Question to Catholics about Abortion

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A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.

Thomas Jefferson

Yes, I would like to see the laws in favor of abortion struck down. To end a human life for any reason is wrong. I don’t need to hear about how hard it is. I was a teenaged mother. And I have an Aunt that gave up a baby after becoming pregnant from a rape. So I have personal experience in this area. Her son is now in his 40s and has found his birth family.
 
rosetta_stone said:
That is patently untrue Hitler had approval ratings in the 80’s late into the war, and even with harassment and imprisonment of opposing parties. Hitler was also legally appointed chancellor by the president. The Nazi party was wildly popular in Germany after its initial successes and even without the oppression the Nazis would have had more votes than any other party.

You still have failed to grasp how illogical your argument. If a majority said that all people who are under 18 should be killed than you would say it is fine because it is democratic.

This my last post since you are probably a troll.
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80’s? what? World War 2 was 1939-1945.

Please rephrase the first part, I do not see how you get the 80’s out of this, Hitler was dead and gone by the 80’s cause he committed suicide both by gunshot and poision, in his Bunker under Berlin.

No, but that is against a law, and they’d have to abolish the other law making murder illegal first, and people do not elect leaders who put in their promises to change the law of not allowing murder.

ok, goodbye.
 
BareKnuckler said:
80’s? what? World War 2 was 1939-1945.

Please rephrase the first part, I do not see how you get the 80’s out of this, Hitler was dead and gone by the 80’s cause he committed suicide both by gunshot and poision, in his Bunker under Berlin.

No, but that is against a law, and they’d have to abolish the other law making murder illegal first, and people do not elect leaders who put in their promises to change the law of not allowing murder.

ok, goodbye.
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He meant hitler had an approval rating in the 80’s. Such as 80 percent.
 
johnshark said:
1.Let’s say, 51% of America, supported wearing underwear on your head, but 49% didn’t, would you want wearing underwear on your head out-lawed then, even though the majority of America, is ok with it? Cause if you do, then your willing to get rid of a piece of democracy.

or

2.Let’s say, 51% of America, supported forced sex with women, but 49% didn’t, would you want forced sex with women out-lawed then, even though the majority of America, is ok with it? Cause if you do, then your willing to get rid of a piece of democracy.
  1. silly
  2. scary
just because the majority if the country wants some thing to be legal doesn’t mean that it
should be. plurality doesnt equal morality
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This poster is asking about laws which are already in place and, whether you like it or not, affect you and your family one way or the other. Don’t smear his question with nonsense. It legitimately bears examination.

Limerick
 
Lets take this from a scientific angle which I am sure any atheist, secular. or freedom of choice person that is educated would want to do when it comes to laws and rights in a free country.

Science has declared that the life in a mother;s womb is human.

Any arguments here?

Science has declared that this Human life while dependent on the mother for maintaining life is a separate human life.

Any arguments here?

Science declares that the Human life in the womb has a heart beat in 3 weeks and brain waves in six weeks.

Is there a difference from the infant outside the womb as the child depends on others for life?

The baby is a life that is dependent upon outside sources in order to keep him or her alive.

How would you describe Human life?

Now who has the right to take away this life if we truly believe in our democracy the "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Freedom comes with responsibilities and the protection of life is one of them.

You can yell fire in a crowded movie theater.

Even though we are free to choose to yell fire in a crowded movie theater there are repercussions on that action.

We will never stop the wrongs in life or the evil out there on this earth but a free society must have protection for the most vulnerable. If these protections are not there then we are nothing more than animals with opposing thumbs, no morals, and conscious to separate us from the rest of the animal world.
 
c659smith said:
Lets take this from a scientific angle which I am sure any atheist, secular. or freedom of choice person that is educated would want to do when it comes to laws and rights in a free country.

Science has declared that the life in a mother;s womb is human.

Any arguments here?

Science has declared that this Human life while dependent on the mother for maintaining life is a separate human life.

Any arguments here?

Science declares that the Human life in the womb has a heart beat in 3 weeks and brain waves in six weeks.

Is there a difference from the infant outside the womb as the child depends on others for life?

The baby is a life that is dependent upon outside sources in order to keep him or her alive.

How would you describe Human life?

Now who has the right to take away this life if we truly believe in our democracy the "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Freedom comes with responsibilities and the protection of life is one of them.

You can yell fire in a crowded movie theater.

Even though we are free to choose to yell fire in a crowded movie theater there are repercussions on that action.

