question

[brierpatch1974]

I am still learning so here is another question. If original sin is passed down to everyone then how it not go to Marry as well. We see her as sinless but she was concieved the same was as everyone else. Only Jesus was Concieved from a virgin.

Please expalin this to me and let me know what I have wrong. I know my brain has this twisted somehow btu just cant figure out where exactly. Thanks again for al the help.

BP

 

[juhothenero]

I am still learning so here is another question. If original sin is passed down to everyone then how it not go to Marry as well. We see her as sinless but she was concieved the same was as everyone else. Only Jesus was Concieved from a virgin.

Please expalin this to me and let me know what I have wrong. I know my brain has this twisted somehow btu just cant figure out where exactly. Thanks again for al the help.

BP

Catholics believe Mary was also born from virgin… that pretty much explains it…

 

[tee_eff_em]

Catholics believe that Mary was preserved from original sin from the moment of her conception. This is the dogma of the Immaculate Conception. If you look for sources regarding that term, you will undoubtedly find a better explanation of it than I am prepared to give.

Catholics believe Mary was also born from virgin…

This Catholic has never heard of such a thing – Can you educate me please? Thanks.

tee

 

[Marc_Aupiais]

Aquinas- Her soul purified her body- hence- original sin was in the egg (perhaps of her mother, or mother’s mother, not sure), and the sperm if she had a father other than God, which I think is the case- but being a pure soul, the moment the soul was formed, the original sin was destroyed.

In fact- the virgin thing, on her mother, I think is incorrect, we believe her mother may also have had a special holiness though.

Also- Original sin is a lack of grace, not a positive thing, her immaculate conception is the restoration as the New Eve of a grace to avoid all sin, which was ensued in her soul.

So, her soul, was exempt by divine will and power from this or any sin.

 

[Marc_Aupiais]

scripturelink.googlepages.com/search?cx=001763116401597409521%3Af7idlv7awxw&cof=FORID%3A11&q=Imacculate+conception+of+mary+orginal+sin+more%3Aapologetics_and_evangelism&sa=Search

 

[Marc_Aupiais]

"We also note again that behind most of the objections was the rather positive notion of original sin. If we jump ahead several centuries to the clearer understanding of original sin we have now, we can remove this objection. Pope John Paul II epressed this understanding in a General Audience on Oct 1, 1986: “In context it is evident that original sin in Adam’s descendants has not the character of personal guilt. It is the privation of sanctifying grace in a nature which, through the fall of the first parents, has been diverted from its supernatural end. It is a ‘sin of nature’ only analogically comparable to ‘personal sin’”. In other words: It is only the lack, or privation, of that which God wanted us to have, which we should have inherited from our first parents.""
ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/marya2.htm

“We turn to the early Fathers of the Church. First, many, not all of them, make sweeping statements about her holiness. That could imply an Immaculate Conception. Secondly, very many of them speak of her as the New Eve. They could have reasoned: the first Eve had an immaculate start in life–no sin was yet committed. So the New Eve, who was to share in undoing the harm of original sin, should have also an immaculate start. However, none of the Fathers actually followed this line of reasoning. (A few Fathers even tried to find sins she had committed, e.g. St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on John 21. PG 59. 130ff).”
ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/marya2.htm

"During the middle ages, authors such as St. Bernard of Clairvaux and St. Thomas Aquinas denied the doctrine. At this time, the data from Scripture and the Fathers was still not clear. In addition, the understanding of original sin was not as clear as it should have been–it was often thought of as having a positive element, instead of merely being an original lack of the grace to which God calls us. This positive element was thought to be transmitted from parents to children through the marital act (which was itself thought to be somehow sinful, though pardoned by God), and so it was hard to see how there could be an immaculate conception. This conception had been found in some, though by no means all, of the Fathers. Now of course we know it to be false. Finally, it was not generally seen at this time how an Immaculate conception of Mary would not take away from the universality of redemption through Christ.

After a while, however, the theological tide began to turn, and the objections which had long obscured the content of divine revelation began to be overcome. This was due especially to the work of the Franciscan, Venerable John Duns Scotus. He showed that for God to preserve Mary from original sin was a greater redemption than to allow her to fall into it and then rescue her. Scotus wrote (cited from J. B. Carol, Mariology I, 368): “Either God was able to do this, and did not will to do it, or He willed to preserve her, and was unable to do so. If able to and yet unwilling to perform this for her, God was miserly towards her. And if He willed to do it but was unable to accomplish it, He was weak, for no one who is able to honor his mother would fail to do so.”"
ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/marya2.htm

 

[Seamus_Clarke]

I am still learning so here is another question. If original sin is passed down to everyone then how it not go to Marry as well. We see her as sinless but she was concieved the same was as everyone else. Only Jesus was Concieved from a virgin.

