Questionable churches in my area

[SecretBeliever]

Hi, I’m wondering if anyone could help me out with this problem. (Sorry if this is not the right area to post this, please move if necessary)

I’m a lapsed Catholic seriously considering coming back to the Church. There are two churches in my area, sort of equidistant. I’ve never been to either one of them yet, but I’ve checked out their websites.

One is starting a “Just Faith” group, which I understand has links to other organizations that do not promote sound Catholic teaching. Also, the new Monsignor who just arrived there has been involved in Call to Action according to his own bio.

The second church, in its bulletin, has an advertisement about the first church’s starting of the Just Faith group. And its pastor, in the bulletin, talked about contemplative prayer and saying a mantra of seven syllables as prescribed by his spiritual advisor. That sounds kind of new-agey to me. Also, the Sojourners group meets at this church which I have heard might be unfaithful to the Church’s teaching.

So what do I do? How much does it matter that these two churches promote these things if they’re the only two I have to choose from? If I do go back, I’d want the church to be 100% faithful to the Pope and Magisterium, and I don’t want to start going and commit myself only to find out that it isn’t.

I’d appreciate any words of wisdom and encouragement. I’m troubled and don’t want to lose heart. Thanks so much!

 

[doanli]

I would try out both of them and pray, pray, pray! Go!

If the Holy Spirit is calling you back to the Church, answer it–He will help you.

Keep in mind you are there for Jesus, and make sure the church has a tabernacle in your presence—keep Him in mind when you are in church.

Welcome home, btw! Hope everything works out and the churches are better than you expected!

 

[revert_jen]

So what do I do? How much does it matter that these two churches promote these things if they’re the only two I have to choose from? If I do go back, I’d want the church to be 100% faithful to the Pope and Magisterium, and I don’t want to start going and commit myself only to find out that it isn’t.

How much does it matter? Some, but definitely not enough to keep you from coming back home. Jesus Christ works in you through the Church that He founded, even if individual priests are sinners like the rest of us.

When I came back to the Church, it was through a parish that had some questionable teachings, and frankly I didn’t know enough at the time to even realize that they were questionable. But the priests gave me Jesus at every Mass when I was properly disposed, and I had access to the sacrament of Penance. You are not returning to one parish church or another, but to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Please don’t delay because of these kinds of issues. It’s been several years now since I came back, and it has been more worth it than I ever could have imagined when the Holy Spirit led me back.

It would be great if every parish church in the world were 100% faithful to the Magesterium, and maybe (after you’ve been back for a year or two and prayed a lot) you can be instrumental in helping your parish to be closer to that goal. But as long as the sacraments are valid, that is the most important part.

I’d suggest getting a catechism if you don’t have one, and reading through it a bit at a time, to counteract anything you might hear in a homily or whatever that is not correct. Also there are a lot of shows on EWTN (if you get it) that helped me, like The Journey Home, anything with Scott Hahn in it, and (after I’d been back a little while) Fr. Corapi’s Catechism class.

There will be times when it is hard if there are issues in the Mass where (e.g.) homilies are teaching things that aren’t true to Church teachings, or other issues like some of the priests leaving out “men and” from the Creed (although the congregation as a whole said the words) or even liturgical abuses. But it can give you an opportunity to exercise charity and patience if you ask God to help you with it. Sometimes I can remember praying before Mass: “Please Lord, let me get through just this one hour without committing any sins against charity!” That was a little painful. But since I came back, I have never considered leaving the Church again or regretted my decision in any way. Sometimes it’s been hard, but it’s always been worth it.

But in any case, it is possible that you won’t encounter any problems at all. Some parishes have different groups that are either more or less faithful to the Magisterium, and if there are groups meeting there that are less faithful, you can probably (at least at the beginning when you are still finding your feet) just ignore them altogether. The important thing is for you to be faithful to Church teaching yourself, and to return to the practice of the sacraments.

God bless you and I will pray for you!

–Jen

 

[SecretBeliever]

Thank you both for your encouraging replies…I really appreciate it! I’ve been reading different threads today, though, and found one that had this link:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=458780&highlight=Just+Faith+Program

Well, I started reading that one, and it started freaking me out all over again. Gosh, that’s all I need is for me to finally go back to the Church, and finally get my husband to consent to go with me, only to find out that they promote this kind of stuff. He’d get angry and really reject the Church. Then I’d be set back all that much more.

