside of it, refusing to go in, because if he prayed in the church, future generations may try to make it into a mosque because Caliph Umar prayed there.

 

[sedonaman]

Please, do not take the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia as an example of a Muslim country. They go against Islamic law with their brutality and repression. In the Qur’an it is mentioned many times there is no compulsion in religion. …

We’ve heard all this many times before. For every passage in the Qur’an, there is an equal but opposite passage. So “no compulsion in religion” has as a counterpart, “Whoever changes his religion, kill him.”

Only a few years ago there was a case of a Muslim man in Pakistan who converted to Christianity and was found guilty and condemned to death. The only thing that saved him was the bad international publicity Pakistan was getting. Now is Pakistan also not a real Muslim country?

 

[Murcury]

We’ve heard all this many times before. For every passage in the Qur’an, there is an equal but opposite passage. So “no compulsion in religion” has as a counterpart, “Whoever changes his religion, kill him.”

Only a few years ago there was a case of a Muslim man in Pakistan who converted to Christianity and was found guilty and condemned to death. The only thing that saved him was the bad international publicity Pakistan was getting. Now is Pakistan also not a real Muslim country?

If I’m not mistaken, Pakistani law is based off of British law. I would like a citation for the verse “Whoever changes his religion, kill him”. Also, please remember, in the time of Muhammad, if a person left Islam, it usually meant betrayal and as a persecuted community, betrayal was bad. If an American was a traitor, wouldn’t he be punished severely? The situation about the Pakistani man is unfortunate and what happened is wrong. Please, understand the difference between a Muslim majority country and a Muslim country. The USA is a Christian majority country, but it isn’t a Christian country.

 

[sedonaman]

…I would like a citation for the verse “Whoever changes his religion, kill him”. Also, please remember, in the time of Muhammad, if a person left Islam, it usually meant betrayal and as a persecuted community, betrayal was bad. If an American was a traitor, wouldn’t he be punished severely? The situation about the Pakistani man is unfortunate and what happened is wrong. Please, understand the difference between a Muslim majority country and a Muslim country. The USA is a Christian majority country, but it isn’t a Christian country.

I know where this discussion is going because I’ve been down this road many times before. I will quote the verse; you will say I’ve “taken it out of context,” and then you will quote some verse in the Bible [as though it were relevant], and I will get suckered into explaining and justifying it instead of you justifying the death penalty for a Muslim opting out of Islam. You will have accomplished your mission of minimizing criticism of Islam and “insults” to your prophet.

Is that about it in a nutshell?

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Sedonaman, I don’t think you’re being fair to Islam.

Muslims believe a lot of good things, and moderate Muslims are no more responsible for their faith’s extremists than we are for ours.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think there are problems with Islam - even inherent problems. And I do disagree, of course, with Murcury on one point: historically speaking, I find the evidence that Jesus Christ was crucified, died, and then truly rose bodily from the dead to be overwhelming.

But bashing Islam is no more honest than praising it and pretending it’s a deeply, inherently peaceful faith on all counts. Both ideological responses to Islam are thoroughly lacking in nuance and credibility.

And by the way, sedonaman, just so you know: your last response makes it look like you’re bluffing and you really have no idea if or where the Qur’an says, “Whoever changes his religion, kill him.” If you’re not bluffing, you should provide the citation, not patronizingly refuse to do so because you already “know” that Murcury’s response/explanation will be insufficient and evasive.

 

[jakasaki]

Sedonaman, I don’t think you’re being fair to Islam.

Muslims believe a lot of good things, and moderate Muslims are no more responsible for their faith’s extremists than we are for ours.

That doesn’t mean I don’t think there are problems with Islam - even inherent problems. And I do disagree, of course, with Murcury on one point: historically speaking, I find the evidence that Jesus Christ was crucified, died, and then truly rose bodily from the dead to be overwhelming.

But bashing Islam is no more honest than praising it and pretending it’s a deeply, inherently peaceful faith on all counts. Both ideological responses to Islam are thoroughly lacking in nuance and credibility.

And by the way, sedonaman, just so you know: your last response makes it look like you’re bluffing and you really have no idea if or where the Qur’an says, “Whoever changes his religion, kill him.” If you’re not bluffing, you should provide the citation, not patronizingly refuse to do so because you already “know” that Murcury’s response/explanation will be insufficient and evasive.

One man’s truth is another man’s lie!

I did NOT see any “bashing” from poster “sedonaman”…

We as regular posters on this forum have seen quite a bit from islam.

Claim from muslims: → islam is the truth - Christianity is false - Men have changed the Bible - it is NOT the Word of God
Claim from muslims: → mohamad is the truth & final messenger
Claim from muslims: → mohamad was send to all humanity
Claim from muslims: → the koran is for all and final book
Claim from muslims: → Jesus was NOT crucified - He was NOT Divine - He Jesus is NOT the Son of God because allah did NOT have a son - He Jesus did NOT resurect… - No where did Jesus say “worship me”… etc… etc… -

It’s getting old…!!!

The citation you are looking for is not in the koran - the koran states there is no complusion in religion - 2.256

However: their hadith and apostasy laws state differently.

Bukhari, volume 9, #57

Narrated Ikrima, "Some atheists were brought to Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s messenger forbade it, saying, “Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire**).” I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Messenger, “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.”**

 

[Inishfree]

Modesty does not mean ugly, but then modesty should not be transformed to perform the opposite in a sense…

I see where your coming from

Im a young muslim girl and I do dress as modestly as possible, often wearing abayas. Usually I stick with one colour hijab, or minimum designs because sometimes ones modesty might be the source of attention, which is often the case when girls start to over do the hijab, with crazy design and glitter that will blind your eyes lol, to the point where the hijab in itself holds no relevance and it become nothing more than a mere accessory

But deep down inside, I don’t seek the pleasure of society, or the pleasure of my father, or the pleasure of my husband when I do get married lol but for the pleasure of Allah.

May peace be upon you guys

Sis, Canada

Hi Seek Truth,

I am a middle aged Catholic lady and I dress modestly too. Some of the fashions worn by young women today are not appropriate. To me it looks like prostitute clothing and If I had a teenage daughter. She wouldn’t be wearing it.

Peace be upon you.