Please expalin this to me and let me know what I have wrong. I know my brain has this twisted somehow btu just cant figure out where exactly. Thanks again for al the help.

BP

Hi brierpatch1974 and juhothenero how are ye and everybody?. Well i think this was good question so when people look for the answer to this question we look to our faith and where can find info on the Immaculate Conception, so we as RC are very lucky to have the ture about it and it sad for Free Presbyterian Church and the other faiths see how are our lady mary is not trying make herself big or take away from jesus she only wants us to get closer to her son. and it can show us that god loves us humans because god could of just but jesus down from heaven and not go throw the same we do being born so you can see god used mary a human so that we can be like her and use her as role modle.

So we know the Church agree to the Immaculate Conception on the 8th December 1854. But in 1830 Our lady appers to St Catherine Laboure as she is the Immaculate Conception, so our lady ask her get medal made so she does and in yr lots great miraculous things happen when people wear it so that how it got it’s nick name how it is called the miraculous medal so before that it was called Immaculate Conception medal so we can see god want’s us know she was born without sin because before that it was all mad carzy ideas where coming up and goin out, with popes sayin she was born with original sin and some sayin she was born without sin etc. Even Dominicans and the Franciscans where fighting about it so god had clear it up once and for all. I like this story how Pope Pius IX said that it was in our doctrine today of Immaculate Conception.

The 8th December, 1854, Pope Pius IX was sitting upon his throne: a triple crown of gold and diamonds was on his head; silk and damask - red and white vestments on his shoulders; 500 mitred prelates were surrounding him, and more than 50,000 b people were at his feet, in the incomparable St Peter’s Church of Rome. After a few minutes of the most solemn silence, a Cardinal, dressed in his purple robe, left his seat, and gravely walked towards the Pope, kneeled before him, and humbly prostrating himself at his feet, said:

“Holy Father, tell us if we can believe and teach that the Mother of God, the Holy Virgin Mary, was immaculate in her conception?”
The Supreme Pontiff answered,
“I do not know: let us ask the light of the Holy Ghost.”
The Cardinal withdrew: the Pope and the numberless multitudes fell on their knees, and the harmonious choir sang the
“Veni Creator Spiritus.”
The last note of the sacred hymn had hardly rolled under the vaults of the temple, when the same Cardinal left his place, and again advanced towards the throne of the Pontiff, prostrated himself at his feet, and said:
“Holy Father, tell us if the Holy Mother of God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, was immaculate in her conception?”
The Pope again answered:
“I do not know: let us ask the light of the Holy Ghost.”
And again, the “Veni Creator Spiritus” was sung.
The most solemn silence, had, a second time, succeeded to the melodious sacred song, when again the eyes of the multitude were following the grave steps of the purple robed Cardinal advancing, for the third time to the throne of the successor of St Peter, to ask again:
“Holy Father, tell us if we can believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Holy Mother of God, was immaculate.”
The Pope, just received a direct communication from God, answered with a solemn voice:
“Yes! We must believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, was immaculate in her conception…There is no salvation to those who do not believe this dogma!”
And with a loud voice, the Pope intoned the Te Deum: the bells of 300 churches in Rome rang: the cannons/the citadel were fired.

So fri just gone the Priest said mass that St Ann mary’s mother was born from original sin would make sense because the son of god would have to come throw a pure and sinless person but St Ann and St Joachim would had sex like any marryed copples do so there was no sin there. So hope that helps ye with your Question and hope here from ye soon. God belss.

 

[rwoehmke]

We, except for Mary and her son Jesus, were all born with Original Sin. It is basically a condition of being born without sanctifying grace, which makes it possible for human beings to share in the life of the Trinity. We regain in Baptism this grace lost to our race by our first parents. Before Jesus’ passion and death this was not available to the human race. God in order to prepare a womb worthy enough for the son of God by a special dispensation applied the merits of Jesus’ passion and death to Mary in anticipation. So from the moment of conception she never had the spiritual defect of Original Sin.

Her parents egg and sperm had little if anything to do with the immaculate part of the conception. Jesus was conceived of the power of the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary without intercourse, but we do not speak of this as an immaculate conception.

Those righteous people in the Old Testament could not get into heaven without sanctifying grace and were placed in "the Bosom of Abraham, a sort of limbo until when after his death Jesus went there and released them to enter heaven.