:bighanky:

 

[revert_jen]

Thank you both for your encouraging replies…I really appreciate it! I’ve been reading different threads today, though, and found one that had this link:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=458780&highlight=Just+Faith+Program

Well, I started reading that one, and it started freaking me out all over again. Gosh, that’s all I need is for me to finally go back to the Church, and finally get my husband to consent to go with me, only to find out that they promote this kind of stuff. He’d get angry and really reject the Church. Then I’d be set back all that much more.

:bighanky:

Fear not!

I certainly wouldn’t advise attending JustFaith. But it does sound like parishes can implement it in a good way if they try, so I wouldn’t assume that any parish that so much as mentions the program in its bulletin is going to be having problematical homilies at all the Masses.

Anyway, you go first. See what it is like. I am afraid it’s the “down below” folks that are putting these fears in your head, in hopes of keeping you away from the Eucharist. In fact, what you seem to be saying is, “This parish has a message in its bulletin about a program at another parish that I have reasonably convincing (but by no means 100% certain) information that says it is promoting heretical books and ideas that are not in line with Church teaching. This might upset my husband if I managed to convince him to come to church with me, so I won’t go to church.” I know that general frame of mind, because I’ve definitely been there, but if you read it all together like that, you can see the non-sequiturs in it.

So go to confession. Absolution works the same, whatever the views of the priest. Then go to Mass and receive the Eucharist. Then decide whether it would be helpful to talk your husband into attending. But you keep going, either way. Plus, being in a state of grace will help you make better decisions. The grace of the Eucharist will sustain you throughout the week, even if the homilies are weak or annoying. I spent years at a parish where, as far as I could tell, the point of every homily was, “Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone was nice? So be nice.” It was annoying, but it helped me grow in the virtue of patience (with which I still need a good bit of help).

–Jen

 

[SecretBeliever]

Jen, LOL, when you put it that way it does seem kind of silly. But thanks for validating my fears, “I know that general frame of mind, because I’ve definitely been there” sometimes I feel like everything I do or say is silly. Well, I’ll try to get my courage together and give it a try! Later…

 

[The_Old_Medic]

You can use any excuse that you choose to stay away from the Church. The Devil will be more than happy to assist you with that.

If you think some group, or some teaching is evil, then by all means stay away. After all, you HAVE to accept everything that every Priest puts out there, don’t you?

I just can not help but wonder at the myriad of reasons people come up with for their failure to worship. You can justify just about anything, if you try hard enough.

 

[SecretBeliever]

Old Medic,

Yes, that’s part of what I’m struggling with. Knowing I should return to the Church, but not being very proactive about it, well, I’m not happy with being like that, don’t get me wrong. I guess mainly what I’m looking for here is moral support and just a chance to voice some obstacles that I’m sure people who have “been there, done that” could relate. You’re right; I’m beginning to understand where this reluctance is coming from. I’m trying to fight it.

 

[SimonDodd]

It seems to me that you’re doing fine. You have a desire to attend, and you’re trying to remove obstacles from doing so. You recognize that there are some potential bear traps in both parishes, and you’re concerned enough to raise the question. These are all healthy. Awareness that someone is involved with a heretical group like CTA will help you be on notice that you need to parse what they say. Only if those concerns become an excuse for attending neither, as Old Medic warns, rather than a healthy anchor in orthodoxy will they be a problem.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

Beware of the Pharisees in your midst.

Calling something a “heresy” is a very easy way to avoid dealing with some uncomfortable truths. There is more than one way to “skin a cat”, and there is more than one way to learn about the truths of Jesus and the Church.

If the Church itself has not labeled a movement at being a “heresy”, you certainly have no right to do that. Please, show me, or refer me to the Church Documents that label the movements you cite as being “heresy”.

I happen to be a rather conservative Catholic myself. BUT, I recognize that what I find to be spiritual is not what everyone finds to be spiritual. To some people, a Tridentine High Mass is a bunch of gobble-d-gook, that they can not and do not understand, and they find nothing particularly worshipful about it. To me however, it is one of the most beautiful worship services ever devised by man.

Be very, very careful about labeling anything as a “heresy”. You can say that it is not to your taste, but you have no real way of knowing if something is, or is not, heretical. Not unless it has been labeled, officially, by a Bishop of the Church, as being a heresy.

I found the “Kiss of Peace” to be highly objectionable when it was first introduced. BUT, in fact it is one of the earliest known parts of what we today consider the Mass to be. It was written about in the 2nd Century, as something that Christians did among themselves, so that they would never approach the “Last Supper” in anger toward one another. That put this into a very different perspective.

