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Pokedaughter
Guest
Can someone please tell me what the Rite of Covenant is? The kids have to do this as part of confirmation in Sunday night mass at the end of March.
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Corki
Guest
I am confused. In the first post, you said you weren’t Catholic, but now you are helping the Confirmation class with their homework?
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Phemie
Guest
I had never heard of this. Googling it turned this up:
The Rite of Covenant: The covenant rite celebrates the candidate’s desire to fully explore the Tradition of Roman Catholicism as immediate preparation for celebrating the sacrament of confirmation.
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puzzleannie
Guest
I have the rite of confirmation in front of me and this is not included. I am guessing this is the part when the candidates are called forward by name with the sponsors, but I don’t see the word “covenant” used anywhere, but am eager to be enlightened.
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Phemie
Guest
It’s not part of the Confirmation Rite. It’s a step of the Confirmation Program for some dioceses.
What are the main components of the
Confirmation Process?
The Confirmation process includes four
periods, invitation, formation, reflection
and mission. Each period focuses on
helping the candidates grow to an
understanding of the sacrament of
Confirmation. At the end of each period,
the candidate affirms their commitment
to their faith through liturgical rites, the
Rite of Entrance, the Rite of Covenant
and the Rite of Confirmation.
Confirmation Process?
The Confirmation process includes four
periods, invitation, formation, reflection
and mission. Each period focuses on
helping the candidates grow to an
understanding of the sacrament of
Confirmation. At the end of each period,
the candidate affirms their commitment
to their faith through liturgical rites, the
Rite of Entrance, the Rite of Covenant
and the Rite of Confirmation.
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Pokedaughter
Guest
No. I am not Catholic. lol (regarding the poster who asked if I was helping with homework) I was just asking what the Rite of Covenant was. I guess no one really knows though. I do think the sponsors have to be there.
But I actually did help one of the boys with his Saints project. He chose Paul and I know all about Paul and his life and ministry so we put together a rock’n poster presentation!
(I think that is when his mom began to accept me as a friend. Before that she ran in a pretty tight social circle of only those who belonged to the Catholic faith.)
And is it inappropriate for me to go to the Confirmation service if I am not Catholic? I just thought since my kids and I are friends with about 15 of the kids being confirmed it might be nice to go.
But I actually did help one of the boys with his Saints project. He chose Paul and I know all about Paul and his life and ministry so we put together a rock’n poster presentation!
(I think that is when his mom began to accept me as a friend. Before that she ran in a pretty tight social circle of only those who belonged to the Catholic faith.)And is it inappropriate for me to go to the Confirmation service if I am not Catholic? I just thought since my kids and I are friends with about 15 of the kids being confirmed it might be nice to go.
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Phemie
Guest
Please go, I’m sure the kids would be happy to have their friends there, even if they’re not Catholic
There is absolutely nothing inappropriate about you and your kids going.
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Pokedaughter
Guest
Thanks Phemie! So does anyone know what they do at the Rite of Covenant. Is it just a presentation of confirmands or is there a profession of some kind the students are asked to make? Or is it a time of blessing? Or all of the above?
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
Get there a bit early. It will probably be crowded.Please go, I’m sure the kids would be happy to have their friends there, even if they’re not Catholic
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Inman
Guest
Pokedaughter,
This is not really in response to a specific comment, but may help you understand the catholic perspecitve on the religous education of children.
A parent has the responsibility for the religous education of their child. Specifically, it is the duty of the parent to pass on the catholic faith to their children. This mirrors the role of the chuch in passing on the faith from generation to generation. Keep in mind, we believe the faith of the Catholic Church was first given by Christ to the apostles and has been handed down from age to age.
So from a catholic’s perspective, a parent is not just merely passing on his or her own ideas or religous preferences to the child, but rather we are passing on what Christ gave apostles so many years ago, which in turn was given to us.
How best to pass on and instruct that faith to children is largely a question prudential judgment. The chuch has determined that for the vast majority of children, the best method is the pre-confirmation classes held at parishes to supplement instruction given by the parents.
This is not really in response to a specific comment, but may help you understand the catholic perspecitve on the religous education of children.