We will never stop the wrongs in life or the evil out there on this earth but a free society must have protection for the most vulnerable. If these protections are not there then we are nothing more than animals with opposing thumbs, no morals, and conscious to separate us from the rest of the animal world.
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You are soooooo right. And this society is becoming so very scary. At one time, we could trust most of society to do the moral thing. Now we/I question everyone, including family, friends and neighbors. Somehow, if these people do not have a respect for life I question their motives for living.
 
Dear BareKnuckler -

It seems you have made up your mind. I doubt there is anything I could say to change it. Still, I would ask you to look at perhaps the most disturbing anti-abortion photo I’ve ever seen. It isn’t a baby-meat-puzzle picture, either. On the whole, I don’t approve of those. Not because they’re not accurate but because they don’t get the right reaction. They reinforce the idea that abortion is merely a medical procedure - like tooth extraction or heart surgery - ugly, perhaps, but necessary.

Look at this picture, though:

priestsforlife.org/resources/photosassorted/LateTermAbortions/abortedbaby06.html

Now ask yourself, if this isn’t a child, if this isn’t a person, what is it?
Would it matter if her father were a rapist?
If my father were a rapist, should I be punished for his crime? Should she?

If this isn’t a child, what is it?

When I was a teen, I thought I knew much more about life than I really did. I don’t know so much anymore. One thing I have learned is that there is a difference between freedom and license. We don’t believe in blind obedience. Look at this little girl and see if you can honestly be blind to her humanity.

Would you know this was an aborted baby if I didn’t tell you?
Does it matter that I am a Catholic?
Would the picture look different if I were not?

If this isn’t a child, what is it?

Look at her and deny her if you can. Say to yourself “this is not a child” and listen to your heart. There is no need to obey blindly - open your eyes and look at her. Open your heart and look at her. Her humanity does not depend on the Church. The Church does not create truth, she only proclaims it. If the Catholic Church were to vanish, the Truth would still remain.

If today you hear his voice, harden not your heart. May God bless and guide you.
 
Cricket123 said:
Dear BareKnuckler -

It seems you have made up your mind. I doubt there is anything I could say to change it. Still, I would ask you to look at perhaps the most disturbing anti-abortion photo I’ve ever seen. It isn’t a baby-meat-puzzle picture, either. On the whole, I don’t approve of those. Not because they’re not accurate but because they don’t get the right reaction. They reinforce the idea that abortion is merely a medical procedure - like tooth extraction or heart surgery - ugly, perhaps, but necessary.

Look at this picture, though:

priestsforlife.org/resources/photosassorted/LateTermAbortions/abortedbaby06.html

Now ask yourself, if this isn’t a child, if this isn’t a person, what is it?
Would it matter if her father were a rapist?
If my father were a rapist, should I be punished for his crime? Should she?

If this isn’t a child, what is it?

When I was a teen, I thought I knew much more about life than I really did. I don’t know so much anymore. One thing I have learned is that there is a difference between freedom and license. We don’t believe in blind obedience. Look at this little girl and see if you can honestly be blind to her humanity.

Would you know this was an aborted baby if I didn’t tell you?
Does it matter that I am a Catholic?
Would the picture look different if I were not?

If this isn’t a child, what is it?

Look at her and deny her if you can. Say to yourself “this is not a child” and listen to your heart. There is no need to obey blindly - open your eyes and look at her. Open your heart and look at her. Her humanity does not depend on the Church. The Church does not create truth, she only proclaims it. If the Catholic Church were to vanish, the Truth would still remain.

If today you hear his voice, harden not your heart. May God bless and guide you.
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Are you sure thats a aborted baby?
 
BareKnuckler said:
Are you sure thats a aborted baby?
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Do you see the darkness on her skin? That is from saline burns. Saline is one of the many horrendous methods used to abort babies.

There are many more pictures of aborted babies if you are incredulous about this one. Go to the priests for life site. There is a link to pictures of many, many more innocent babes killed in the name of economy, or comfort.
 
Abortion is intrinsically evil, regardless of how the murder is performed: so-called humanely or horrifically bloody. The original post was to choose “freedom of religion” or “eliminate abortion”. This hypothetical web of deceit has gone on for five pages and serves no purpose but to confuse. Make no deal with The Liar.

Choose Lies from he who is Lies and live in the abyss of falsehood, uncertainty, and dispair.

Choose Truth from He who is Truth and live in the joy of Freedom, certainty, and hope.
 