Many of what we consider to be rituals that are locked in stone, really are not. They are more habits, or things that we were taught by someone that really didn’t know what they were talking about, than anything else. Things such as: Some people make the sign of the cross immediately after receiving communion. But where in any book of liturgy is that recommended, much less required? Yet I know people that firmly believe that to NOT do that is to show a lack of reverence for the Eucharist.

Or how about saying a rosary during Mass? Lots of people do that, but in fact it is strongly discouraged by the Church. It is discouraged because it detracts from ones concentration on the Mass itself. In fact, any prayers that are not an integral part of the Mass should not be done during the Mass

Far too many people get caught up in the externals, and forget about the fundamental truths of the church. That is not the Holy Spirit at work, it is the Devil. Instead of looking upon people that do things differently than you do as being heretical, try thinking that just maybe, they could be closer to the spirit of Christ than you are.

After all, Jesus broke just about every rule for an observant Jew that there could be. He worked on the Sabbath, he ran around with prostitutes and tax collectors (the lowest of the low). He obviously enjoyed a party (look at all that water he turned into wine). There is very little in the Gospels to suggest that he was a sober, stern person. Try getting small children to relate to you being like that.

So, instead of thinking about how evil others are, look for the mote in your own eye for a change.

And stop making excuses for judging others, something that we are specifically told that we should not do.

Before you claim something is heretical, prove to us that YOU are without sin. Otherwise, don’t be casting your stones at others.

 

[SimonDodd]

Medic,
Call to Action’s website explains that their “vision” includes the view that “the priesthood is open to … women….” Now:

• Heresy is “the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same.” 1983 C.I.C. 751; C.C.C. ¶ 2089; accord John Gooch, The [Tridentine] Catechism Expanded 31 (1851) (“the choosing of one’s own opinions contrary to the doctrine of the Church” when such opinions are “h[e]ld wilfully and obstinately”).
• Those things are to be believed by divine and catholic faith include, as canon 750 reminds us, those things “proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn Magisterium of the Church, or by its ordinary and universal Magisterium, which is manifested by the common adherence of Christ’s faithful under the guidance of the sacred Magisterium. All are therefore bound to shun any contrary doctrines.”
• Ordinatio Sacerdotalis proposes as divinely revealed that the Church has no authority to ordain women to the priesthoot. We know, both because scholars and the Vatican have said so, that this teaching is binding (and may well have been—though it need not be so for present purposes, cf. 1983 C.I.C. 748 § 3—given ex cathedra), and its authority is plainly within the ambit of canon 750.

We can now walk back through these checkpoints. CTA’s position necessarily entails a rejection of Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, which in turn necessarily entails a rejection of a teaching which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, which in turn is the textbook definition of heresy. (The obstinacy and wilfully prongs are satisfied by the time elapsed since Ordinatio Sacerdotalis during which they have persisted in rejecting it.) Therefore, a position core to CTA’s identity is heresy, and, to the extent the group exists to promote that position, CTA is a heretical group.

Their vision statement has many lagoons under whose surfaces, one suspects, heresy lurks. Nevertheless, my comment is amply justified by this one point. That I am a sinner and unworthy of the grace offered by the Lord our God through the cross does not, in any way, diminish this point. You are entirely wrong that we “have no real way of knowing if something is, or is not, heretical”; as has been shown, the criteria are objective and while their application to some situations may be tricky, others are quite straightforward. If a person is a self-professed gnostic, we need not await an episcopal determination before concluding that they’re a heretic. And you are utterly wrong to suggest that only one who is without sin is in a position to recognize error or heresy; if that were true, nothing could be branded heresy because no one would be qualified to wield the iron.

 

[SecretBeliever]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for your references to the Catechism which provides some background to some of CTA’s beliefs. Also, if I remember, either CTA or JF has some sort of connection to people who don’t think that homosexual marriage is wrong, etc. which I believe was spelled out in the thread I linked to earlier. So there has to be an objective definition, presumably by the Magisterium, as to what is heresy and what is not.

Medic, it seems like what you are saying is “judge not” but I think that means specifically to take it upon yourself to determine if someone is going to hell or not. I don’t think that is what Simon is saying here; it looks like he is pointing out that whatever organization is promoting these beliefs or lets them be promoted by its members would be a heretical organization. Seems to me that there is a great difference between these two concepts.

Of course I’d not participate in these groups’ activities should I return to the Church; but to have them advertised like there’s nothing to be cautious about does not seem right. And like I said, if I were to convince my husband to come to church with me and he found out about these two organizations, well, the consequences of that would definitely not be right.