 

[VociMike]

Catholics believe Mary was also born from virgin… that pretty much explains it…

No, we don’t believe that. What we believe is that God removed or prevented the burden of Original Sin from Mary at the instant she was conceived. It’s called the Immaculate Conception.

 

[ricko]

We, except for Mary and her son Jesus, were all born with Original Sin.

Actually there is a third person that was born without original sin, John the Baptist. Also Mary was not only born without original sin but she was conceived without it.

The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what “immaculate” means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings.

 

[juhothenero]

Catholics believe that Mary was preserved from original sin from the moment of her conception. This is the dogma of the Immaculate Conception. If you look for sources regarding that term, you will undoubtedly find a better explanation of it than I am prepared to give.


This Catholic has never heard of such a thing – Can you educate me please? Thanks.

tee

O sorry i misunderstood the term… sorry i am new to catholicism and don’t speak English on daily life, Immaculate Conception it is then

 

[Marc_Aupiais]

Always love humble brothers.
I am glad you are that sort.

 

[Leeann]

Originally Posted by juhothenero
Catholics believe Mary was also born from virgin… that pretty much explains it…

in reply:

No, we don’t believe that. What we believe is that God removed or prevented the burden of Original Sin from Mary at the instant she was conceived. It’s called the Immaculate Conception.

So many theories floating around…how confusing it must be for you all.

 

[iaskquestions]

If original sin is passed down to everyone then how it not go to Marry as well.

catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what “immaculate” means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings.

I heard Fr. Mitch Pacwa give a short but enlightening scriptural explanation for the basis of this belief.

bringyou.to/MitchPacwaBAM1991.mp3

It’s starts from the 43rd minute of this mp3.

 

[EmeraldWings]

on a non-doctrinal note, i think it was in Ann Catherine Emmerich’s books that i read that Mary’s parents did not conceive her like everyone else, that they conceived her how we would have if Adam and Eve did not sin…it makes sense and would explain alot, but it is *not *church doctrine and not required to believe…just thought you might be interested in that though.

 

[Marc_Aupiais]

Emerald wings, your comments here, almost always are interesting, in my expirience.

 

[Des]

So many theories floating around…how confusing it must be for you all.

You wish!

We only need to look to the Church to know the answer. Individuals who have poorly researched it may make it ‘appear’ confusing but that’s about all it does.

We do not interpret from a Bible only, that concludes with opposite views as you guys do bringing on confusion amongst the non Catholic Christians.

If we don’t understand, we have the explicit knowledge within the Church to help us out there.

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

With all due respect to those who have answered here, I think, based on this post, this is why it is so important for people who comment on Doctrine and Dogma, to have a solid understanding of what that Doctrine/Dogma IS.

Leeann: Please understand that there really IS a solid answer to this question, and that not everything posted on these forums is a solid answer. Most are opinions, and should be stated as such when the actual answer is not known.

This doesn’t mean that you won’t find good answers from posters - if you go back and look through the previous posts you will find that more than a couple of people were correct - but you must be careful with those who have good intentions, but little solid understanding.

Any questions you have concerning Catholic teaching can be answered by clicking on the ‘Library’ button found at the top of the page, and then brought here for further explanation if you wish. That way you will have a solid foundation to draw from - weeding out opinion from actual information.

Taken from here: catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

It’s important to understand what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is and what it is not. Some people think the term refers to Christ’s conception in Mary’s womb without the intervention of a human father; but that is the Virgin Birth. Others think the Immaculate Conception means Mary was conceived “by the power of the Holy Spirit,” in the way Jesus was, but that, too, is incorrect. The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what “immaculate” means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings.

When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.

The traditional translation, “full of grace,” is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of “highly favored daughter.” Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for “daughter”). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning “to fill or endow with grace.” Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence.

I hope this helps to clear up the matter.

Peace

John

 

[Randy_Carson]

Catholics believe Mary was also born from virgin… that pretty much explains it…

Mary’s mother, Anne, was not sinless.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Originally Posted by juhothenero
Catholics believe Mary was also born from virgin… that pretty much explains it…

in reply:

Don’t kid yourself…the Catholic Church is very clear and very precise regarding its doctrines. Individual Catholics might be confused, however.

On the other hand, Protestants appear to very confused regarding whether infants should be baptized, when the rapture occurs and whether Jesus is really present in the “Lord’s Supper”, etc.

Perhaps you might clarify these things once and for all for us?