Dear BareKnuckler -

I’m sure you know what my answer will be, but yes, she is a real aborted baby. She’s Baby Choice, killed in 1978 at about 18 weeks by salt poisoning and fairly well-documented. See also these:

priestsforlife.org/resources/photosassorted/LateTermAbortions/abortedbaby07.html

priestsforlife.org/resources/photosassorted/LateTermAbortions/abortedbaby10.html

As another poster suggested, you might look at the entire site, if you have the stomach for it. You might be surprised to see what it is you think you support.
 
Cricket123 said:
Dear BareKnuckler -

I’m sure you know what my answer will be, but yes, she is a real aborted baby. She’s Baby Choice, killed in 1978 at about 18 weeks by salt poisoning and fairly well-documented. See also these:

priestsforlife.org/resources/photosassorted/LateTermAbortions/abortedbaby07.html

priestsforlife.org/resources/photosassorted/LateTermAbortions/abortedbaby10.html

As another poster suggested, you might look at the entire site, if you have the stomach for it. You might be surprised to see what it is you think you support.
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salt poisoning? sounds akward, I’ll take a look at the links.

I am pretty sure I can stand it, I have had to help birth cows many many many times, and I have had to slaughter just about any animal that you can find in the state of Tennessee.
GodLovesTheSpek said:
Abortion is intrinsically evil, regardless of how the murder is performed: so-called humanely or horrifically bloody. The original post was to choose “freedom of religion” or “eliminate abortion”. This hypothetical web of deceit has gone on for five pages and serves no purpose but to confuse. Make no deal with The Liar.

Choose Lies from he who is Lies and live in the abyss of falsehood, uncertainty, and dispair.

Choose Truth from He who is Truth and live in the joy of Freedom, certainty, and hope.
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Yes, I am the Liar. I am also known as Lucifer by ye people of faith lol.
 
BareKnuckler,

Even if you take religious beliefs out of the debate abortion is logically unconstitutional (regardless of what some supreme court justices have said - wouldn’t be the first time the USSC has had to correct unjust rulings) based on pure medical science. I’d be happy to explain this in detail if you’re true intent is intellectual discussion as opposed to flame throwing.
 
stormcloud said:
BareKnuckler,

Even if you take religious beliefs out of the debate abortion is logically unconstitutional (regardless of what some supreme court justices have said - wouldn’t be the first time the USSC has had to correct unjust rulings) based on pure medical science. I’d be happy to explain this in detail if you’re true intent is intellectual discussion as opposed to flame throwing.
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lol I am not the one flame throwing, I am the one being called a liar for talking. PM me, if you like.
 
You are talking about two different things here:

If we are talking about only a “system” of government democracy, a pure democracy…then we can say yes…whatever the majority of people vote we are all subject too. So in one way you are right if today 51% want abortion…abortion it is. If in several years 51% want it another way that’s the way we go again. It wouldn’t just be this issue…it would be every issue that arose and then some. Like a ship blowing in the wind.

Can you imagine living in a household where everything was determined by only the views of the majority members (pure democracy)…decisions could be made at any time on power, emotion, mood, partnerships, personal desires, outside influences, whims, cultural trends, what the Jones are doing. The members of the household would be in flux and confusion with themselves and eachother on a continual basis. Resentments and injustices would be the constant current.

It is interesting though that you refer to Freedom of Religion, and America.
Now you are talking about a specific government and not the notion of pure democracy. We have an identity to our democracy…we are not a ship blowing in the wind. We have a course and a particular ship on the high seas. We do not have license to vote anything in existence into governance, that would be so scary no one would want that. The Constitution provides for the establishment of this democracy to provide and protect “life, liberty and (then) the pursuit of happiness.” So yes…if the Consitituion “chips away” or rather gives form and substance to democracy…I am for that, (and I think you are too)!

Now the Constitution does not protect life as a Freedom of Religion idea. It protects life as an unalienable, intrinsic right, and why shouldn’t it be. This is the whole basis of a noble government to protect the life of its constituents at all costs. Who lives and who dies is not something this democracy leaves to a vote.
Life is grave matter, and that is why in certain grave cases rape, incest and life of the mother, abortion was “reluctantly” allowed.

I would not agree with those exceptions (and not primarily on religious grounds although they are the most telling) but that is another discussion.I

In my opinion, when human life is not worth protecting at all costs, it doesn’t matter what form of government you live under in any part of the world.
 
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