I just noticed that the guy Jack J (can’t remember his name) the founder or whatever for JustFaith is speaking in a town near me which also is being advertised in one of the church bulletins.

The other churches around me are kind of far away, which is a reason why we’re not going to the Lutheran church we’d been going to. It wouldn’t do well for me to encourage us to go to a far away Catholic church if he doesn’t want to go to a far away Lutheran church. Sigh…I keep praying…

 

[revert_jen]

Medic, it seems like what you are saying is “judge not” but I think that means specifically to take it upon yourself to determine if someone is going to hell or not. I don’t think that is what Simon is saying here; it looks like he is pointing out that whatever organization is promoting these beliefs or lets them be promoted by its members would be a heretical organization. Seems to me that there is a great difference between these two concepts.

That’s exactly right. I started to write a response to Medic along those lines, but it kept coming out wrong so I gave it up.

We are not allowed to judge the state of someone’s soul. We couldn’t possibly know it.

But none of us could make it through a day without judging anything at all. The cardinal virtue of prudence involves showing good judgement. And if we weren’t allowed to make any judgements about whether something was heretical or not, how could we be protected from heresy’s dangerous influences?

Of course I’d not participate in these groups’ activities should I return to the Church; but to have them advertised like there’s nothing to be cautious about does not seem right. And like I said, if I were to convince my husband to come to church with me and he found out about these two organizations, well, the consequences of that would definitely not be right.

However, this still sounds a bit like excuse-making. JustFaith may be better than either you or I think it is. Or if it’s not, the people writing the bulletins may not be consulting Father about everything they put in. Or either the bulletin people or Father may just be mistaken about JustFaith. If you refuse to attend a parish where someone on the staff is mistaken about something, you will never return to the Church.

And you REALLY need to return, especially since you seem to know that the Church is the one church founded by Christ.

If you’re anything like me, you want to put it off, because it will require changes you don’t want to make–perhaps changes where you aren’t even sure what they are yet. Maybe you are worried that by attending Mass, you are headed down a long road where you and your husband are not making the faith journey together any more. Maybe you’ve been using artificial birth control and you don’t know how you can possiblty deal with the issue if you are a believing Catholic and your husband is not. Me, I didn’t know whether I’d be able to get an annulment (I was divorced), so I might have been sentencing myself to never going on a date again, and given the ages of my grandparents when they died, that might have been several decades (possiby six) with no dating.

I was lucky, but it is entirely possible that whatever fears you have are justified. It doesn’t change the fact that St. Augustine was right: “Our hearts are restless until they rest in You.” I think you’ve made it clear that your husband will not go back if you don’t. So really you have nothing to lose. You going to Mass (even if it ends up being far away) and your husband not going to Mass is unfortunate, but not nearly as bad as neither of you going.

So why don’t you just attend Mass a few times–even if you’re not comfortable going to confession yet, so you can’t receive the Eucharist. Just attend Mass, find out what issues there are (if any), and then deal with those issues. Do not try to imagine what issues there might possibly be and come up with ways of dealing with them all before going back. It’s a waste of time.

No excuses!!

–Jen

 

[SecretBeliever]

Hi Jen,

Yep, you’ve p(name removed by moderator)ointed some reasons why I might be dragging my feet. You said, “… because it will require changes you don’t want to make–perhaps changes where you aren’t even sure what they are yet. Maybe you are worried that by attending Mass, you are headed down a long road where you and your husband are not making the faith journey together any more.” Exactly! That’s one of the two things you mentioned that hit home in my situation.

It took us some years to hash out the decision to even go to the Lutheran church (he grew up Baptist). Now he is gung-ho for the Lutheran church, although he said the other night (maybe the beer helped ), “I’m Catholic with a capital C! but there are a few doctrines they have that I can’t believe in. I’m not Protestant with a capital P.” Then he mentioned Purgatory and I tried to explain it to him but he said it’s a man-made doctrine. He started talking about how it’s not in Scripture and then about “letting Scripture interpret Scripture”… That’s a Calvinist doctrine anyway isn’t it? I bit my tongue and didn’t say anything about what I consider man-made Protestant doctrines. I feel like he might be warming up to things (he’s even got a book by Cardinal Newman, and he really likes Chesterton!), but if he got wind of some organizations that promote things contrary to the Catholic (and Lutheran as well, for that matter) teachings he might just run away. BTW, also you said something about the possibility of the staff making mistakes or not consulting Father etc. Well the person on the staff who is in charge of Social Teaching (or whatever her title is called) is the one instituting this Just Faith thing. So yeah, I guess I’d consider that a mistake. But I’ll allow for the possibility that she isn’t totally aware of the “bad” stuff that exists in their background. Now as far as the new Monsignor with his having participated in CTA; well I’ve got no way of knowing what he thinks about it now.