A parent has the responsibility for the religous education of their child. Specifically, it is the duty of the parent to pass on the catholic faith to their children. This mirrors the role of the chuch in passing on the faith from generation to generation. Keep in mind, we believe the faith of the Catholic Church was first given by Christ to the apostles and has been handed down from age to age.
So from a catholic’s perspective, a parent is not just merely passing on his or her own ideas or religous preferences to the child, but rather we are passing on what Christ gave apostles so many years ago, which in turn was given to us.
How best to pass on and instruct that faith to children is largely a question prudential judgment. The chuch has determined that for the vast majority of children, the best method is the pre-confirmation classes held at parishes to supplement instruction given by the parents.
O
OutinChgoburbs
Guest
The so-called Rite of Covenant is an add-in by some dioceses or parishes (individual Catholic churches). It is NOT necessary for a young person to be confirmed. It is in my mind something that is added to a Confirmaiton program so the Powers That Be in a parish can say that they have significantly prepared their confirmands. It really has nothing to do with Confirmation, or as it is known in the Eastern Church, Chrismation.
Here is an explanation of it by a couple parishes that use such a rite:
holyfamily.com/documents/Confirmation%20Program%20Flyer.pdf
http://www.stpeterskenosha.com/confirmation_200708.pdf
I have to tell you that not only is it unnecessary, to my mind it is something we Catholics have been debating long and hard here, the fact that more emphasis is inappropriately placed on the young person’s commitment than on the action of the bishop (who confers Confirmation) and the action of the Holy Spirit. There are many threads on the topic of “jumping through hoops” to be confirmed. If you use the SEARCH feature, you’ll find more of an explanation.
I did notice that, as an example of “hoops” one parish expects the candidate to go to confession (reconciliation). In the Catholic Church, a priest is never allowed to tell if person went or not, and there can never be a written record of who went and who didn’t. So, there you go. Another “hoop”. One parish drags out over almost 3 years what can usually be accomplished in three-six months. Another “hoop”.
It is why you will find Phemie, puzzleannie, me and several others of the mind that the Latin Church (Western Rite, plain old Roman Catholic) go back to the days when Baptism, Confirmation/ Chrismation and First Communion were done all at the same time, and include infants in all three of what are known as initiation sacraments.
Here is an explanation of it by a couple parishes that use such a rite:
holyfamily.com/documents/Confirmation%20Program%20Flyer.pdf
http://www.stpeterskenosha.com/confirmation_200708.pdf
I have to tell you that not only is it unnecessary, to my mind it is something we Catholics have been debating long and hard here, the fact that more emphasis is inappropriately placed on the young person’s commitment than on the action of the bishop (who confers Confirmation) and the action of the Holy Spirit. There are many threads on the topic of “jumping through hoops” to be confirmed. If you use the SEARCH feature, you’ll find more of an explanation.
I did notice that, as an example of “hoops” one parish expects the candidate to go to confession (reconciliation). In the Catholic Church, a priest is never allowed to tell if person went or not, and there can never be a written record of who went and who didn’t. So, there you go. Another “hoop”. One parish drags out over almost 3 years what can usually be accomplished in three-six months. Another “hoop”.
It is why you will find Phemie, puzzleannie, me and several others of the mind that the Latin Church (Western Rite, plain old Roman Catholic) go back to the days when Baptism, Confirmation/ Chrismation and First Communion were done all at the same time, and include infants in all three of what are known as initiation sacraments.
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Phemie
Guest
O
OutinChgoburbs
Guest
Works for me!
T
thomasf
Guest
I am going to speak about this from experience. When I was a teen and it came time for confirmation, I didn’t want anything to do with it. I was a know-it-all kid that didn’t think he needed to be confirmed and didn’t want to continue being a catholic as an adult. And most of the kids I went through religious ed and confirmation had the same attitude. But I went, because my mother made me, and it wasn’t up for debate. So even though I didn’t want to, and was just going through it for her, I was confirmed. And I had all the same objections and questions and stuff that kids today, tomorrow, and 50 years ago have. The point is, just because I had those objections, didn’t mean I was right. And even if someone had taken a few minutes to answer my questions, I probably still would have been a stubborn teenager who didn’t want to do it, mostly because that’s what my mother wanted for me.