Second thing–you also said, “Me, I didn’t know whether I’d be able to get an annulment (I was divorced), so I might have been sentencing myself to never going on a date again,…” Well, I went one step worse than you–because I am remarried already and still would need the annulment. I’m pretty sure I’ve got a good case, but it’s really a scary thing to both try to get my husband to go to a Catholic church, and then say, “Oh by the way I have to get an annulment so we have to live as brother and sister in the meantime”!!! Anything that seems like legalism to him will really turn him off.

Anyway. I sooo appreciate your encouragement, thank you!–you also said, “And you REALLY need to return, especially since you seem to know that the Church is the one church founded by Christ.” I do believe that. I can see the big picture of how there was so much more happening in addition to what was simply written down in the Bible, even though I know it is truly inspired. I have read bits and pieces of the Early Church Fathers’ writings (they’re hard to understand sometimes!) and I don’t see any Protestant-only teachings in what I’ve read. I totally agree with the need for the Church’s authority. I’m not sure that my husband does.

 

[qui_est_ce]

:wave:Hi Revert Jen and Secret Believer-
Thanks for posting here. I have trouble myself with some of the stuff that goes on in my parish, like people substituting gender neutral words for He and His, etc.:tsktsk: I go to daily mass, which is very quiet, so this sticks out like a sore thumb. It’s usually a nun who sits right behind me that does it. You have reminded me that it is more important to be charitable. Instead of being irritated by it tomorrow morning, I’ll say a quick prayer for her every time she does it.

Having said that, I would never let anyone keep me away from my One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church! It’s not about the priest, it’s about Jesus in the Real Presence and the Sacraments.

You never know who you’re going to help!

God bless.

 

[SecretBeliever]

Hi Qui est ce,

So a nun actually uses gender neutral terms. Yeah, I could see where I’d get irritated at that pretty fast. Could you try to sit somewhere where she isn’t in earshot? You’re right about going for the Eucharist not the priest. It’s hard to shake the Protestant type mindset about the emphasis on the minister; whether he preaches well or not, etc. The Lutheran church we were going to has a Bible study led by the pastor, before the service, and we’d stopped going to that before we stopped going to the service altogether. My husband just didn’t think it did anything for him, and of course I wasn’t comfortable with it anyway. So it seems that he is not too impressed by that pastor anyway. But he hasn’t actually been saying anything about wanting to find a more dynamic pastor so to speak, so maybe he’s getting over that mindset somewhat. Me, I remember attending Mass with my friend when we were kids (I started out a Lutheran) and couldn’t understand anything the Priest said anyway! So I guess I could say, for me, it’s not all about the minister. However, I do realize the influence the priest has upon what is taught, or not, at the church. Like at Church#2 (see above) the priest talking about saying a 7-syllable mantra as advised by his spiritual advisor? So the parishioners could really get drawn into this if they’re not careful. It’s really hard to cope with the post-modern weirdness all around me these days, without having to encounter it in church.

 

[qui_est_ce]

"Secret Believer:

Hi Qui est ce,

So a nun actually uses gender neutral terms. Yeah, I could see where I’d get irritated at that pretty fast. Could you try to sit somewhere where she isn’t in earshot?

It’s a 6:30 AM mass, it’s very quiet, only about 30 people. If ONE person does it, everybody hears it. It irritates our priest too (we have the same one every morning). He told me to offer a prayer. Sadly, nuns these days are the worst. Some of them are downright gaia worshippers. But that’s a whole nother topic!

You’re right about going for the Eucharist not the priest. It’s hard to shake the Protestant type mindset about the emphasis on the minister; whether he preaches well or not, etc. The Lutheran church we were going to has a Bible study led by the pastor, before the service, and we’d stopped going to that before we stopped going to the service altogether. My husband just didn’t think it did anything for him, and of course I wasn’t comfortable with it anyway.

What didn’t you like about the Bible study? We have some awesome ones at our parish. The last one we did was Jeff Cavins Bible Timeline. It took us a year to finish the 24-part series.

So it seems that he is not too impressed by that pastor anyway. But he hasn’t actually been saying anything about wanting to find a more dynamic pastor so to speak, so maybe he’s getting over that mindset somewhat. Me, I remember attending Mass with my friend when we were kids (I started out a Lutheran) and couldn’t understand anything the Priest said anyway! So I guess I could say, for me, it’s not all about the minister. However, I do realize the influence the priest has upon what is taught, or not, at the church. Like at Church#2 (see above) the priest talking about saying a 7-syllable mantra as advised by his spiritual advisor? So the parishioners could really get drawn into this if they’re not careful. It’s really hard to cope with the post-modern weirdness all around me these days, without having to encounter it in church.

Have you actually attended mass at either of these parishes? You might find their homilies to be quite orthodox. Pastors come and go on a regular basis, the parish is what’s left. Once you become part of the parish, you can start and adult faith group. The Archdiocese can help you with programs and study materials.

Good luck, and welcome to CAF. Keep coming back!

 

[Barbkw]

I’m a revert and share your need to be 100% Catholic. Good on you for knowing about Call to Action and various fringe groups!

What’s the deal with those festering inside groups? Too prideful to accept that they actually are Protestants. When I decided to be my own God, I left the Church. Why can’t they be that honest?

Lucky us, here in NE, our bishop excommunicated members Call to Action:

“In 1996, Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of the Diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska issued, under certain conditions, an automatic interdict, (which escalates after one month to an automatic excommunication), on members of several organizations within his diocese, including Call to Action.”

The agenda of the women priests is so sad, just another group of angry feminist who think men have dumped on them.

About the priest situation & groups being formed at the two Catholic Churches. It’s a tough thing, having to confront people who need an attitude adjustment when they are they ones who are supposed to be your leaders.

I love EWTN, and when I asked my priest about passing out EWTN brochures he said he didn’t agree with EWTN’s spirituality. Ugh. LOL

We got a new priest recently, 25 years ordained, and at Christmas he had two men come in and perform a Christmas play. My "gay"dar went off during the play and after some internet searching, I found that those two men are members of Dignity. Dignity as in advancing the noncelibate homosexual lifestyle.

What does a person do?

 

[qui_est_ce]

I love EWTN, and when I asked my priest about passing out EWTN brochures he said he didn’t agree with EWTN’s spirituality. Ugh. LOL

I’ve heard that from priests too. I don’t get it. Just remember, it’s not about the priest.

We got a new priest recently, 25 years ordained, and at Christmas he had two men come in and perform a Christmas play. My "gay"dar went off during the play and after some internet searching, I found that those two men are members of Dignity. Dignity as in advancing the noncelibate homosexual lifestyle.

What does a person do?

Find some good qualities and try to focus on them. A reflection I read a while back asked me to find what qualities Jesus died for in in a person I don’t like. That was an eye opener and humbler for me.

 

[SecretBeliever]

Hi all,

Well Qui, it’s too bad that your priest can’t say something in private of course, to the nun that does that. (couldn’t he?) I think that all the nuns whose convents have degraded into Gaia worship should all be cleaned out of the Church IMHO.

The Bible study we were going to at the Lutheran church was led by the pastor, and it was 1) boring and 2) sometimes a doctrinal difference of opinion between the pastor and one “pillar of the church” kind of guy who sometimes tends to put people off. So that’s why we stopped going, it was kind of uncomfortable too in that when we offered our (name removed by moderator)uts it kind of felt like Pastor just sort of brushed over it. Now a Bible Study like you mentioned, that would be great!

I haven’t gone to mass at either one of the parishes yet, I was going to their websites to “scout them out” to see if I’d find anything that I did end up finding. But you’re right Pastors come and go on a regular basis. And that’s a good idea about starting your own adult faith group–one that is 100% faithful.

BTW my name is Christine too, good name eh?

Barb, I remember reading the story about Bishop Bruskewitz–and the brand new Monsignor doesn’t mind mentioning that he was involved in CTA! See, that’s what I mean. Yeah, I watch EWTN whenever I get the chance (like when I’m home alone!). The only time my husband thinks I watch it is when we watch Chesterton on Sunday nights. I wonder if the new Monsignor at Church#1 or the mantra-reciting priest at Church#2 “agrees with EWTN’s spirituality”… And yeah, wow, I’ve heard of “Dignity”…what was your priest thinkin’? Scary…

The community where I live is Liberal in general, so that’s why I thought I might check out the churches before jumping in. But again, like Qui said, it’s not about the priest!