But fast forward to 15 or so years later, after I’d been out of the church for a while, and I came back to the church, being a confirmed catholic made it so much easier to return. And I firmly believe that whatever graces I did receive during the sacrament of confirmation made a mark on me. The whole time I was away, the church kept pulling on me to come back. And I felt that in my heart. I just didn’t always listen.
Kids are dumb. Because, they are still kids. They don’t have the experiences of life, think they know it all, and can’t see things in the longer context. THat’s how I was. But had I known even an inkling of what i know now I would have been much more open to confirmation. Since most kids aren’t that insightful, it’s a decision that has to be made for them by their parents. And even if they don’t understand that decision, or agree with it at the time, it is something the parents must do for the benefit of their children. And trust me, it does benefit them even if they don’t understand it.
But fast forward to 15 or so years later, after I’d been out of the church for a while, and I came back to the church, being a confirmed catholic made it so much easier to return. And I firmly believe that whatever graces I did receive during the sacrament of confirmation made a mark on me. The whole time I was away, the church kept pulling on me to come back. And I felt that in my heart. I just didn’t always listen.
Kids are dumb. Because, they are still kids. They don’t have the experiences of life, think they know it all, and can’t see things in the longer context. THat’s how I was. But had I known even an inkling of what i know now I would have been much more open to confirmation. Since most kids aren’t that insightful, it’s a decision that has to be made for them by their parents. And even if they don’t understand that decision, or agree with it at the time, it is something the parents must do for the benefit of their children. And trust me, it does benefit them even if they don’t understand it.
J
jmcrae
Guest
I wouldn’t mind this. I think anywhere from age 7-10 would be appropriate for doing Confirmation and First Holy Communion. A bit older would also allow them to do First Reconciliation at the same time, and get everything done in the same year.
That way, Initiation wouldn’t be such a long drawn-out process, and also, they wouldn’t be left with the impression that they get to “decide” whether or not they are “going to be Catholic” in their teen years - they would realize that they are already Catholic, and there would be no confusion about that at what is already a confusing time of life, anyway.
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Phemie
Guest
I’ve seen it work in my parish/diocese for 9 years – and yes it included reconciliation. Incredibly, parents who hadn’t been to confession in years, and feared it because of negative experiences as children, came to the reconciliation service we always have for the kids and were so moved by the experience that they opted to go to confession at that time. Alas, the realignment of the diocese eliminated this practice and pushed Confirmation back to between grade 6 - 10.
It always struck me as incredibly stupid to expect kids to ‘Commit’ to the Church at an age when they can’t even commit to a favorite band.
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Pokedaughter
Guest
Thank you guys. I am finally starting to understand the Sacraments of the Catholic church and the confirmation process. You see, being raised in the protestant church, we are taught that salvation comes through individual choice. That God “calls” us personally through the Holy Spirit and basically uses that initial calling as a time when we are first introduced to Salvation through Jesus Christ. Some people immediately desire a relationship with God through Jesus and experience **immediate inward ** transformation or… Some people choose to investigate further and spend more time working through their faith. God works differently with different people. Thus, a person “chooses” to make Jesus Lord of their lives and God takes over from there. That is when we believe the Holy Spirit takes up residence in our personal being and is our “helper” in our relationship with our Father. ( And I am guessing most of you already know this but I am just trying to put everything together.)
Some Protestant faiths practice infant baptism and then other protestant faiths practice “believers baptism” which (as you probably already know) occurs after one has trusted in Jesus Christ as their Saviour. Again this is personal choice through God’s timing. So event one: We trust Jesus as our Lord and Saviour (personal choice)
Event two: God takes up residence in our lives and beings by giving us His Holy Spirit. (totally not choice. It just happens ) and event three: We can choose to be baptized. (some protestant faiths don’t say you have to be baptized.) But the timing of Baptism is personal choice.
So…
What I am beginning to understand is that through the Catholic church, people receive God’s grace through the Sacraments of the church but that they do not necessarily have to be emotionally or intellectually involved in the process. Receiving the Sacraments is not a choice. So, God takes over and imparts His Spirit and grace but the individual does not really have to do anything? Just be physically present? (Such as infant baptismal cleansing and in some cases going ahead and confirming the child as well as proceeding with communion.)
Does this mean that just being a citizen of the Catholic church and receiving the Sacraments is all the person needs to do to initially receive Eternal Salvation in Heaven? But, a Catholic member does have the choice later whether or not they stay right with God. (Through works, and attending mass, and receiving the Holy Eucharist, etc…) and by remaining an active member of the Catholic church and obeying the church laws and receiving the remaining Sacraments as they apply? That the blessings of the Sacraments are bestowed Divinely by God through the priests as long as the individual is physically present?
Is that almost right? (Sorry I am not wording things appropriately. I’m still learning the vocabulary.)
Some Protestant faiths practice infant baptism and then other protestant faiths practice “believers baptism” which (as you probably already know) occurs after one has trusted in Jesus Christ as their Saviour. Again this is personal choice through God’s timing. So event one: We trust Jesus as our Lord and Saviour (personal choice)
Event two: God takes up residence in our lives and beings by giving us His Holy Spirit. (totally not choice. It just happens ) and event three: We can choose to be baptized. (some protestant faiths don’t say you have to be baptized.) But the timing of Baptism is personal choice.
So…
What I am beginning to understand is that through the Catholic church, people receive God’s grace through the Sacraments of the church but that they do not necessarily have to be emotionally or intellectually involved in the process. Receiving the Sacraments is not a choice. So, God takes over and imparts His Spirit and grace but the individual does not really have to do anything? Just be physically present? (Such as infant baptismal cleansing and in some cases going ahead and confirming the child as well as proceeding with communion.)
Does this mean that just being a citizen of the Catholic church and receiving the Sacraments is all the person needs to do to initially receive Eternal Salvation in Heaven? But, a Catholic member does have the choice later whether or not they stay right with God. (Through works, and attending mass, and receiving the Holy Eucharist, etc…) and by remaining an active member of the Catholic church and obeying the church laws and receiving the remaining Sacraments as they apply? That the blessings of the Sacraments are bestowed Divinely by God through the priests as long as the individual is physically present?
Is that almost right? (Sorry I am not wording things appropriately. I’m still learning the vocabulary.)
J
jmcrae
Guest
Yes. It’s ideal if they are, but for children, it’s not a requirement. (For adults, it is. If you were to convert, you would go through the process of RCIA, and it would be your free choice at the end, whether or not to receive the Sacraments of Initiation. But even in this case, you would be encouraged to receive the Sacraments rather than not, even if you didn’t understand everything perfectly.)
We have a story from the Confessions of St. Augustine, where a man who had had many doubts about the Catholic faith suffered some kind of an accident (I’m going from memory, and I don’t remember all of the details) - anyway, he became unconscious, and his mother was worried because he had never been baptized - she was a devout Catholic. It was looking as though he was going to die without waking up from his coma, so she arranged to have a priest come, and he was baptized and Confirmed and received the Anointing of the Sick while he was unconscious.
A few days later, he woke up, and from that moment on, all of his doubts about God were gone, and he put aside his women and his drinking and carousing, and began to live an exemplary life. When he was told that he had been baptized, etc. on what was thought to be his death-bed, he said, “Ah! That explains the dream I had …” and it turns out that Jesus had come to him in a dream and explained everything to him, at the moment that he became baptized.
To some extent, there is a choice, but it is up to the parents to make the decision on behalf of their underage children, ultimately.
Initially, yes.
This sounds about right, to me!
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Phemie
Guest
For baptism and confirmation you are right – children need not know anything since the Church says that infants who are in danger of dying must be baptized & should be confirmed at the same time.
Communion involves more. In order to receive Communion, children must be able to recognize that the ‘bread’ that they will be given is different from the bread that they eat at home and that, although it may look and taste like bread, it is in fact the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. They have to want to receive Jesus, not just accompany their parents to Communion.
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